Mainstream defamation case dismissed ...

This is why I am not being paid by anyone to stand up for salmon farms. I simply do not have the will to wade through massive reports like the one Charlie post above just to make a few small quotes that at the end of the day to support his stand point directly or not. Its fine and dandy to do that but in all honesty I am not impressed.

Ah yes, the eternal "Hear no evil" excuse. Birdsnest, Charlies is a scientist and therefore a seeker of truth, You clearly are not so qualified and so are unwilling/unable to read and understand scientific evidence and papers. That is why Charlie is right and you are wrong. Charlies comes by his opinion reading all the evidence. Lots and lots of evidence.

You come by your opinion by indoctrination, refusal to accept or even read the mountains of evidence and your own unfortunate reliance on this nasty job.

And your complete puzzlement at the motivations of Charlie and and others on here to oppose salmon farms is very telling. Protection of the environment transcends economics, but I now know you don't get that at all. You keep looking for ulterior motives when there is none, other than a desire to see healthy runs of Wild Pacific Salmon.

We will one day see the demise of open net pen salmon feed lots, and humanity will look back on this era and say - how could they have been so stupid!!
 
Agra marine. Ha ha. I cant believe you posted that. Agra Marine is a complete FAIL. You cant see this. You should becouse we all paid for a large portion of that company. We did learn somethings from it though. Do you have money invested in that. If you do not then I have an in for you. The share prices took a real HARD dive last year. You should get in on it. lol

Sweetspring on the otherhand in a bit more interesting. I never said it isn't happening it just will never meet the demand or be a vialble solution. So lets get over closed containment. YOu may as well just say you want salmon farms gone and not follow up with a solution so to seem reasonable. It just isn't an option. Stop tricking people into thinking it is. So where are these migration free area's???

Lorn I think you are a nice fella but in all honesty I would leave it to charlie. He is trained and practiced in this debate and he will out due myself by a bombardment of links, supposed facts, and information that I have for the most part gone though already and have done my absolute best to understand. I just am not willing to do it again against charle for he will always be here more than willing to post and re post and repost to fight his cause or, perhaps do what he is paid to do. I will not take the time to go up against him and I really do not have the talent. I can't disprove a consperiacy theory. No one can.
 
Agra marine. Ha ha. I cant believe you posted that. Agra Marine is a complete FAIL. You cant see this. You should becouse we all paid for a large portion of that company. We did learn somethings from it though. Do you have money invested in that. If you do not then I have an in for you. The share prices took a real HARD dive last year. You should get in on it. lol

Sweetspring on the otherhand in a bit more interesting. I never said it isn't happening it just will never meet the demand or be a vialble solution. So lets get over closed containment. YOu may as well just say you want salmon farms gone and not follow up with a solution so to seem reasonable. It just isn't an option. Stop tricking people into thinking it is. So where are these migration free area's???

Lorn I think you are a nice fella but in all honesty I would leave it to charlie. He is trained and practiced in this debate and he will out due myself by a bombardment of links, supposed facts, and information that I have for the most part gone though already and have done my absolute best to understand. I just am not willing to do it again against charle for he will always be here more than willing to post and re post and repost to fight his cause or, perhaps do what he is paid to do. I will not take the time to go up against him and I really do not have the talent. I can't disprove a consperiacy theory. No one can.

My point was to show the technology exists. The only reason your counter parts havent failed is because the governement keeps dumping money into them. Everytime they have an outbreak they get compensated. There is no risk to the fish farming industry. Everything goes well, they get paid. Everything goes to **** and they need to cull a million fish. no problem the government will bail us out from that. Its funny you say we all paid a large portion for that company(agri marine). Where do you think the millions come from when you have diesase outbreak which kills off 700,000 fish, then you apply for compensation? tax dollars. and it makes me ******* sick!!!

Heres a good read for yah

http://www.wcel.org/resources/envir...dollars-subsidize-bc-unsustainable-fish-farms


As far as where are the migration free areas? thats the point. They dont really exist. Therefore the farms shouldnt be in the ocean. One thing is for certain, it will never be a viable solution as long as the government doesnt force it to be. There is sooo much evidence that they are detrimental to our coast and our fish. Yet thats not enough. It will take a MASSIVE kill off, like what happened in Chile before people wake up. Sadly, it will probably to late by then.

I have asked this many many many times. And have yet to recieve an answer. What benefit (other then a few hunderd jobs and a few thousand spin off jobs) does the fish farm industry do for BC both envriomentally and economically.


