Fish Farm trouble in BC.

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spopadyn said:
Thanks. Not exactly sure it is proof but alas all politicians are subject to being bought!
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention,
as long as there are large companies and corporations that are willing to act unethically and provide the bribes...
 
spopadyn said:
Probably of no interest to the hair on fire lot, but this is a pretty balanced look at the salmon farming industry by an independent group. It isn't promoting or condemning. In fact, it points to many ways the industry can improve. Personally, those are the areas I would be lobbying for. Also, it is recent and actually written by scientists without an agenda.


http://www.seafoodwatch.org/-/m/sfw/pdf/reports/s/mba_seafoodwatch_farmedbcsalmon_report.pdf
Click to expand...
What is of interest to recreational anglers is what PSF has said about this. So you see it's not black and white as you think.

PUBLIC STATEMENT
Friday, 22 September 2017
September 22, 2017
PUBLIC STATEMENT

PACIFIC SALMON FOUNDATION VIEWS “SEAFOOD WATCH’S” RATING OF B.C. OPEN-NET-PEN FARMED SALMON TO BE PREMATURE AND INAPPROPRIATE
Statement of PSF President and CEO Dr. Brian Riddell

“The Pacific Salmon Foundation (PSF) wishes to clarify the recent recommendationby the U.S.-based Seafood Watch and the BC Salmon Farmers that B.C. open-net-pen farmed salmon are now a good alternative seafood choice for consumers.

We believe that recommendation is premature and inappropriate because it incorrectly characterizes and relies upon the research results to date of PSF’s Strategic Salmon Health Initiative (SSHI). Started in 2013, the SSHI is a partnership between the Pacific Salmon Foundation, Genome BC and Fisheries and Oceans Canada. The purpose of the initiative is to clarify the presence and/or absence of microbes in Pacific salmon.
The SSHI is not yet complete, so there are no final conclusions yet regarding farmed Atlantic salmon or anything else. While progress to date includes no detections of reportable diseases as listed by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, there remain many valid questions relative to wild salmon health, and that is what the SSHI continues to study.

The SSHI research will continue and we have committed to communicate to the public any critical new information related to the health of wild Pacific salmon if and when it is found.”

Contact: Stephen Bruyneel, Pacific Salmon Foundation, sbruyneel@psf.ca, 604 842 1971
https://www.psf.ca/blog/public-statement
 
here's an interesting reference:

Interactions of Atlantic salmon in the Pacific Northwest
IV. Impacts on the local ecosystems
F. William Waknitz∗, Robert N. Iwamoto, Mark S. Strom
Northwest Fisheries Science Center, National Marine Fisheries Service, 2725 Montlake Boulevard East, Seattle, WA 98112, USA
Fisheries Research 62 (2003) 307–328
Published by Elsevier Science B.V.
doi:10.1016/S0165-7836(03)00066-3
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165783603000663
p. 314:
"...the planting of infected Atlantic salmon smolts from Norwegian federal salmon hatcheries into rivers in Norway was responsible for the introduction of the freshwater parasite Gyrodactylus salaris, which caused the extirpation of Atlantic salmon in many river systems (Johnsen and Jensen, 1988). The salmonid viral pathogen IHN (infectious hematopoietic necrosis) was introduced to Japan from a shipment of infected sockeye salmon eggs from a hatchery in Alaska, and subsequently caused epizootic mortality in Japanese chum salmon and in two species of landlocked salmon which occur only in Japan (McDaniel et al., 1994). In these two cases, the indigenous salmonids in Norway and Japan were exposed to novel pathogens to which they had little or no immunity."
 
spopadyn said:
Probably of no interest to the hair on fire lot, but this is a pretty balanced look at the salmon farming industry by an independent group. It isn't promoting or condemning. In fact, it points to many ways the industry can improve. Personally, those are the areas I would be lobbying for. Also, it is recent and actually written by scientists without an agenda.


http://www.seafoodwatch.org/-/m/sfw/pdf/reports/s/mba_seafoodwatch_farmedbcsalmon_report.pdf
Click to expand...

