Lank Thompson
Member
Too many Canadians don't want to work. We need foreign workers. Alberta alone has almost 90,000 unfilled jobs in the oil patch each year. Yet people sit on unemployment. The thought amazes me.
green party ,, your thoughts
- Thread starter trophywife
- Start date
Too many Canadians don't want to work. We need foreign workers. Alberta alone has almost 90,000 unfilled jobs in the oil patch each year. Yet people sit on unemployment. The thought amazes me.
My understanding is that many Canadians don't want to do the work for the wages these guys will. Hard labour in camp in Northern Alberta, 14 bux an hour? Tradesmen in the teens?
Most of the foriegn workers are being paid a heck of a lot less then what a Canadian would bring. I'm all for letting the market determine the prices, but I think importing impoverished labour has gone too far...
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
This is completley untrue, I don't know a single tradesman making less than 6 figures. A starting wage at a fast food or coffee chain is in the mid teens.
And we get to listen to people ***** about the lack of jobs, I work in north eastern BC I have for the last 9 years we have always had more jobs than people. People don't want to work, they don't want to adapt to the changing job scene with relocation or retraining.
I stand corrected. Just going by what someone I know who came back from the 'patch told me. A lot of higher paid labour was being replaced with lower paid.
Damn, I derailed the thread again.
Damn, I derailed the thread again.
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fish stalker
Active Member
I am not a fan of our voting system. I do not always vote for who I would like. If a race looks tight between say a conservative and liberal and I want ndp or green I will vote liberal just make sure the conservative dosnt get in. Im always shocked when elections happen, I can never predict and cant undertand why people vote they way they do. It seems a whole lota old people are voting and not enough young people.
I am also sick of people saying well look what the ndp did in the 90s. Wtf does that have to do with the people running now!? Id rather go into deficit then sell out every aspect of our resources. Value added figure it out Canada.
EI in alberta, good let people use up there ei, they fricken paid for it! 3 months on 2 off...whatever. Busting there butt in a shity job, if anyone should use its them. and these magical $15 mcD jobs and $30 laborer, where? You hear this but when it comes time to find the entry level jobs they dont seem so easy to find. My bro has been out there 2 months they want machine operators minimum. and now why should they pay more when they know they can imports for 10bux a hour.
I am also sick of people saying well look what the ndp did in the 90s. Wtf does that have to do with the people running now!? Id rather go into deficit then sell out every aspect of our resources. Value added figure it out Canada.
EI in alberta, good let people use up there ei, they fricken paid for it! 3 months on 2 off...whatever. Busting there butt in a shity job, if anyone should use its them. and these magical $15 mcD jobs and $30 laborer, where? You hear this but when it comes time to find the entry level jobs they dont seem so easy to find. My bro has been out there 2 months they want machine operators minimum. and now why should they pay more when they know they can imports for 10bux a hour.
finaddict
Well-Known Member
Thanks for trying to talk for me Profisher, but I am quite capable of speaking for myself.
Here's what I think; Vancouver Island industries have been "hewers of wood, miners of ore and drawers from the waters" for about 150 years. Those days are nearly over and if you want Vancouver Island to be anything other than a retirement community, you better start thinking about an economy based on other opportunities. If you think that "Eco-touring" is going to save the Island's economy, I'll ask how you are going to accommodate several hundred thousand tour operators, since there will be more tour operators than tourists.
The other common truth is that for decades the mid and upper Island has voted NDP and the economies here have not flourished. You need to start to think about what the Island can do to generate a new, more technically oriented economy and not continue to lean on resource based industries that are all but finished. To me, it doesn't matter. I will be retiring to the island in a few more years and plan to enjoy my retirement home. I will also bring all my retirement dollars with me and invest heavily in living on the island. I will be a significant contributor to the Island economy, but retirement dollars are finite. The future of the island will not benefit from me past my time there.