Whether you choose to answer that or not is up to you, but im done. You are the vast minority. Ironic you are one of the main guys on the tuna sportfishing. Now theres group of fish that are far out of harms way from your disgusting industry.
Lorne
 
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I do not see how my tuna fishing is ironic. I have fished salmon for many years. The thrill is gone for me. Tuna fishing is what I have a current passion for now. I would have fished salmon this year but it just never really turned on so however you want to make me look like a bad person for that well...fill your boots. You are welcome to be easily upset about the bailout but it is a common practice for pork beef and chicken and more. It is a mechanism that help protect the public from situation like tainted beef. But you cant even get sick from eating an IHN salmon so maybe your right. It certainly does help get the salmon out of the water fast and that I feel is what you are interested in most. I sorry you are so sick all of the time. I hope you can feel better some day.

What happened in chile? Well chile was greedy and had to many sites that were over stuffed with fish and they almost all died at once causing big problems for the economy. NO wild salmon were lost there. Yes that did happen in chile but you will see that they have made drastic changes to their practices. Funny how those apposed like the "what happened in chile" thing and when explaining the story always fail to mention that there were no wild salmon in chile. The only massive die off was the farm fish. There is much more to that story but the bottom line is chile did not have certain safe guards in place to prevent this from taking place. Canada on the other hand has always protected itself from that situation over there.

In your eyes you see me as the vast minority. Ya I am just one person. I certainly do not pump myself up here and talk as if I am the absolute majority and i have millions of Canadians backing me word for word. I think that is silly especially in this format.

BC salmon farming creates millions tax revenue dollars that go back to bc. Get rid of it and you may as well pick a couple of schools or hospitals to close as well. It s that basic. Farm salmon have certainly taken the pressure off the wild stocks. There is no denying that. What would happen if there were no salmon farms. The price would sky rocket, poaching would be rampant and alaska would bask in the profits off their nasty butt sea ranching practice.
 
I do not see how my tuna fishing is ironic. I have fished salmon for many years. The thrill is gone for me. Tuna fishing is what I have a current passion for now. I would have fished salmon this year but it just never really turned on so however you want to make me look like a bad person for that well...fill your boots. You are welcome to be easily upset about the bailout but it is a common practice for pork beef and chicken and more. It is a mechanism that help protect the public from situation like tainted beef. But you cant even get sick from eating an IHN salmon so maybe your right. It certainly does help get the salmon out of the water fast and that I feel is what you are interested in most. I sorry you are so sick all of the time. I hope you can feel better some day.

What happened in chile? Well chile was greedy and had to many sites that were over stuffed with fish and they almost all died at once causing big problems for the economy. NO wild salmon were lost there. Yes that did happen in chile but you will see that they have made drastic changes to their practices. Funny how those apposed like the "what happened in chile" thing and when explaining the story always fail to mention that there were no wild salmon in chile. The only massive die off was the farm fish. There is much more to that story but the bottom line is chile did not have certain safe guards in place to prevent this from taking place. Canada on the other hand has always protected itself from that situation over there.

In your eyes you see me as the vast minority. Ya I am just one person. I certainly do not pump myself up here and talk as if I am the absolute majority and i have millions of Canadians backing me word for word. I think that is silly especially in this format.

BC salmon farming creates millions tax revenue dollars that go back to bc. Get rid of it and you may as well pick a couple of schools or hospitals to close as well. It s that basic. Farm salmon have certainly taken the pressure off the wild stocks. There is no denying that. What would happen if there were no salmon farms. The price would sky rocket, poaching would be rampant and alaska would bask in the profits off their nasty butt sea ranching practice.

I am fully aware of what happened in Chile and how greed was the common denomator. Whats happening here is no different, and just a matter of time. Mianstream/cermaw are continuing to grow and make applications to expand every year. Our governemnt doesnt not care at all for the envrioment. and this is why people like morton are so important. You dont have to look much further the Enridge proposal to see that. IF our government is more then willing to run a pipeline through 1000 river and streams, and put tankers on our coast in the name off profit, forgive me for for being a bit uneasy that we have the "protections in place" to ensure that doesnt happen here. What you are having trouble getting as well, is IF that were to happen here, those Norwiegn comapnies would leave us high and dry, and move to someone elses coast. We would be left with no jobs, and no fish.

Ive said numeroous times, im not anti salmon farming, for the same reason you mentioned. I am anti open pen.

