FIVE NATIONS MULTI-SPECIES FISHERY MANAGEMENT PLAN

[212] I will begin by describing the judge’s conclusions with respect to each of the species.

[213] There is both a commercial and a recreational fishery for chinook. The species has been under a great deal of pressure, and, under the Pacific Salmon Treaty, Canada has agreed to reduce the fishery for conservation purposes.

[214] For regulatory purposes, chinook can be divided into the ocean-based stock, which is a mixed population, and the stock that has returned to a specific river to spawn. The ocean-based stock is managed under a system known as Aggregate Abundance Based Management (“AABM”). The stocks of fish that have returned to specific rivers on the West Coast of Vancouver Island to spawn are managed under a system known as Individual Stock Based Management (“ISBM”). For practical purposes, AABM applies to most of the plaintiffs’ commercial fishing, while ISBM applies to specific terminal fisheries in which the plaintiffs engage.

[215] The judge found that, for the most part, the regulatory system, including the allocation of quota to the plaintiff, was justified for conservation purposes. She did, however, find that certain specific policies violated the plaintiffs’ rights.

[216] At the time of the trial, the recreational fishery for chinook was given priority over the commercial fishery. The commercial fishery allocation was subject to a 20% holdback until August 31 each year in order to allow for a downward adjustment in the event that the recreational harvest exceeded expectations. As well, commercial fishing could not take place within five miles of the shore until September 15 each year, in order to allow chinook to have a migration corridor. Recreational fishers were allowed to fish in the area between one and five miles of the shore.

[217] The judge found that the priority given to recreational fishing over the plaintiffs’ rights was unjustified. Particularly given the traditional importance of chinook to the Nuu‑Chah‑Nulth, their commercial fishing allocation could not be given a lower priority than the recreational fishery.

[218] The judge also found that the plaintiffs’ small vessel fleet should be allowed in the one-to-five mile corridor at times when recreational fishers have that right. She did not, however, make the same ruling with respect to the plaintiffs’ trollers.

[219] With respect to the terminal chinook fishery, the judge also found that the priority given to recreational fishers was not justified.

[220] The judge found that Canada could not justify its policy of limiting PICFI to voluntary relinquishment of licences in respect of chinook. Because of the species’ cultural and historical importance to the plaintiffs, deficiencies in their allocations must be addressed through compulsory relinquishment of licences where necessary.

[221] The main difference between the regulatory regime for coho and chinook is that there is no general commercial fishing allowed for coho. There is some allowance for a commercial bycatch. The judge found that the priority given to recreational fishers over the plaintiffs in respect of coho was unjustified, both in respect of coho managed under the AABM and the ISBM systems. She required the Minister to make changes to the allocation to ensure that the plaintiffs’ rights are not subordinated to recreational fishers. As there is no general commercial fishery for coho, the PICFI issues do not arise in respect of that species.

[222] The sockeye, pink, and chum salmon fisheries are of less importance to the plaintiffs. The judge noted that sockeye does not exist within the plaintiffs’ territory every year, and that pink salmon migrate along the West Coast of Vancouver Island only in odd numbered years. There is no commercial chum salmon fishery; the species is caught only as bycatch. Given the limited importance of these three species to the plaintiffs, and the existence of conservation concerns, the judge found the regimes surrounding these three species to be justified.

[223] With respect to monitoring, the judge found that some form of monitoring was justified:

[1265] … [The Department of Fisheries and Oceans] is justified in subjecting this multi-species fishery to the Strategic Framework for Catch Reporting and Monitoring in order to determine appropriate monitoring standards justified in requiring a risk assessment for a salmon fishery, ocean going and terminal, in the context of a multi-species fishery with dual fishing. The need for a proper risk assessment is heightened by the use of trollers, and in particular for groundfish bycatch in the salmon fishery when trollers are used. Consultation with the plaintiffs in setting up an appropriate system is essential.

[224] With two exceptions, it seems to me that the judge’s conclusions in respect of the salmon fishery are well-reasoned and are consistent with the law. In my view, however, the judge did not give sufficient weight to the priority of Aboriginal rights in respect of the one-to-five mile exclusion zone and in respect of the mitigation policy.