A score of 4.8 out of 10 would have been a fail at the school I went to....
good read. Don't agree with the yellow light rating though and a quick google search shows many other groups don't either.

So far just the last few days you've called us

"the hair on fire lot"
"narrow minded"
"idiots"
"echo warriors"
"climate warriors"
"juvenile"
"light our hair on fire"
"mouthing off"
and a few others I won't mention.

Just curious what your next round might be... ;)

maybe you can call us dumbasses... not sure if you've used that one yet.

that was the term these guys used..

http://www.moldychum.com/monterey-bay-seafood-watch-program/





Seafoodwatch... the same guys that yellowlighted wild steelhead on the west coast. sounds about right....

http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/2017/03/take-op-wild-steelhead-off-the-menu/
 
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This is what the well respected Dr. Brian Riddell of the Pacific Salmon Foundation stated about the recent Seafood Watch recommendation.... maybe not so balanced after all, premature according to the PSF for Seafood Watch to give a recommendation.

PSF Link: https://www.psf.ca/blog/public-statement

September 22, 2017
PUBLIC STATEMENT

PACIFIC SALMON FOUNDATION VIEWS “SEAFOOD WATCH’S” RATING OF B.C. OPEN-NET-PEN FARMED SALMON TO BE PREMATURE AND INAPPROPRIATE
Statement of PSF President and CEO Dr. Brian Riddell

“The Pacific Salmon Foundation (PSF) wishes to clarify the recent recommendation by the U.S.-based Seafood Watch and the BC Salmon Farmers that B.C. open-net-pen farmed salmon are now a good alternative seafood choice for consumers.

We believe that recommendation is premature and inappropriate because it incorrectly characterizes and relies upon the research results to date of PSF’s Strategic Salmon Health Initiative (SSHI). Started in 2013, the SSHI is a partnership between the Pacific Salmon Foundation, Genome BC and Fisheries and Oceans Canada. The purpose of the initiative is to clarify the presence and/or absence of microbes in Pacific salmon.

The SSHI is not yet complete, so there are no final conclusions yet regarding farmed Atlantic salmon or anything else. While progress to date includes no detections of reportable diseases as listed by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, there remain many valid questions relative to wild salmon health, and that is what the SSHI continues to study.

The SSHI research will continue and we have committed to communicate to the public any critical new information related to the health of wild Pacific salmon if and when it is found.”

Contact: Stephen Bruyneel, Pacific Salmon Foundation, sbruyneel@psf.ca, 604 842 1971
 
bigdogeh said:
A score of 4.8 out of 10 would have been a fail at the school I went too....

So far just the last few days you've called us

"the hair on fire lot"
"narrow minded"
"idiots"
"echo warriors"
"climate warriors"
"juvenile"
"light our hair on fire"
"mouthing off"
and a few others I won't mention.

Just curious what your next round might be... ;)

maybe you can call us dumbasses...

that was the term these guys used..

http://www.moldychum.com/monterey-bay-seafood-watch-program/





Seafoodwatch... the same guys that yellowlighted wild steelhead on the west coast. sounds about right....

http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/2017/03/take-op-wild-steelhead-off-the-menu/
Click to expand...

Thanks for proving my point. I provide a scientific paper which outlines the issues and concerns around FF. You ask a couple of guys in a pickup truck whats their opinion?
 
Whole in the Water said:
This is what the respected Pacific Salmon Foundation stated about the recent Seafood Watch recommendation.... maybe not so balanced after all, premature according to the PSF for Seafood Watch to give a recommendation.

PSF Link: https://www.psf.ca/blog/public-statement

September 22, 2017
PUBLIC STATEMENT

PACIFIC SALMON FOUNDATION VIEWS “SEAFOOD WATCH’S” RATING OF B.C. OPEN-NET-PEN FARMED SALMON TO BE PREMATURE AND INAPPROPRIATE
Statement of PSF President and CEO Dr. Brian Riddell

“The Pacific Salmon Foundation (PSF) wishes to clarify the recent recommendation by the U.S.-based Seafood Watch and the BC Salmon Farmers that B.C. open-net-pen farmed salmon are now a good alternative seafood choice for consumers.

