Letter To Hardy Bros----Am I Dreamin About Potential Market For This Reel?

[Sharphooks]

After reading the complaints about SeaKing Reels "making too much noise" I started thinking maybe I'm dreaming about the potential market for this reel in the Pacific Northwest.

Whatever, I am addicted to a loud scream when I hook a fish (after a dozen hot steelhead on the Skeena last week, each one on a century old Hardy reel with a REALLY LOUD ratchet, I just want MORE of that noise...)

anyway, read on and feel free to disillusion me with your comments that there ain't no market for this type of reel because of the NOISE (or any other reason you can think of):

QUOTE

Hardy North America,
1260 Corporate Drive,
Lancaster PA. 17601

OCTOBER 07, 2013

Good Day Gentlemen,

I am a sportsfisherman residing in the Pacific Northwest. I have an extensive Hardy Bros. fishing reel collection, including Hardy Brass-Faced Perfects, Hardy Longstones and Hardy Eddystones. All of my reels are continually used either on the river or in the salt water---they do not sit in cabinets.

Although I am an avid steelhead fly fishermen, I also fish for Pacific salmon. The reels I use the most often for salt water applications are a pair of Hardy Eddystones. I love these reels dearly.

Reason: the lever-controlled check systems are extremely efficient when the reel is used in downrigger applications (a downrigger as you are probably aware, is used for fixed-depth trolling with lures or bait )

The Eddystone is wonderful when used in such a manner---the large arbor affords rapid line retrieval; the click pawl is both effective as a check system and as it is LOUD, it makes for an exhilarating battle when fighting a salmon (the reason I also love the Hardy Brass-Faced Perfects)

I write to you for a specific reason--- the Eddystones are HUGE and quite HEAVY. To spend the day placing them in a rod-holder then taking them back out to fight a fish when the line is under tension is physically demanding. To use these reels in such a manner over a two week period (as I did this past summer) is physically exhausting.

With the above in mind, I would like to suggest that Hardy Bros. seriously consider re-issuing the Hardy Eddystone, however, with the following design modifications:

1)) SIZE: Reduce the size and weight The 15 cm arbor could be reduced to approx. 10 cm. You should maintain the approx. 5 1/2 cm width of the arbor to allow for sufficient line capacity but the overall diameter of the spool should be decreased by 30-40%

2)) CHECK LEVER: For downrigger applications, the newly design Eddystone should have a check mechanism that can be fully engaged once the rod is placed in the holder and placed under tension against the line clip at the bottom end of the downrigger cable. The lever should be made so that there is a lock position and an unlock position

Currently, there is no way to hold the spool fixed when under tension---the click pawl is not strong enough to do this and the check tensioning nut cannot be wound sufficiently tight to hold the spool motionless when the line is under tension. Indeed, even if one could use the check tensioning nut , once a fish is hooked one would not be able to loosen the nut fast enough and the fish would pull free or break the line...

I would like you to consider how I currently address the tensioning of my Eddystones when the rod is placed in a rod holder:





You can see the heavy-duty length of surgical tubing attached to the butt of the rod just above the check lever. Once the rod is in the holder and I am fishing at desired depth with the line clipped in place at the bottom end of the downrigger cable, I slip the loop of surgical tubing over the lever to hold the spool motionless. When I hook a fish, as I reach for the rod to pull it out of the holder I simultaneously slip the loop of surgical tubing off the lever with my index finger

Not very elegant but it gets the job done.

I have three rods that I use in my boat---all of them have this loop of surgical tubing attached to the rod butt. I use plastic wire ties of the sort electricians use to stabilize cable and wire.

Here is another picture that illustrates the surgical tubing application when the rod is under tension in the rod holder






Please consider the following:


I am taking the time to pen this correspondence because I would dearly like to keep using the Eddystone in my salt water fishing but I long to do so with a smaller lighter version. I am convinced that there is a market for a smaller, lighter, re-designed Eddystone that employs the same check-lever mechanism, but includes a locking feature for downrigger application as described above.

The number of people using downriggers in a saltwater application for salmon is quite large---they are in California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia and Alaska (as well as the Great Lakes ---Michigan etc)

Most people use what is known as a bait casting reel (level wind reels) for downrigger application. However, there is a growing number of fishers who favor single-action reels with rim-controlled check systems for both downrigger fishing and for what is called "mooching" (drifting with the tide and fishing a cut-plug herring) (example = Shimano moocher reel, Islander MR3, Abu Garcia's SeaKing reel etc)--these reels, especially the Islander, have developed a strong following for both these applications.