How humerous, a fish farmer calling sea ranching "nasty"

I also love the " get rid of fish farming you mid as well get rid of a couple of schools and hospitals"

I Have now seen everything.

Lorne
 
I did read you link lorne and after the first paragraph I started looking for the donate button. Sure enough I found it at the top right hand corner of the page. That speaks to me loud and clear.
 
Birdsnest, you keep making so many wrong and unsubstantiated comment based on the stuff you have been fed as the “faithful” feed lot church follower, I cannot keep up with it. Here is one:-

Farm salmon have certainly taken the pressure off the wild stocks. There is no denying that. .

This is a classic lie perpetrated by the salmon feed lot industry!! Salmon feed lots actually add to the pressure on fish stocks because you cannot get something for nothing!! Salmon are carnivores. On average it takes two to five kilograms of wild fish (used in feed) to produce one kilogram of farmed salmon.

Here are the sources to prove it.
http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/sa...almon-farming/
http://www.bellona.org/aquaculture/a...Feed_accounts/
http://wcwcvictoria.org/154/salmon-farming-background/


And a quote from the following:-
“Skretting states that 2.02 kg of fish is used to produce 1 kg of salmon( in norwegian only). Environmental organisations are also interested in alternative feed ingredients, and WWF has done its own calculation of FIFO on its Norwegian website. They state in their calculation that 3.024 kg wild fish is used to produce 1 kg of farmed fish.
http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/...h-farming-feed

“Salmon production requires huge amounts of fishmeal - an estimated 4kg of wild fish is needed for every 1kg of farmed fish produced. However, the ecological impacts of fishmeal production and the consequences for communities who are losing sources of fish for themselves, has left many to question whether it is sustainable.

The salmon we produce is eaten by the mouths of people in the USA and Europe, but the asshole is here in Latin America,’ Jean Carlos Cardenas of Ecoceanos told The Ecologist. ‘The true cost of the cheap salmon you eat is being paid with the blood of our people and the health of our oceans.’”
http://www.theecologist.org/News/new...ntroversy.html

And this quote is pretty damning too!
“Many of the fish stocks used as feed - mostly anchovies, pilchards, mackerel, herring, and whiting - are already fished at, or over, their safe biological limit. So instead of relieving pressure on the marine environment, aquaculture is actually contributing to the overfishing crisis that plagues the world's fisheries.

To reinforce this, quite fortunately there is a completely independent path to arrive at the same conclusion. For the year 2008 approximately 2.3 million tonnes of salmon were produced worldwide (FAO ftp://ftp.fao.org/fi/stat/summary/summ_08/b-1.pdf) Again, assuming 1.2 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of salmon this means 2.76 million tonnes of salmon feed were produced. With 17% of salmon feed being fish oil this equates to the capture of 9.4 million tonnes of feeder fish. Thus, the global FFDR for salmon production is 4.09.”
http://www.verlasso.com/conversation...ild-fisheries/

What would happen if there were no salmon farms. The price would sky rocket, poaching would be rampant and alaska would bask in the profits off their nasty butt sea ranching practice.

You are twisting things again. The current demand is there because of “cheap” feed lot salmon. If there were no feed lots the prices would adjust to the demand and the demand would adjust to the price. No one “needs” salmon. People would transfer their eating habits just as they have always done.
And as we know feed lot salmon is not really “cheap” because it comes at a huge environmental, ecological and economic cost all of which is borne by others and “off the books” of the feed lot company owners. This industry is the classic evil travesty because it holds out the seductive promise of cheap food, while all the time exploiting and polluting the environment without having to pay for or be accountable for any of the real costs.
 
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Wild salmon conversion is far worse than farm salmon. This is one of the problems with the alaskan salmon ranching. How is closed containment going to solve your data on the use of feed???
 
Wild salmon conversion is far worse than farm salmon.
I don't have a number for this. It may or may not be true. However, the natural food chain does not have the huge carbon footprint of processing and shipping all the thousands of tons of fish feed from the "strip mined" South American oceans so that rich North Americans can eat "cheap" fish.

This is one of the problems with the alaskan salmon ranching.

The North Pacific obviously has a carrying capacity. However, the natural world has checks and balances. Create more salmon as "prey" species and there will be more seals, orca's and other predators to restore the balance. Salmon feed lot owners just shoot marine mammals to preserve the profits, regardless of consequences.

How is closed containment going to solve your data on the use of feed???

