Int'l Pacific Halibut Commission Annual Meeting - Victoria, Mon thru Fri

[Jencourt]

"Round Round She Goes"

Why are we circling this issue on a thread that was intended to keep us informed about the IPHC meeting and TAC discussions?
This thread topic stops having any relevance to what you guys are debating after a number is given. Other than the decision made as to what area 2b will receive for an overall TAC, it has no bearing on allocation or a utilization of that allocation.

As I see it and has been mentioned the amount allocated to whom and the choices for finding the best way to utilize it are a separate issue and can only be speculated until a number of other issues are cleared up. The first of which in my opinion is the end decision of TAC from the IPHC in witch this thread is intended to keep us informed of.

 

[ziggy]

"Round Round She Goes"

Why are we circling this issue on a thread that was intended to keep us informed about the IPHC meeting and TAC discussions?
This thread topic stops having any relevance to what you guys are debating after a number is given. Other than the decision made as to what area 2b will receive for an overall TAC, it has no bearing on allocation or a utilization of that allocation.

As I see it and has been mentioned the amount allocated to whom and the choices for finding the best way to utilize it are a separate issue and can only be speculated until a number of other issues are cleared up. The first of which in my opinion is the end decision of TAC from the IPHC in witch this thread is intended to keep us informed of.

I think it is keeping us informed. I personally don't find it too distracting when people other than those at the meeting post, but if I did.....

 

[scott craven]

I think thats because most west coast lodges are only open for 3-4 months and that time period falls right in the middle of their season.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Clearly Jerry doesn't run a lodge or charter operation then...

 

[Governor]

Commissioners heard reports from the Conference Board (CB) and the Processors Advisory Group (PAG) mtgs this morning. I should let you know CB approved several bycatch focused motions aimed at the 10 milion pounds of Alaska bycatch that really needs to be addressed before it really hurts all of our fisheries.

One important and noteworthy update is PAG approved a motion on catch limits yesterday that differed from the Conference Board's motion (which I reported on yesterday) Regarding Washington/Oregon 2A and Canada 2B, the PAG recommendation is less, requesting 0.90 million pounds for 2A and 6.22 million pounds for 2B respectively :-(

Interestingly, one of the Commissioners asked CB and PAG to see if they could reach a catch limit consensus between the two boards. A potentially divisive undertaking. There is some interest around the CB table to discuss the issue with PAG, but I can say clearly there is NO will or appetite in the CB room to move from yesterday's almost unanimously approved catch limit motion, where Cda (2B) would receive 7.04 million pounds (if approved by the Commissioners). We'll see how it all plays out.

The politics of fish continues ...

 

[medherring]

Closing July and August is not a realistic option. Most people vacation in July and August because the weather is best and the kids are out of school. Halibut being open in Nov/Dec/Feb/March/April doesn't do much good for most of the BC coast besides Victoria because the weather isn't good enough to fish in on a consistent basis. Try shooting offshore in 3-4 meter average seas with SE 15-20 knot winds. The slot did not work, same length season as 2011 with the same TAC. Re allocation of TAC to the the sport sector is the only real option. When Alaska's commercial by catch has a greater allocation than BC's sport sector, we have a problem.

 

[scott craven]

"In my limited expereince Lodges seem to be open only in the summer months. If you could book halibut charters in march, april and may, september and October when the spring fishing is slower would this not be benefical to your business"

It's weather related, winter storms prevent lodges from opening on the open west coast
many have to tow their lodges from safe harbour and the off season is too unpredictable.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Last year we were 7.5 mill lbs not 7.04 no? I probably messed something up. I'd like a season the same as last year, so hopefully we can get to that 7.04 or 7.5. 6.22 is up from what they were originally asking, but not enough. Keep up the good work Governor

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Anybody know the catch proportions by month?

 

[Governor]

Last year we were 7.5 mill lbs not 7.04 no? I probably messed something up. I'd like a season the same as last year, so hopefully we can get to that 7.04 or 7.5. 6.22 is up from what they were originally asking, but not enough. Keep up the good work Governor

2012 IPHC Catch Limits​

Regulatory Area	Catch Limit (pounds)​
Area 2A (California, Oregon, and Washington) Non-treaty directed commercial (south of Pt. Chehalis) Non-treaty incidental catch in salmon troll fishery Non-treaty incidental catch in sablefish fishery (north of Pt. Chehalis) Treaty Indian commercial Treaty Indian ceremonial and subsistence (year-round) Sport - North of Columbia River Sport - South of Columbia River Area 2A total Area 2B (British Columbia)(includes sport catch allocation) Area 2C (southeastern Alaska) Area 3A (central Gulf of Alaska) Area 3B (western Gulf of Alaska) Area 4A (eastern Aleutians) Area 4B (western Aleutians) Area 4C (Pribilof Islands) Area 4D (northwestern Bering Sea) Area 4E (Bering Sea flats) Area 4 total	173,216 30,568 21,173 321,650 24,500 214,110 203,783 989,000 7,038,000 2,624,000 11,918,000 5,070,000 1,567,000 1,869,000 1,107,355 1,107,355 250,290 5,901,000​
Total	33,540,000​

Serengeti - All Canadian commercial and sport fisheries reps on the Conference Board want to see 7.04 accepted in 2B by the Commissioners too. The fishery figures and set-line survey figures are indicating to many here that Canadian waters were not being over fished at 2012 levels, so it is low risk to seek status quo for 2013. The flip side to that argument is ... if we over fish in 2013, leading to lower the stock status figures at the end of the season, we might have to take a much bigger hit the next year.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Oh ok, that'd be nice for sure. Even at 6.6-6.7 you'd be looking at an april-Sept long weekend season no?

