RogersonCrusoe
Well-Known Member
Kinda related - but what kind / size of wire do you guys use?
Hooks for Anchovy Teaser Rigs
- Thread starter Birdman
- Start date
RiverBoy
Well-Known Member
Yes the old wool sweater test. Just curious how long ago that happened to you? Last time i was checked ( last july; officer with an Aussie accent in Nootka ) i asked him about this. he said they don't do that ; they just want to ensure no gap between the barb and the hook. he was satisfied with my crimp job. i had a couple of spoons lying around and he blessed them too.
Anyways let's get this back on the rails. my bad.
Aces
Well-Known Member
Tugcapitan
Well-Known Member
Or perhaps you never learned to make a killer roll with a treble.
Like I said, no problem with your arguments against trebles, but saying "trebles ruin the action" just isn't true. I fully believe you can get just as good a roll with singles, I have no problem with that.
Just trying to keep things honest is all.
Aces
Well-Known Member
I still use trebles. I can get the roll i like using them. 5-6-- Chinooks a years says it works
Waterwolf2230
Well-Known Member
Seems to me that your hookup % would be higher too on that setup. Do you tie your fluoro directly to the lead treble?
RiverBoy
Well-Known Member
Yessir i tie the fluro direct to the lead treble. if you zoom in you can see a small sequin above a buzz bomb bumper. helps protect the knot in a very critical area. the knot actually is buried in the bumper and the trebles hold tight to the plug body.
Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
If you wanna be as anal and do testing like I do on your bait roll and hook strength then I suggest doing multiple tests with different set ups at home, in a pool, or in a local lake and with a vise in your shop. I've been through tons of different hook manufacturers over the years testing hook strength and have ended up over the past couple years with 4X strong Owner trebles with Muscle Points for my lead hooks on my tandem bait hook ups and single's on the trailer.
Some facts I have found from my testing:
1. lead trebles on a tandem hook set up will not effect roll if they aren't too big. I personally will never go over a size 2 treble on a lead hook tandem set up on a larger anchovy and use size 4's on smaller anchovy. For Herring in all different sizes I go up in hook size from there.
2. trailer trebles can affect roll negatively if they are too big and are let to swing loosely beyond the bait tail. If the tandem trailer treble is small enough and held in place you can still get a very good roll with the bait.
3. manufactures are full of **** when it comes to hook strength. Test them yourselves with a strong spring scale with the hook in the vise and see what is truly up with the strength of the hook.
4. There is a direct relation between hook size effecting rolls on bait set ups in teaser heads, cut plug, and strip. Test yourself to see what I mean and you will find a sweet spot for the size of hook to size of bait and configuration of hooks ie treble/treble, single/single, treble/single etc..
5. Just because a hook size is bigger doesn't always mean it's stronger. You get to a point where the science of the metal and the width of the bend can actually decrease the strength of that part of the hook cause the gap get's larger and larger. The metal diameter has to increase dramatically to compensate for that scientific gap difference. Or the manufacturer has to use much stronger steel for the smaller diameter metal used to compensate for hook point to shank gap size.
6. Is it harder to prick yourself in the finger with a pin or a nail? A pin. Why? Cause of the diameter of the metal. If a hook is smaller and has a smaller point and diameter it will penetrate more. BUT the hook and metal has to be strong enough to stand up to the pressures of a fighting fish in heavy current so find where that sweet spot is.
7. Over the years I have had a lot of trailer hooks break off during fights, netting fish etc..I like using heavier line to the trailer and protection tubing. BUT I also have another technique to aid in this and hook placement and keeping the trailer in a fixed possition by using magic thread over that part of the trailer on bait. Red thread also gives a nice "bleeding" look to the bait.
8. Does haywire help with roll? (there's stainless and galvanized available too) Yes if you have to use it cause you can't get a good roll with the hooks and hook set up on the bait you are using. BUT no if you set things up right without the wire.
9. Don't get caught by your wife, testing anchovy set ups in your family's pool before the summer swimming season is over.
If guys are bending open top quality hooks on springs then ya I would say ease up on the fish fight and back your boat up to gain ground on the gap between the boat and the fish. If you keep a steep angle on your line to the fish it will drive that strong part of the hook upwards and deep into bone. If you have a big distance between your boat and the fish the hook will be using it's weaker points to pull the bend out and also rip the hook out of the fishes mouth and/or bend or break the hook or tear the fishes weaker mouth parts.
