Halibut on "A" TV last Night
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Deewar25
Well-Known Member
there is obviously still something I don't understand with this - had they been infact gifted with this quota, or did they pay lifetime $50/pound for the quota? That is a significant risk on their part and I can understand their fight if so, but it still doesn't justify those not getting out of bed anymore to fish it and getting a free ride now off the other willing commies (perhaps they still feel they deserved it since they took the risk and shelled out 1/2 million 8 years ago). This was definitely DFO's screwup in the first place to event negotiate this and now, hell yes, they are in a tough situation by what they created.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Deewar25 read this; it should answer your question.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/picfi-ipcip/docs/relinquishment-renonciation-2010-12-eng.pdf
GLG
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/picfi-ipcip/docs/relinquishment-renonciation-2010-12-eng.pdf
GLG
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
nope, more confused
Just a simple 'what was gifted', if they supposedly paid $50/lb for the quota originally. Just trying to grasp the commies position out of this as well - obviously we as sports want more, but why are they putting up such a ridiculous battle if they were supposedly gifted this quota (besides losing a free ride). If they infact paid $50/lb originally, then yes, I'd be spitting and cursing as well even with the acknowledgement that this is all DFO's screwup in the first place.
I'll be honest, I tried reading other explanations of the original agreement, but it was still hazy - need it dummied down for the regular guy!
nope, more confused
Just a simple 'what was gifted', if they supposedly paid $50/lb for the quota originally. Just trying to grasp the commies position out of this as well - obviously we as sports want more, but why are they putting up such a ridiculous battle if they were supposedly gifted this quota (besides losing a free ride). If they infact paid $50/lb originally, then yes, I'd be spitting and cursing as well even with the acknowledgement that this is all DFO's screwup in the first place.
I'll be honest, I tried reading other explanations of the original agreement, but it was still hazy - need it dummied down for the regular guy!
Much of the original gifted quota has been bought and sold over the years. Many of the quota holders today bought their quota from the original quota holders. That`s why DFO would need to buy them out and couldn`t simlpy take it away in order to realocate quota. It`s a great big mess. Can any of you Guides afford to buy quota for $50lb
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
so was the original gifted quota from 2003, or was that something from before? Was the $50/lb the agreement that was then set up in 2003???
So lets say this was before - 1995 - they got this gifted to them - that was a lifetime gift? Then what was the deal with $50? Did the guys that originally have the gift have to then pay $50 if they wanted to keep it or was $50 only for any new commies that never received the original gift??
You are right regardless - 1 big mess - just another of many thanks to the great DFO.
So lets say this was before - 1995 - they got this gifted to them - that was a lifetime gift? Then what was the deal with $50? Did the guys that originally have the gift have to then pay $50 if they wanted to keep it or was $50 only for any new commies that never received the original gift??
You are right regardless - 1 big mess - just another of many thanks to the great DFO.
As I understand it $50.00 per pound is the approximate current market value when the quota is being sold or resold. Next month it could be $40.00 or $60.00. It was free to the first owners and many of them still have it. They are the DFO millionaire lottery winners.
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You are not getting it Deewar. When you buy it for $50, you are buying it forever, It is an investment. That $50.00 allows you to catch the same pound of halibut each and every year or lease it to someone else. It does not take many years (about 5 currently if you lease it) to get back the $50.00 and then you and your children’s children are in the gravy forever and in effect own a public resource.
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Bassblaster
Active Member
Hey Wolf,
What he did not say was that they were eating all the 1000's and 1000's of #, only that that's what it took to feed a family. If you want to have cereal, milk, steak, etc., it probably Does take 1000's and 1000's of pounds of fish, TO SELL. Not arguing with you, just sayin'.
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
ok, i think I'm getting there - but you said sold AND re-sold for $50. I assume the re-sold part isn't right in terms of $50 and that is what confused. They get this originally for $50, then they can set whatever price each year to sell to others to fish it? The $3, 4, 5 whatever so those guys that actually fish end up making a $1 or $2 on landed cost?? They obviously aren't selling quota $50 every year to someone else. Since that is just a 1 year usage of the acquired quota. If that is what the deal is, then yep, I guess I finally get it.
The gifted ones were before the 2003 deal then?
fish4all
Well-Known Member
todays market value is $50\lb to buy the quota. but you are buying a percentage so if you bought 10lbs for $500 and the TAC drops by 50% the following year then you now have 5lbs that cost you $500. If you do lease the quota it is for one year and the terms are agreed to before the quota gets temporarily transfered. basically it is about a 15yr payout if you buy quota as you need to borrow the money and pay interest.
yes the ones you call gifted are pre 2003, but the majority of licenses and quota have been bought and sold since then.