[225] In respect of the exclusion zone, it does not appear to me that any rationale has been presented for giving recreational fishers rights that are denied to the plaintiffs. The exclusion of the plaintiffs’ trollers from the zone one-to-five miles offshore until September 15 each year means that a significant portion of the plaintiffs’ territories will be off-limits to their trollers for much of the time. There is no evidence to suggest that the plaintiffs’ trollers, if limited quotas are attached to them, will do more harm to conservation efforts than will smaller vessels. Accordingly, the declaration that recreational fishers should not have greater rights within the one-to-five mile corridor should extend to the plaintiffs’ trollers as well as to their “mosquito fleet”.

[226] With respect to the mitigation policy, it is not clear to me that a blanket policy against compulsory acquisition of licences for sockeye and pink salmon is justifiable. While these species are of less historical and cultural importance to the plaintiffs than are chinook and coho, the fisheries for those species remain within the scope of the plaintiffs’ Aboriginal rights, and they are entitled to have those rights respected and granted some priority. Gladstone considerations are, of course, not confined to the importance of a resource to the First Nation. Among the other considerations are the importance of the resource to other parts of the community. It seems to me that in respect of sockeye and pink salmon licences, the Minister will be required to undertake a more detailed consideration before deciding to apply the mitigation policy to PICFI. I would not rule out the possibility that in particular factual circumstances, compulsory acquisition of licences may be necessary in order to accommodate the plaintiffs’ Aboriginal rights.

[227] I would also note that an important aspect of the “all species” right is that the plaintiffs historically shifted their attention to different species depending on their abundance at any particular time. It is predictable that collapses in the population of chinook and coho may make the sockeye and pink salmon fisheries more important to the plaintiffs than they have been historically.
 
Good to hear DFO is apparently listening to the input provided to address the industrialization of the fleet. I'm sure anyone who has worked in the commercial fishery can attest to how the catching power of the fleet increased over the years with more and better technology being advanced.
Might want to look in the mirror with this one. What has the catching power of the largest fleet on the coast (sports) done over the last decade with high speed down riggers, plotters and gps? It’s a no wonder we are all being restricted. The commercial fleet has all but been decimated and replaced by the sports sector.
 
Might want to look in the mirror with this one. What has the catching power of the largest fleet on the coast (sports) done over the last decade with high speed down riggers, plotters and gps? It’s a no wonder we are all being restricted. The commercial fleet has all but been decimated and replaced by the sports sector.
A very accurate post even if many on here don't want to look in the mirror and see the truth.
 
Might want to look in the mirror with this one. What has the catching power of the largest fleet on the coast (sports) done over the last decade with high speed down riggers, plotters and gps? It’s a no wonder we are all being restricted. The commercial fleet has all but been decimated and replaced by the sports sector.
You can add to the "sport fishing" list the Commercial Fishing Guide business.
What could be more commercial then the highly efficient Guide boats on the water 7 days a week fishing for profit.
 
FFS. Another stupid claim made anonymously publicly based on no data again. It is about as bad as Watersheds claim that all the sport fishing have taken all the big fish out because they are always near shore.

Stop stirring it up @onefish
Well, 35 years ago there were no sport fishing lodges at ( fill in the blank ) locations. The average sport fishing vessel was under 20 feet, and Chartplotters, radars and electric downriggers and pot pullers were not in the equation. Also sportfisherman did no Tuna fishing in Canadian waters, very little prawn fishing and very little halibut fishing.
As far as data goes, many commies have to fish with camera's on board, or observers, or they must fill in a log with locations and species kept and released. Their catch is then validated at the dock to ensure accuracy of data.
My sportfishing consists of the odd creel survey at the dock. Not much data to go on so it is easy to downplay the impact of one's activities.
So, in spite of your opinion, this is not another stupid false claim about the catching power of sportfishing, and the impact on the resource compared to a few short years ago.

I do agree with you that sport fishing taking big fish because they are near shore is a stupid claim.
 
Well, 35 years ago there were no sport fishing lodges at ( fill in the blank ) locations. The average sport fishing vessel was under 20 feet, and Chartplotters, radars and electric downriggers and pot pullers were not in the equation. Also sportfisherman did no Tuna fishing in Canadian waters, very little prawn fishing and very little halibut fishing.
As far as data goes, many commies have to fish with camera's on board, or observers, or they must fill in a log with locations and species kept and released. Their catch is then validated at the dock to ensure accuracy of data.
My sportfishing consists of the odd creel survey at the dock. Not much data to go on so it is easy to downplay the impact of one's activities.
So, in spite of your opinion, this is not another stupid false claim about the catching power of sportfishing, and the impact on the resource compared to a few short years ago.