I am convinced that a redesigned Eddystone, downsized and fitted with a mechanism that could both lock and unlock the lever check system would sell quite well in the Pacific Northwest market.

I sincerely look forward to hearing your comments regarding the above suggestion. I am most interested to hear if you would consider moving forward with this re-design suggestion. I stand willing to help in any manner I can to help promote the redesigning and reissue of the Hardy Eddystone .

Thank you for the considerations and time

Sincerely

UNQUOTE


So, am I dreaming that there'd be a market for this reel?

My interest in writing the letter was purely selfish----I approached a reel manufacturer and he said he needed 5 years (and a couple of thousand $$) to build the reel ----he's booked solid with other reels he's making which explains the 5 year waiting period

So I'm hoping Hardy can do this in Korea and knock off a couple of thousand of them so I can get a pair for myself

What say you??? Lets focus the demand or lack of demand on the rim control, lever drag, huge line capacity part of the equation for this type of reel----the Eddystone has a switch that allows you to disengage the ratchet to make it SILENT for those that don't like a hysterical scream when they hook a fish...

 

[SophiaB]

Id buy one. or 3. But I would like you to take me on your trip to the central coast with your dog so we can try them out.

 

[Saxe Point]

I could not agree more - a fantastic idea. I own a few Hardy fly reels and their "noise" when a fish is on is music to my ears. My 16 year old son now understands as well and loves the music. There is none better.

 

[Rum Buddies]

what's wrong with the longstones? I guess I'm not understanding why you want the lever mechanism for trolling?

 

[Saxe Point]

what's wrong with the longstones? I guess I'm not understanding why you want the lever mechanism for trolling?

After posting, I remembered the Longstones. But in the end, a mooching reel with the Hardy click is what counts. The drag system need not be anything fancy - my $60 Daiwa M1 Plus has a fine one, and I expect it's nothing like an Able or an Islander. But it's more than enough. The click is the thing.

 

[Sharphooks]

I use a Longstone and love that reel. But the knob is too small to tighten (then unloosen once you hook a fish) in an efficient manner. I covered the knob in epoxy and mixed wood chips into the epoxy and let it cure--that helped with the "gription" but it's still not in the same class as the Eddystone lever system that can engage or or disengage the drag on your fixed spool in a New York heartbeat

I also fish alone 99% of the time---that lever in combination with the exposed spool of the Eddystone is the ticket when fishing bigger fish while alone; plus, the Longstone doesn't have the line capacity once you amp up to 30 lb test mono

 

[Saxe Point]

I use a Longstone and love that reel. But the knob is too small to tighten (then unloosen once you hook a fish) in an efficient manner. I covered the knob in epoxy and mixed wood chips into the epoxy and let it cure--that helped with the "gription" but it's still not in the same class as the Eddystone lever system that can engage or or disengage the drag on your fixed spool in a New York heartbeat

I also fish alone 99% of the time---that lever in combination with the exposed spool of the Eddystone is the ticket when fishing bigger fish while alone; plus, the Longstone doesn't have the line capacity once you amp up to 30 lb test mono

So does the lever lock the spool completely or do you apply pressure to it as a substitute for palming the spool? Just trying to understand how it works.

 

[Sharphooks]

The Eddystone has 3 separate drag or check systems: exposed rim on the spool, tension nut on the spindle, and the drag lever. The lever applies gradual to complete drag depending on the amount of pressure exerted on the lever with your trigger finger---once the loop of surgical tubing is slipped over the lever for DR applications it freezes the spool---just tight enough to apply tension on the rod tip--a firm take down from a fish is enough to pull line off the spool when "frozen" in place by the surgical tube loop











The lever is great for fighting fish when they're in close and you're netting your own fish, though when fishing long rods (I use a 12 foot Sage) I usually lay the reel down on the deck and fight the fish while holding just the tip of the rod with one hand and the net with the other. IF the fish is still green and takes off, the exposed rim of the spool is in contact with the deck and this promotes enough drag to prevent backlash of your line (the biggest problem with single action reels) as well as slowing the fish down

The rod on the deck thing sounds goofy but I've been fighting fish like this for years when using rods of 9 feet or longer ---it works fine and I've never broken a rod. Way more risk of breaking a long rod when high-sticking and trying to net at the same time

 

[Rum Buddies]

I just don't get it? What's wrong with just backing the drag way off and using your palm as the drag, why do you want a lever? And when its time to net the fish just add enough drag so the reel doesn't freespool and net your fish, not sure I would want to purposefully use my floor as a drag system - not good for the reel or the floor.