So go ahead, vote for the greens, or the other socialists. From the stand point that nothing will ever happen on the island if you do, I applaud you as it means that my time there will never change. But if you really want to see change, if you really want to see jobs and an improved economy, put someone into the seat in your riding who believes in a free enterprise economy and who is prepared to encourage new thinking and new ideas about how to make money on the island. Because clearly the party and MLA's you have now have not been able to accomplish much.
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tincan
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% that our economy needs to be more focused on a technically oriented economy and not on a resource-based economy (at least as we know it to be now). I believe this to be true for not only the island but for much of the rest of Canada. Where I disagree is the fact you seem to imply the NDP/Greens are not aligned with this thinking. I think it is safe to say the Cons as a whole are very interested in continuing to extract, drill, fish, fell as quickly as possible our resources across the country with very little regard to our long-term health, safety and economic well-being.
On free-enterprise: I've been schooled to believe in free enterprise as a graduate level finance guy and I have worked in finance in several world capitals and know first hand the free-enterprise without regulation DOES NOT WORK... especially in the long-term. How many times to we need to go through a bubble followed by a collapse followed by the next bubble, etc. If you don't understand the history of our economy you will be doomed to repeat it and that is what has been happening under recent leadership... a series of boom and bust economies based on 4-year (max) thinking.
Canada's Balance Sheet and Income Statement: I'll try to keep things simple here. Both the provincial and federal level governments want to operate a balanced budget to "prove" they run a tight ship. IMO, here is how the 'free enterprise' thinking Cons (federally) and Libs (BC) have done things in recent years. Sell off Canada's/BC's/AB's assets (oil, timber, gas, fish, etc) in the quickest way possible in order to make their respective Income Statements look good (ie. more revenue at the top makes the expenses seem OK). The problem with this is we are stealing assets (from our Balance Sheet) that belong not just to us but to all Canadians, current and future. It is incredibly short-sighted, arrogant and selfish to do this and yet we have allowed it to happen for years in the name of "growth" and a "healthy" economy. Any economist or thinking layman can see that this is mentality has terribly dangerous ramifications in the mid to long-term.
The Federal Cons have not shown foresight in this area despite being the "free enterprise" party. I tend to try to vote for the party with a long-term outlook on a sustainable economy. To me this is the party that believes in science and reason-based policy. Tough to find a party that does this well all of the time but that party is NOT the Cons at the federal level and unfortunately not the Libs/Cons on the provincial level. I would love to see Clark replaced as leader of the Libs as she is not fit to run the province IMO. I'm not stoked on Dix either as he's a quirky guy and doesn't state/have a lot of concrete answers at this point... probably because he doesn't have to provide answers to win this election. As for the greens I'm still in research mode so no opinion at this point. In order to create a sustainable economy there will have to be some short-term pain and that is what keeps voters voting in these clowns who are actually continuing to hurt them seriously with boom/bust economies instead of voting for someone who is dedicated to long-term health.
On free-enterprise: I've been schooled to believe in free enterprise as a graduate level finance guy and I have worked in finance in several world capitals and know first hand the free-enterprise without regulation DOES NOT WORK... especially in the long-term. How many times to we need to go through a bubble followed by a collapse followed by the next bubble, etc. If you don't understand the history of our economy you will be doomed to repeat it and that is what has been happening under recent leadership... a series of boom and bust economies based on 4-year (max) thinking.
Canada's Balance Sheet and Income Statement: I'll try to keep things simple here. Both the provincial and federal level governments want to operate a balanced budget to "prove" they run a tight ship. IMO, here is how the 'free enterprise' thinking Cons (federally) and Libs (BC) have done things in recent years. Sell off Canada's/BC's/AB's assets (oil, timber, gas, fish, etc) in the quickest way possible in order to make their respective Income Statements look good (ie. more revenue at the top makes the expenses seem OK). The problem with this is we are stealing assets (from our Balance Sheet) that belong not just to us but to all Canadians, current and future. It is incredibly short-sighted, arrogant and selfish to do this and yet we have allowed it to happen for years in the name of "growth" and a "healthy" economy. Any economist or thinking layman can see that this is mentality has terribly dangerous ramifications in the mid to long-term.