I do agree with you that sport fishing taking big fish because they are near shore is a stupid claim.


But what about fisherman like @Stizzla ? His impact is easy to measure.

But in all seriousness, I have trouble with the labeling of "sport fisherman". I go fishing and get food to feed my family. It's also something I enjoy much like hunting & gardening. I self identify as a "substance fisherman". So please respect my preferred pronoun.
 
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ILHG raises a good point, even if it is tongue in cheek (we’ve all read your awesome trip reports ILHG, it’s obvious you have the passion!). Jurisdictions like Alaska do recognize the difference between sport fishing for recreation and harvesting fish, shellfish, etc for food, and allow citizens to harvest food w/o sportfishing for it. While I don’t advocate that all Canadians be allowed to gillnet, seine or dip salmon like in Alaska, the access to a common, public resource whether you’re interested in the ”sport” of it, or not, is interesting food for thought. It would definitely put even more pressure on a resource though.

Cheers!

Ukee
 
Well, 35 years ago there were no sport fishing lodges at ( fill in the blank ) locations. The average sport fishing vessel was under 20 feet, and Chartplotters, radars and electric downriggers and pot pullers were not in the equation. Also sportfisherman did no Tuna fishing in Canadian waters, very little prawn fishing and very little halibut fishing.
As far as data goes, many commies have to fish with camera's on board, or observers, or they must fill in a log with locations and species kept and released. Their catch is then validated at the dock to ensure accuracy of data.
My sportfishing consists of the odd creel survey at the dock. Not much data to go on so it is easy to downplay the impact of one's activities.
So, in spite of your opinion, this is not another stupid false claim about the catching power of sportfishing, and the impact on the resource compared to a few short years ago.

I do agree with you that sport fishing taking big fish because they are near shore is a stupid claim.

Sounds like NGO argument. I will ask again where is your data to back your claims? I didn't ask about commercial.
 
Good to hear DFO is apparently listening to the input provided to address the industrialization of the fleet. I'm sure anyone who has worked in the commercial fishery can attest to how the catching power of the fleet increased over the years with more and better technology being advanced - the same is now happening in the 5 Nations fishery.
My comments were in regard to this issue raised by Searun and the industrialization of the commercial and 5 nations fishery. There is an obvious parallel in how industrialized the "sport" fleet has become too yet that is ignored in the context of catching power of the various parties.
Gone are the days when I was a kid chasing around salmon in a 12ft tinnie, a herring rake and.................... well that was it. At that time a big boat was a 16 foot tinnie and there were no chart plotters, GPS devices, radars, electric downriggers, pot pullers, lodges at the head of every inlet, self made guide ads all over the internet and facebook, etc etc etc. So industrialization of "the fleet" applies quite aptly to sport fishing too.
 
Yeah but that’s not what searun is talking about he’s talking about commercial fishermen in trollers fishing along side guys in small boats in the same fishery. A fishery that’s suppose to be a community based fishery with wide support not a few guys in trollers catching at the fish.

it’s like DFO saying the Rec sector can use what ever methods they want, in a derby style winner takes all and when the quota is taken the fishery is over.

obviously in a system like that the guy with the biggest boat and best method is gonna win the day.

the rec system is managed by daily individual limits.

I really don’t see the comparison between the five nation fishery management and rec fishery management.

all I see is a bunch of ranting about the public having acess to a fishery and how they take to much because they use electric Down riggers. If you feel that way don’t fish just go to the store and support a commercial fishermen.
 
If you feel that way don’t fish just go to the store and support a commercial fishermen.
Sadly I got tired of DFO's BS a number of years ago and switched to fresh water where there is no DFO and no seals to deal with.

"all I see is a bunch of ranting about the public having acess to a fishery and how they take to much because they use electric Down riggers."

I used to rant about such matters, I don't have the energy or inclination to do so anymore.
 
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But in all seriousness, I have trouble with the labeling of "sport fisherman". I go fishing and get food to feed my family.
For me it would be MUCH cheaper to buy the food for the family than the cost of operating, maintaining a boat and tackle to go catch it!!
I fish for the pleasure of being on the water, the sport and the challenge. Always been that way for me. Over 50 years of fishing.
 