Also if you take the 6.5 mill commercial tac and divide it by the 435 licenses you end up with approx 15,000lbs per license.
hope that clarifies it a little better
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Fish-Hunter
Active Member
Someone in DFO should have had their balls nailed to the damned wall for "gifting" a resource with this type of value to so few individuals in perpetuity.
If each license were 15,000lbs (I know some are more and some are less) and to sell it to a new investor at $50.00/lb (current price) that is $750,000!!! That is one hell of a bonus to the orriginal license holder that was gifted the quota.
Although I am not sure I would make that kind of an investment into a resource that is supposed to be free to ALL Canadians, and one that has so much potential for political instability, I would definately rate it as a HIGH risk investment. You just don't know when or if it will get recalled, and now what do you have for your $750,000 investment.
It's kind of like getting a "real good" deal on a new TV from out of the back of some guys van in the mall parking lot, if and when you get caught in possesion of the TV the authorities inform you that the TV really doesn't belong to you and they take it away, now what do you have for your $100.00 investment with the dude in the mall parking lot.
I know that it is not quite that simple, but it is still in my opinion a very risky investment, one of those situations that if it seems too good to be true....
fish4all
Well-Known Member
I suppose but if you have a boat and crew you have no choice but to invest in quota or be at the mercy of a leaser. The quota was not $50/lb in 2003 when it first went to ITQ's. It was actually done a little different where each quota was broken into 2 blocks and no boat could fish more than 4 blocks. It was later on that quota was leased/purchased by the pound.
So If you are a guide or lodge then i guess the same applies. You have invested in a resource based industry and you take your lumps as stocks rise and fall.
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Fishing Guide
Active Member
Cheers All,
If DFO (or the Supreme Court) decided that this ITQ needed to be taken back and re-distributed in a logical and legal fashion then this initial ITQ would immediately be worth nothing on the market.
It is interesting to talk with commercial fishermen who actually fish but who are restrained from commenting on the situation as it now stands as they have been informed that, if they do talk, then they will no longer have access to
the quota they so desperately need. How can one find concensus when the majority of the original quota has either changed hands (sometimes more than once) or the quota users are afraid of losing their access to quota. One certainly can understand the position of those who must lease their quota in avoiding 'upsetting the cart' as well as those who hold the ITQ and are making huge monetary gains from this gift from DFO of a Common Property Resource.
In this position one will never find a solution that will allow the transfer of quota to the Sports Sector as the current holders of the ITQ wish monetary 'compensation', the current leasee's are constrained from saying anything and the Sports Sector has neither the financial resources nor the stomach to agree to purchasing Common Property Resources.
We are further encumbered in that it appears reason does not prevail within either DFO or the Federal Governement as the logical overview of the situation has been ignored and rejected time and time again.
We are advised that a legal challenge, while being successful, would take years to wind its way through the court system and that the cost would be tremendous.
Hmmm...a decidedly difficult situation so...
Dear Mr. Duncan,
This letter is to advise you that your services are no longer required....
Dear Mrs. Shea,
This letter is to advise you that your services are no longer required....
Dear Mr. Harper,
This letter is to advise you that your services are no longer required....
If DFO (or the Supreme Court) decided that this ITQ needed to be taken back and re-distributed in a logical and legal fashion then this initial ITQ would immediately be worth nothing on the market.
It is interesting to talk with commercial fishermen who actually fish but who are restrained from commenting on the situation as it now stands as they have been informed that, if they do talk, then they will no longer have access to
the quota they so desperately need. How can one find concensus when the majority of the original quota has either changed hands (sometimes more than once) or the quota users are afraid of losing their access to quota. One certainly can understand the position of those who must lease their quota in avoiding 'upsetting the cart' as well as those who hold the ITQ and are making huge monetary gains from this gift from DFO of a Common Property Resource.
In this position one will never find a solution that will allow the transfer of quota to the Sports Sector as the current holders of the ITQ wish monetary 'compensation', the current leasee's are constrained from saying anything and the Sports Sector has neither the financial resources nor the stomach to agree to purchasing Common Property Resources.
We are further encumbered in that it appears reason does not prevail within either DFO or the Federal Governement as the logical overview of the situation has been ignored and rejected time and time again.
We are advised that a legal challenge, while being successful, would take years to wind its way through the court system and that the cost would be tremendous.
Hmmm...a decidedly difficult situation so...
Dear Mr. Duncan,
This letter is to advise you that your services are no longer required....
Dear Mrs. Shea,
This letter is to advise you that your services are no longer required....
Dear Mr. Harper,
This letter is to advise you that your services are no longer required....
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