The Federal Cons have not shown foresight in this area despite being the "free enterprise" party. I tend to try to vote for the party with a long-term outlook on a sustainable economy. To me this is the party that believes in science and reason-based policy. Tough to find a party that does this well all of the time but that party is NOT the Cons at the federal level and unfortunately not the Libs/Cons on the provincial level. I would love to see Clark replaced as leader of the Libs as she is not fit to run the province IMO. I'm not stoked on Dix either as he's a quirky guy and doesn't state/have a lot of concrete answers at this point... probably because he doesn't have to provide answers to win this election. As for the greens I'm still in research mode so no opinion at this point. In order to create a sustainable economy there will have to be some short-term pain and that is what keeps voters voting in these clowns who are actually continuing to hurt them seriously with boom/bust economies instead of voting for someone who is dedicated to long-term health.
sammyslabber
Active Member
yeh y El Papa es Argentino...
Englishman
Well-Known Member
Great post Tincan!
And a major technical area we should be investing in is renewable energy - solar, wind and wave power. NOT building oil pipelines smashing across our ecosystems, nor run of the river hydro projects with their collateral damage and development in watersheds, nor clear cut logging on steep unstable slopes right down to the creekside and exporting the raw logs to Asia!
But you will find the Cons and Libs will continue with the same old ways, "building the economy" - which is code for externalising all environmental costs and leaving a huge environmental debt and resource depletion for our children and grandchildren to inherit and pay for with their health and well-being.
And here I thought the free enterprise system was the reason why most of today's economies are in the tank. Things like corporate greed and corruption. But no we just need more of that to fix things. I would like someone to explain to me what the "end goal" is for the true free enterprise capitalist system is? BTW I'm not advocating pure socialism either. But where are we going to end up with capitalism that makes all the ups and downs worthwhile in the end. All I see ahead is more people on the planet to sustain the required growth, that will consume the finite commodities quicker, increase pollution and push all the non-human species that we are supposed to share this planet with into near extinction.
This planet is billions of years old, look what we have done to it in a few hundred years and where we are going even faster!
This planet is billions of years old, look what we have done to it in a few hundred years and where we are going even faster!
Cuba Libre
Well-Known Member
Just looking at the microcosm that is fishing on this planet----- Wise men have said for years... "We have seen the best of it." I reluctantly agree.... I haven't left much of a legacy for my grand kids. None of us have.
Some very good info in these posts, a few comments
First and foremost I think voting should be manditory and legislated into law, like Australia
There are a lot of posts that talk of votin for the Green party based what is believed they will do if elected, what about the rest of the issues concerning running this privince?
I worked in Fort McMurray for 11yrs and can tell you with all certainty that I would be willing to bet that tradesmen make
100K/yr there, but make no mistake make sure you have a job before you go, you can look at the local news paper online (Fort McMurray Today)
There is a lot of talk about not building these pipelines, I wonder where you people think all the revenue to pay for education, health care and other social spending that everyone thinks are neccessary is going to come from in the future, if not from resource based industry my guess would be massive tax increases
I will never vote NDP, and do not believe the Green party is ready to run this province and or is capable of winning so voting for them is like votig NDP
First and foremost I think voting should be manditory and legislated into law, like Australia
There are a lot of posts that talk of votin for the Green party based what is believed they will do if elected, what about the rest of the issues concerning running this privince?