Well, 35 years ago there were no sport fishing lodges at ( fill in the blank ) locations. The average sport fishing vessel was under 20 feet, and Chartplotters, radars and electric downriggers and pot pullers were not in the equation. Also sportfisherman did no Tuna fishing in Canadian waters, very little prawn fishing and very little halibut fishing.
As far as data goes, many commies have to fish with camera's on board, or observers, or they must fill in a log with locations and species kept and released. Their catch is then validated at the dock to ensure accuracy of data.
My sportfishing consists of the odd creel survey at the dock. Not much data to go on so it is easy to downplay the impact of one's activities.
So, in spite of your opinion, this is not another stupid false claim about the catching power of sportfishing, and the impact on the resource compared to a few short years ago.

I do agree with you that sport fishing taking big fish because they are near shore is a stupid claim.
What is “many commies have to fish with cameras “ mean? 10 %, 20% of the fleet?
 
Well, 35 years ago there were no sport fishing lodges at ( fill in the blank ) locations. The average sport fishing vessel was under 20 feet, and Chartplotters, radars and electric downriggers and pot pullers were not in the equation. Also sportfisherman did no Tuna fishing in Canadian waters, very little prawn fishing and very little halibut fishing.
As far as data goes, many commies have to fish with camera's on board, or observers, or they must fill in a log with locations and species kept and released. Their catch is then validated at the dock to ensure accuracy of data.
My sportfishing consists of the odd creel survey at the dock. Not much data to go on so it is easy to downplay the impact of one's activities.
So, in spite of your opinion, this is not another stupid false claim about the catching power of sportfishing, and the impact on the resource compared to a few short years ago.

I do agree with you that sport fishing taking big fish because they are near shore is a stupid claim.
Same can be said about commercial boats and gear, bigger, better, faster, and more efficient at their catching ,
lets not point fingers at gramps going out with his grandkids on his 20+ ft boat with a gps and scotty deeplines
 
But what about fisherman like @Stizzla ? His impact is easy to measure.

But in all seriousness, I have trouble with the labeling of "sport fisherman". I go fishing and get food to feed my family. It's also something I enjoy much like hunting & gardening. I self identify as a "substance fisherman". So please respect my preferred pronoun.
You hit on it with this post,
I will now identify myself as a
"sustenance/ subsistence fisher"


 
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Well, what I was trying to get at was the original 5 Nations fishery was designed to benefit the local communities by engaging small vessels using limited fishing technology to spread the benefits amoung the community members. By allowing a migration toward industrialized fishing technology what will happen now is the benefits will be vested with a decreasing segment of those communities, in much the same way that shifts in commercial fishing technology eventually led to fewer commercial fishers because the catching power of the commercial fleet expanded (due to technology) beyond the available resource.

The shift in fishing technology between the early days of commercial fishing and more modern technology is at the core of the point I was raising. It should be no surprise that shifts in technology led to shorter seasons and fewer people employed directly in the Commercial salmon fishery. The attached is a good read, outlining those shifts:

As this thread relates to how the recent Court decisions will shift the 5 Nations fishery, their benefits and more importantly how those benefits will be spread within these communities - my point is the fishing technology will lead to fewer individuals within these communities directly enjoying the benefits. But, if this is what the Nations want for their communities, who am I to tell them what to do other than I'm simply calling out this isn't what they sold to stakeholders when first embarking down the road of commercial sales using small artisanal vessels.

Picking up on a comment that the recreational fishery is landing more Chinook than the commercial fishery - that is simply not true. The WCVI AABM Chinook average landed catch between 2009 and 2016 the Commercial Troll landed catch was 81,596 vs recreational landed catch of 58,494. The salmon allocation policy with respect to Chinook during those years was Recreation had priority access before commercial, with FN FSC and Conservation being the top priority access.

Recreational effort has shifted and changed with evolving technology. Overall recreational effort has sharply declined since the 1980's, but it also has shifted from the SoG inside waters to more effort in the AABM outside waters. Those shifts are largely related to changing opportunities and expectation of catch. For example, the estimated South Coast recreational "boat days" effort was a little over 700,000 in 1986, then it drastically declined bottoming out in a relatively stable level around 200,000 boat days in 2006 to 2019. Covid did impact overall effort in 2020, and again that effort shifted from species like Chinook over to other species such as lingcod for example. So the data simply doesn't support the argument that recreational effort has exponentially increased with shifting technology.

And, from my observation over the years regardless of improvements in the fishing technology it still seems that 80% of the fish are caught by 20% of the vessels on the water.
 
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