 

[Derby]

Guys keep this thread to IPHC Meeting stuff and questions relating to the subject... Open another thread if you want to talk about cutting the pie up ect.....

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Hmmm, seeing as I opened this thread to discuss both the IPHC decisions and results as well as the "cutting up the pie" mistakes made last year, as per my initial post, not sure why some are suggesting limiting the thread from the original intention? Not opposed to it, necessarily, just saying ...

 

[GDW]

Your forgetting the overall TAC in 2011 was higher then 2012 yet we had the same season length. That tells me the slot did help a little - but obviously not much. I think 1/2 would burn quota much faster though the average size probably (hopefully) will not go down next season.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Nope, not forgetting that at all, GDW. If you look at the first post, the estimate is that in 2012, which had the same season length as in 2011, the rec sector exceeded our TAC by 6.5%. The 2011 TAC was not 6.5% larger than the 2012 TAC if my memory serves correctly.

Those facts notwithstanding, given the estimation error inherent in the creel surgery/overflight methodology of estimating harvest and effort for the Rec sector, statistically speaking the 2011 and 2012 TACs were identical for the purposes of both forecasting and in season estimation. That's one of many draw backs to having such an inaccurate accounting of Rec harvest.

So, yet again the answer is the same - the slot regulation simply didn't work and quota was "burned" no faster with the 1/2 no slot regime in 2011.

 

[searun]

Your forgetting the overall TAC in 2011 was higher then 2012 yet we had the same season length. That tells me the slot did help a little - but obviously not much. I think 1/2 would burn quota much faster though the average size probably (hopefully) will not go down next season.

Thank you, exactly what the slot accomplished. I know its not a popular topic, but is correct. If we go with a pure 1 and 2 we will burn through the tac poundage quicker than by using a slot limit. I don't need to hire a consultant to figure that out. The advantage of the slot is it gives anglers who are out for more than a single day another option to retain something on day 2+ of their trip.

As for closing July/August, if you look at the catch data by month those are the highest months for recreational catch...clearly someone is enjoying the resource then, so it makes absolutely no sense to close it then if your motivation is to find solutions that benefit most anglers. Pushing the hali season to early and late months only benefits Victoria where weather permits an early season. You can't get out to fish off shore in other locations that are more exposed...that's why July and August are very important months in places like Ukee. We get more stable weather patterns during those months as a general rule.

If I only gave a crap about my area we would press for a season that started in June and ended in 3rd week of Sept...but that would kill the Victoria fishery and frankly would be wrong.

It always comes down to a balancing act trying to find a solution that provides the most benefits to the majority of anglers and fishing locations along our coast. Highly complex problem.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Wrong once again Searun. See my previous post that addresses the numbers in 2011 and 2012 - once again the result is clear that the slot had no effect whatsoever. No matter how many times you say it, the numbers don't lie - the slot reg did not work and in fact was doomed not to work from the get go as anyone with any experience with slot limits could have told you.

I suppose I shouldn't get my hopes up that I'll ever be able to convince you to stop denying that the slot simply didn't work and, in a 1 under 1 over possession format, was not/is not the proper tool to effect the changes it was intended to.

 

[searun]

Its not hard to grasp. You can't simply say the seasons were exactly the same length and the total catch was almost identical. You have to drill down a little deeper to see that the average size of each fish caught in 2012 was larger than in 2011. Ergo, if we had a 1 and 2 limit catching those same larger fish the season would have ended sooner. But maybe I'm just a simpleton.

 

[searun]

If the regulation was 1 and 2 any size, and the average size of landed fish was larger in 2012 than in 2011 and we are limited by a similar TAC until season closes...under a 1 and 2 regulation we would have hit the finish line quicker. The second fish under the slot was smaller, therefore keeping the total pounds caught lower. Its not about how many fish are caught, its about how many pounds.

 

[Derby]

Thank you, exactly what the slot accomplished. I know its not a popular topic, but is correct. If we go with a pure 1 and 2 we will burn through the tac poundage quicker than by using a slot limit. I don't need to hire a consultant to figure that out. The advantage of the slot is it gives anglers who are out for more than a single day another option to retain something on day 2+ of their trip.

As for closing July/August, if you look at the catch data by month those are the highest months for recreational catch...clearly someone is enjoying the resource then, so it makes absolutely no sense to close it then if your motivation is to find solutions that benefit most anglers. Pushing the hali season to early and late months only benefits Victoria where weather permits an early season. You can't get out to fish off shore in other locations that are more exposed...that's why July and August are very important months in places like Ukee. We get more stable weather patterns during those months as a general rule.

If I only gave a crap about my area we would press for a season that started in June and ended in 3rd week of Sept...but that would kill the Victoria fishery and frankly would be wrong.

It always comes down to a balancing act trying to find a solution that provides the most benefits to the majority of anglers and fishing locations along our coast. Highly complex problem.

You are wasting your time to to get some to under stand the reasoning behind it..... Pretty sure the fun will begin in the next couple weeks... -