I worked in Fort McMurray for 11yrs and can tell you with all certainty that I would be willing to bet that tradesmen make
100K/yr there, but make no mistake make sure you have a job before you go, you can look at the local news paper online (Fort McMurray Today)
There is a lot of talk about not building these pipelines, I wonder where you people think all the revenue to pay for education, health care and other social spending that everyone thinks are neccessary is going to come from in the future, if not from resource based industry my guess would be massive tax increases
I will never vote NDP, and do not believe the Green party is ready to run this province and or is capable of winning so voting for them is like votig NDP
Pippen
Well-Known Member
Cuba......I have finally after Englishman's comments at me decided to come back into this thread. Believe me....I agree with you; we are NOT leaving a great world for our kids, grandkids, and generations beyond. In saying that......I bet that was said 50, 70, 90 years ago and look at where we are.
Leaving a legacy for your kids/grandkids unfortunately also does mean financially. I get what everyone is saying but the fact of the matter is simple.
If you had to choose between providing for your family and not fishing again because the economy is in the tank....what would you choose?
I want to preface all of my comments earlier in this thread by saying; as to the ORIGNINAL post....the Green Party's fisheries mandate is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. In saying that as a kid who has grown up as the son of a wildlife biologist and has spent the better part of my 42 years in the outdoors......I WANT something to happen like the GREEN's say. As a realist I know it's not going to happen.....EVER in my lifetime.
As a realist though I get the lesser of the evils we have to choose from in this province. If ANYONE thinks fisheries are ever going to be in the top 6 or 7 issues in the hierarchy of "promises" from a party that gets into power you are sorely mistaken. As long as the BS continues with anarchists on the lower east side taking up so much of the media's attention, fishing for the "have's" is never going to get air time. I can reference very quickly the halibut protest of last year.....it was a flash in the pan. I applaud all that participated on behalf of me as I was in Montreal for work, but it had a flash of attention and that was it.
The bottom line in this province (and Englishman et al I am entitled to an opinion just as you all are) is that we NEED a healthy economy to help make things go round. As this original thread started about a fisheries mandate from the Green Party I will keep my examples to this. As I stated earlier on pages 7 an 8.....BC based customers WILL drop if disposable income is not there, compound that with the strength of our dollar and ALL charter/guide/lodge operations are going to take it on the chin. Yes there are people who make a good income in BC, AB and the USA who will continue to book charters but the "borderline" folks know as well as anyone else that their fishing trip of the year is likely gonna be the first to get cut in the family budget.
It is plain and simple.....when it comes to fishing if you are struggling to put a roof over your family and food on their plates you are not running out fishing. This boils down to the economy; which we in this province need HEALTHY!! We are a resource rich province and unless you want to pay taxes out the wazoo you have to realize OUR resources are part of what is going to make this province go round. Be it mining, fishing, forestry and tourism which all generate revenue....the are all OUR resources.
For those that hate the idea of BC utilizing it's resources and ALSO attracting big business to generate TONS of jobs and opportunities in this province.....where do you think the dollars are going to come from to make this province operate? Let me guess.....you are okay with raised taxes as the NDP has already proposed............BUT you likely voted "NO" to the HST. One has to just look a couple of provinces over to see that the NDP there just raised the PST to 8% from 7%; but I guess that's okay as opposed to HST?
The NDP and Green's may have some great points with respect to the Environment and our Resources, but please tell me where the revenue is going to come from aside from OUR (as voters) pocketbooks? Yup.....increased taxes across the board.
You wanna laugh......"The NDP has said they will freeze ferry rates". Hahahaha......that is a laugh and looks good as the parsley on top of the meat but push the parsely aside and you have an overdone steak full of crap. It's ALL gotta come from somewhere.....and unless the tell the Union and higher up brass they all need to take pay cuts it is NEVER Going to happen. If the NDP get in mark words; follow that paper trail and see where it leads you.
So just before Englsihman et al pounce on me, I want to reiterate that I think the Green's platform in the orignal post sounds awesome. Sad thing is it will never happen. Also take some time and click on all their other party commitments in the hotlinks above the Fisheries page and tell me how many of them are realistic.