Is is not and that is why keeping carniverous fish like salmon in pens is NOT sustainable. The only sustainable fish aquaculture is that which can be supplied from locally obtained, mostly vegetable based feed, like tilapia or similar.
 
What a mess...... Well Birdsnest, thanks for at least taking the time to explain your opinions and write back to people. I've never heard someone back salmon farms before let alone hear it from a fellow sport fisherman. I still find it almost impossible to accept that you truly don't think there's anything wrong with the salmon farming industry. I'm sure they've made improvements over the years as you claim but I think that only minimizes damage and not even close to an acceptable level. The open net pen salmon farms are literally an ongoing science experiment, with the environment paying the price for all the mistakes. From my own personal experiences I find the industry is very shady with lots to hide, which is actually easy to accomplish because most farm sites are out of sight and out of mind from the average joe. I know that you know that farmed salmon stomachs are packed with salmon fry every year in the spring....... I watched all the fry jumping around as they migrated north this past spring and it made me sick to my stomach thinking of how many thousands must just end up as free feed for ATLANTIC salmon.

Anyways, I'm scared for the future of wild salmon....
 
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Are the moderators OK with this language? Just asking as I have not seen swearing permitted on the other forums I frequent (FlyBC, FWR)

Got nothing to add except "im telling"? maybe you should go to those forums and spew your BS because its not going to fly.
 
Are the moderators OK with this language? Just asking as I have not seen swearing permitted on the other forums I frequent (FlyBC, FWR)
Dave I am sure you drive many to use language that they might not otherwise use. You should not be offended and nor am I.
Why don't you just stop posting and reading this site if the language bothers you.
From what I see of your posts, you clearly support fish farms for reasons known only to you, despite their dismal record elsewhere.
In my opinion, if we don't stop open ocean fish farming of Atlantic Salmon in our waters, it's only a matter of time before the BC fish farms repeat the tragic results experienced elsewhere.
Would you like to share with us exactly how many Atlantic salmon you have lost to disease this year on the West Coast??
The number is so high you and your owners are considering or have already gone to our Government to ask for financial support...how sick is that!!!
Why would anyone in their right mind support fish farms and take the risk that comes along with them, unless it is, as probably in your case, for personal gain!
I see you say you grace two other sites Dave with your self serving rhetoric. How much support have you managed to muster?
 
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Abandond fish farm...one of many

Dave is this one yours.....
The fish farms such as this are simply abandoned when struck with disease. double click the image to help you recongize it.
044.jpg
 
Dave is this one yours.....
The fish farms such as this are simply abandoned when struck with disease. double click the image to help you recongize it.
View attachment 5034

I think this is a photo of a roe and kelp setup. That is a commercial license number with the name of a vessel attached to it. This type of fishery is usually done by natives. I would not say it is abandoned. Salmon farm systems are far too valuable to just abandon. It just does not happen. There was a scallop farm here out of tofino that was completely abandoned about 12 years ago. It went bankrupt and the whole system was just left to rot. It covered an area about 1/2 square kilometer and had mile of rope and hundreds of floats just left there. Nobody ever said anything.

Anyways this may be an photo of the Haida Girl noted on the license that is obviousely a seine boat which is used for roe and kelp fishery. It is likely that that equipment is just there for storage. If it is aboandoned please let me know. That stuff is worth alot of money and I do know how to sell it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephen_rees/4596994590/
 
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By the way I believe the wild conversion is 10 to 1 but that is wet to wet not dry to wet like the 1.2 to 1 that us salmon farmers use. So there is no confusion.
 
The photo in my earlier post is from the Octopus group on the east coast of VI and you are right...it may not be a fish farm and certainly not one of the big producers...it is however an example of the many abandond sites around our island from one project or another!!
The point I make is the big fish farms are not by law required to dismantle or account for the sites they are not actively using.
Sorry if I misrepresented the photo.
 
I would not call it abandoned. I think It is part of a commercial/native fishery and the system is likely in a safe place for use come next season. Again if it is abbandoned, and I am cetain it isnt please let me know. It will be well worth my while to go and clean up that pile of crap.!$$$$$ Farms do not have to dismatle their systems between cylces. The flotation has to be stored somewhere. Sites go through a fallowing period where it will not be used for 18 month or so until the bottom recovers. (jump on that one some one). Yes recovers to an acceptable pile of poop.

The point I make is the big fish farms are not by law required to dismantle or account for the sites they are not actively using.
Sorry if I misrepresented the photo.
I do not think that is the case. That site is a gold mine for the company. They will be accountable for it. They need it.
 
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