Watching some guys on the water fight fish with their boats far away and not backing up to them or chasing them if they are very large mostly will always result in pulled hooks, lost fish, and or broken line/gear.
I read over and over on this forum and others about how many fish are being lost out there and guys stating that the guys landing fish "must be using barbs". That may be the case in some instances of course but a lot of the time I guarantee tons of fish are being lost out there because of the way the fish is being fought and where the boat is in relation to where the fish is and the angle of the line to the hook in the fish's mouth. Get that line angle to the fish as steep as possible and watch your landing ratio go up quickly.
Not sure if they sell this type of Owner in stores here yet. I buy mine from the Owner sight in the USA and have them shipped.
Some facts I have found from my testing:
1. lead trebles on a tandem hook set up will not effect roll if they aren't too big. I personally will never go over a size 2 treble on a lead hook tandem set up on a larger anchovy and use size 4's on smaller anchovy. For Herring in all different sizes I go up in hook size from there.
2. trailer trebles can affect roll negatively if they are too big and are let to swing loosely beyond the bait tail. If the tandem trailer treble is small enough and held in place you can still get a very good roll with the bait.
3. manufactures are full of **** when it comes to hook strength. Test them yourselves with a strong spring scale with the hook in the vise and see what is truly up with the strength of the hook.
4. There is a direct relation between hook size effecting rolls on bait set ups in teaser heads, cut plug, and strip. Test yourself to see what I mean and you will find a sweet spot for the size of hook to size of bait and configuration of hooks ie treble/treble, single/single, treble/single etc..
5. Just because a hook size is bigger doesn't always mean it's stronger. You get to a point where the science of the metal and the width of the bend can actually decrease the strength of that part of the hook cause the gap get's larger and larger. The metal diameter has to increase dramatically to compensate for that scientific gap difference. Or the manufacturer has to use much stronger steel for the smaller diameter metal used to compensate for hook point to shank gap size.
6. Is it harder to prick yourself in the finger with a pin or a nail? A pin. Why? Cause of the diameter of the metal. If a hook is smaller and has a smaller point and diameter it will penetrate more. BUT the hook and metal has to be strong enough to stand up to the pressures of a fighting fish in heavy current so find where that sweet spot is.
7. Over the years I have had a lot of trailer hooks break off during fights, netting fish etc..I like using heavier line to the trailer and protection tubing. BUT I also have another technique to aid in this and hook placement and keeping the trailer in a fixed possition by using magic thread over that part of the trailer on bait. Red thread also gives a nice "bleeding" look to the bait.
8. Does haywire help with roll? (there's stainless and galvanized available too) Yes if you have to use it cause you can't get a good roll with the hooks and hook set up on the bait you are using. BUT no if you set things up right without the wire.
9. Don't get caught by your wife, testing anchovy set ups in your family's pool before the summer swimming season is over.
If guys are bending open top quality hooks on springs then ya I would say ease up on the fish fight and back your boat up to gain ground on the gap between the boat and the fish. If you keep a steep angle on your line to the fish it will drive that strong part of the hook upwards and deep into bone. If you have a big distance between your boat and the fish the hook will be using it's weaker points to pull the bend out and also rip the hook out of the fishes mouth and/or bend or break the hook or tear the fishes weaker mouth parts.
Watching some guys on the water fight fish with their boats far away and not backing up to them or chasing them if they are very large mostly will always result in pulled hooks, lost fish, and or broken line/gear.
I read over and over on this forum and others about how many fish are being lost out there and guys stating that the guys landing fish "must be using barbs". That may be the case in some instances of course but a lot of the time I guarantee tons of fish are being lost out there because of the way the fish is being fought and where the boat is in relation to where the fish is and the angle of the line to the hook in the fish's mouth. Get that line angle to the fish as steep as possible and watch your landing ratio go up quickly.
Not sure if they sell this type of Owner in stores here yet. I buy mine from the Owner sight in the USA and have them shipped.
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Chasin' Dreams
Well-Known Member
I haven't either yet. They are stronger than other 4X hooks I've bought and a lot stronger than the other Owner 3X ones I had previously. Very stout hooks.