But hey, whatever works for you and gives you the feeling you want. I prefer to use the drag just to stop the line coming off while trolling, once the fight is on its a free spool and my palm playing the fish - all about that direct connection IMO.

 

[Sharphooks]

Operative phrase known and recognized by fishermen all over the world:

...."But hey, whatever works for you and gives you the feeling you want..."

 

[tulameentrapper]

My buddy is working with Ryobi on building a mooching/centerpin reel based on their lever drag fly reel. I've seen the prototype and I was quite interested. It was a 3:1 gear ratio, so the line really retrieves fast. It will have a very nice lever drag system as well. Once they come to market, I'll most likely have a tester to try out.

Here is the fly reel that the design will be based on.

http://www.ryobi-intl.com/ew/cpny.asp?ID=365

 

[Rum Buddies]

Operative phrase known and recognized by fishermen all over the world:

...."But hey, whatever works for you and gives you the feeling you want..."

like junkies chasing the next fix...

 

[rovingfisherman]

"Feel free to disillusion me"....I think you need to let this go, from your posts dating back a few years on these reels, you're obviously just a little hung up on this for reasons only you will know. Maybe an underlying childhood memory? lol. The reel was only made for a couple of years in the the early 60's, and probably for a reason. You like the concept of a lever drag system and a cool sounding ratchet, I get that but the your description of the process you go through to try and achieve that is, well...strange and yes it all "sounds goofy". I hope something comes along that satisfy's your needs and makes your fishing less work and more enjoyable but I don't think Hardy will be calling in the patent makers and engineers on this one. Just my opinion from the outside looking in, no disrespect intended.

 

[GDW]

I can't see much of a market for it besides hardy addicts and fishing gear collectors. Like many others I can't picture why a regular joe would want a lever drag on a mooching reel for salmon fishing.

You'd have better odds contacting islander of trophy and asking them to make a model with a really loud clicker.

Hardy owners are maybe a bit like Harley owners. Too caught up in the sound to notice there are superior products for less money they just don't sound as cool. BUT good on you for making your vintage gear work use whatever gives you the most enjoyment and I hope hardy does at least give your idea some thought.

Next summer ill have to get some springs on my vintage peetz rod/reel they have loud clickers - should be a blast.

 

[Sharphooks]

yeah, maybe I need to join a support group for antique Brit reel addiction.

I went through a similar frothing at the mouth stage back in the mid-80's--- I had a huge collection of Hardy Super Silexes back in those days. I didn't fish bait so I used them as fly reels. On a large Fraser tributary I learned that if you fished a floating line on a Super Silex and clicked the free-spool lever, you could float dry flies down a 200 yards stretch of river and with a long enough rod, you could come back and stick a fish when it boiled at the fly even when it was so far away from you you could barely see the boil.

Started doing that on the Skeena and was amazed at how effective it was for fall run steelhead. Perfect drag-free drift, it drove the fish nuts. Sometimes they'd boil five times at the fly before getting pinned.

I thought of writing up these experiences in trade mags but worried that maybe too many people would start getting interested in Super Silexes and eventually, it would drive up the price and cut into my collection habits. So I shut up about it.

Then in the late 90's I approached Sage, told them they should consider doing a Hardy Super Silex knock-off as people were finally starting to figure out that big steelhead would come up for a fly presented on top (sort of like the Atlantic salmon guys had figured out four decades ago).

Sage's response: we could produce a thousand of those reels and maybe, just maybe, sell a dozen....

So there you have it: one man's obsession is just another man's bored yawn....

I got the ratchet scream obsession. No doubt. Maybe a bit like Harley guys have to hear that throaty exhaust sound, even though the cylinders are puking oil.

It got so bad I started carrying a tape deck in a knapsack on the river and pinned a microphone to my fly vest. When I hooked a smoking unit I'd turn on the tape deck and tape the anguished shriek the fish produced on my Hardy collection. Then that night, back in my camper, I'd have a few drinks and replay the tapes over and over again.

One year I submitted an article to a steelhead mag, positing a theory that if you had enough tapes made of shrieking Hardy reels, you could eventually build up a library of steelhead symphonies--- by analyzing the decibels of each shrieking run, you could develop a catalogue of genetic strain differences by the sound alone. You know, a Dean fish sounds like this and a Chilcotin fish sounds like that....