I was in a great business meeting today where we started discussing the election. The thing that frustrated 2/3rds of us was that people are voting due to hate of our current Gov't and not actually realizing what the parties platform is or where they stand. The entire WORLD just went through and is still going through the largest economic meltdown and we weathered it pretty darn well.....ya we are in the hole but so is everywhere else on the planet; including this entire country.
NDP and/or Green at the Provincial or Federal level are not going to take us back the promised land. This I can promise you.
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Pippen
Well-Known Member
Actually there are three different types and I am of the third that falls into the category which would like to see a combination of your to previous clasifications. In saying that though I am not going to see the farm sold and my family move into a 1 bedroom condo for the betterment of some "pie in the sky" fishery mandates.
Well.....you can say I am wrong all you want. I have stated nothing other than I respect other's opinions but don't think I have said that they are outright wrong.
Absolutely.....in this province if the environment goes is destroyed....EVERYTHING DOES GO DOWN. We are a province that has not developed alternate industries but we do rely (just like AB, SK MB) on our resources as a source of revenue. We are NOT an anomally and if you can tell me how this province is going to make money in the short term I would be interested.
Let me ask you to clarify your stance.............so you are NO to forestry, mining, fishing, farming etc? Yes....the latter two will raise questions but commercial fishing (aside from quota issues) is a resource based employer in this province.....as is farming (not fish farming as I abhor it). WHERE is this province going to find it's dollars? Do you not think we are taxed pretty heavily? Do you want more taxes?
Oh.....and by the way.......don't even waste my time in this discussion with bee colonies. Show my some FACTUAL evidence with CREDIBLE sources.
Hahaha.....that is funny. You are saying Labourists from way, way back in the Industial Revoloution made our world, workplaces, environment and the planet a "Happier Place"? Maybe that is why the Mayor of Vancovuer owns a Company called Happy Planet.
If you think we have not evolved immensely as a society beyond the mentality of "radicals"......that have fashioned the world.....you are likely so far Green/Pinko that you will never see through your hemp poncho and "I love Birkenstocks" t-shirt.Hippy's did NOT fight for all that you mentioned..........their fundamental ethos since the mid 60's — including harmony with nature, communal living, artistic experimentation particularly in music, and the widespread use of recreational drugs — spread around the world. They did NOT make the world a healthier and safer place unless you consider massive protests to a war, buring pachoolie and driving up the cost of granola....."safer and healthier".
Haha......ya.....making the world better via capitalism has done jack squat for the betterment of the world. Good luck in your dugout canoe....and sealguy fishing line dragging for fish. The statement above is so leftist and so narrow-minded I have trouble even comprehending that you made it?
Hey.....I have some good things and bad things to say about Suzuki. I applaud his fight against fish farms........but I also think his stance on hunting and the BS propoganda he pulls about grizzly bear and wolf populations in this Province is a massive load of ****. No issues saying that at all as his plebes/disciples who are city dwellers and have ZIPPO idea as to what ACTUALLY happens outside of city limits are the ones who PAY HIS SALARY. I will not dispute he has done some good things and I am on board with some of his green intiatives.....but the BS propaganda against hunting is something I do have inside knowledge of and it's a load shat.
Suzuki is FAR from the GOD many place him as......much as many voting plebes do they believe everything they hear in the first 5 minutes of the news hour and believe it as the truth. When in this day and age you have a friend called Google where you can research issues, cross reference their sources and ACTUALLY take some time out of your life to be educated on many things.
OKay......I am not fan of the Gateway proposal as it stands. What do you tell those in mid/central BC who stand to benefit with 15+ years of employent who are now living off the Province? "Hey guys......we got this down south.....we voted out the HST but we're jacking up income tax, carbon tax and the PST; you're good!"
Yup.....and decades later may you rest still in peace knowing your grandkids had to move to Thailand to open up a recycled beach toy shop as the "green" economy offered them nothing after they spent countless dollars on a degree.
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