The editor of the magazine politely declined my article, indicating there wouldn't be a reading public for such a thing.

He also politely suggested that maybe I wasn't carrying a full string of fish to have come up with such an idea....

So maybe I should forget the Eddystone thing.

Or maybe I shouldn't...

 

[bub]

Let me know if you want to sell any of your brass faced perfects!!!! I have a few hardys..., The loudest is the 1912 check..imo., But I haven't heard too many 1906 checks..., Great idea on the mooching reel..., but you won't be able to duplicate the sound simply because of the metal used in the check mechanism of a salt safe reel. I fish with all kinds of click pawl reels and they all sound different. The new ones that are salt safe have a "tinny" sound...,again because of the stainless and other materials used. Unfortunately the hardy growl you get from the perfects,uniqua's, bougle's.... and so on can't be done salt safe....Even the hardy ocean prince fly reel is a "softer" sound... I share your obession!! Thanks for the enthusiam of this thread!!!

 

[Sharphooks]

hey Bub

Nice to see there's a fellow fanatic out there! Ya, the 1906 pawls are huge and the sound is LARGE. All my Brass Faced Perfects are 1906--- here's a picture of half my collection: 4 1/2", 4", 3 3/4", and 3"



If I sold any of them my daughters would shoot me...sorry...not for sale (of course when I croak they'll have them on eBay lickety split...ha ha)


Those Hardy Perfects are on my mind right now--- I got two fish last week up on the Skeena system that were off the charts; one on my 3 3/4 " Brass Faced and one on my 4" Brass Faced. Both fish were hooked at the top of a Class IV rapid (big part of a river, steep, with 4 foot standing waves piling down into a canyon.) The first fish immediately took off into the 4 foot standing waves. Before I could even get out of the water she had 100 yards of line on me. By the time I was on the beach she easily had 200 yards of line. I thought I was going to see the knot of my backing --- first time that's happened to me for many years!! But the SOUND I heard throughout all that line peeling off my reels--unreal!!! I had an ear to ear grin. So I take a quick pic of her, let her go, step back into the water where I was after the frantic run down into the canyon and WTF, it happens all over again!!

This time with a sink-tip on my 3 3/4" Brass faced Perfect: immediately the same thing happens---200 yards of line off my reel and into the river... an uninterrupted shriek that had to have lasted two straight minutes. Unreal! They weren't huge fish (12 - 14) but they were wet and wild and I just happened to have hooked them right where you'd want to be with an old REALLY LOUD Hardy.

I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's nice to hear from someone who understands the joy of that noise!

Here are some pix. Sorry this thread has gotten off course....but maybe just a few clicks to the right from where it started...

3" Hardy Brass Faced Perfect



4"



4" Hardy Super Silex




3 3/4" Perfect with line guard



3 1/2" Perfect




3" Perfect




NONE of these reels go into salt water---you know the aluminum was sand-casted and it melts like butter with ANY kind of oxidation.

Here's the backside of one of my Hardy Eddystones---makes a man cry to see what the salt water does to that aluminum...

But you're right-- it's precisely that old-style construction that makes the sound so off-the-charts when the clicker pawl gets rubbed the wrong way by a pissed-off spring!

 

[bub]

WOW!!! those are some stunning perfects!!! I haven't seen a 3" that mint! I love that you still fish them. I would too. The 33/4"uniqua is a 1912 check on 12' 6/7 cane spey and a little fish from last week. and the other is a 1912 perfect with line guard 4" made by Chris Henshaw who is affiliated with Hardy..., This reel is #35. Let me know if you would like more pics of that one's innards... No pedigree but stunning nonetheless. Thanks again for this thread. I don't come on this site that often anymore..., but this was a wonderful surprise!!!

 

[dss]

Sharp hooks check out mikes reel repair in Van. I bought their improved tension nut for my logstone this year and love it.

 

[Sharphooks]

Yo daa---that's a hot tip. Thanks!

Got out on the water this morning and brutalized myself with the Eddystone --I got a fish, but after a couple of hours with the Eddystone I switched over to the Longstone---what a relief---gotta love the weight difference between those two reels ---with a half-decent tension nut I'd use the Longstone more often (and a Longstone doesn't make a fish look so puny when you take a picture of it the way that giant slab of Eddystone does...ha ha )