We believe that recommendation is premature and inappropriate because it incorrectly characterizes and relies upon the research results to date of PSF’s Strategic Salmon Health Initiative (SSHI). Started in 2013, the SSHI is a partnership between the Pacific Salmon Foundation, Genome BC and Fisheries and Oceans Canada. The purpose of the initiative is to clarify the presence and/or absence of microbes in Pacific salmon.

The SSHI is not yet complete, so there are no final conclusions yet regarding farmed Atlantic salmon or anything else. While progress to date includes no detections of reportable diseases as listed by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, there remain many valid questions relative to wild salmon health, and that is what the SSHI continues to study.

The SSHI research will continue and we have committed to communicate to the public any critical new information related to the health of wild Pacific salmon if and when it is found.”

Contact: Stephen Bruyneel, Pacific Salmon Foundation, sbruyneel@psf.ca, 604 842 1971
Click to expand...

Not saying they are wrong, they could be right. But, the science is far from complete. The best studies to date are not supporting the idea of the abolition of FF. Look, I don't have a dog in this fight , I don't work for FF industry, and I am not a consumer of their product. I also don't shop at Walmart but that doesn't give me a right to ask for the banning of all Walmart's because of my bias. My feelings about Walmart are probably less favourable then many people feel about FF. Yes, Walmart sells products that were not ethically manufactured. However, no laws have been broken and rather than running Walmart out of business, I would like to support initiatives to make them better. Same analogy for the FF industry.
 
agentaqua said:
here's an interesting reference:

Interactions of Atlantic salmon in the Pacific Northwest
IV. Impacts on the local ecosystems
F. William Waknitz∗, Robert N. Iwamoto, Mark S. Strom
Northwest Fisheries Science Center, National Marine Fisheries Service, 2725 Montlake Boulevard East, Seattle, WA 98112, USA
Fisheries Research 62 (2003) 307–328
Published by Elsevier Science B.V.
doi:10.1016/S0165-7836(03)00066-3
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165783603000663
p. 314:
"...the planting of infected Atlantic salmon smolts from Norwegian federal salmon hatcheries into rivers in Norway was responsible for the introduction of the freshwater parasite Gyrodactylus salaris, which caused the extirpation of Atlantic salmon in many river systems (Johnsen and Jensen, 1988). The salmonid viral pathogen IHN (infectious hematopoietic necrosis) was introduced to Japan from a shipment of infected sockeye salmon eggs from a hatchery in Alaska, and subsequently caused epizootic mortality in Japanese chum salmon and in two species of landlocked salmon which occur only in Japan (McDaniel et al., 1994). In these two cases, the indigenous salmonids in Norway and Japan were exposed to novel pathogens to which they had little or no immunity."
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link AA. I wonder if the viruses and parasites the Open Cage Fish Farms here in B.C. are inflicting on all the Wild Salmon smolts that swim by their facilities causing the extirpation and epizootic mortality we are witnessing here as has happened there?
 
spopadyn said:
...rather than running Walmart out of business, I would like to support initiatives to make them better. Same analogy for the FF industry.
Click to expand...
Well both CC and an EA would "make them better" - haven't yet read your agreements w those initiatives.
spopadyn said:
Thanks for proving my point. I provide a scientific paper which outlines the issues and concerns around FF. You ask a couple of guys in a pickup truck whats their opinion?
Click to expand...
And as far as pick-up trucks go I am assuming that Dr. Brian Riddell probably has ridden in one before - along with boats, helicopters, cars, airplanes, maybe even an odd horse or 2.....
 
terrin said:
Thanks for the link AA. I wonder if the viruses and parasites the Open Cage Fish Farms here in B.C. are inflicting on all the Wild Salmon smolts that swim by their facilities causing the extirpation and epizootic mortality we are witnessing here as has happened there?
Click to expand...
Otta sight - otta mind - right? I think one of the key phrases I bolded from the above article was: "were exposed to novel pathogens to which they had little or no immunity." That's been one of the points I keep trying to highlight, as well wrt disease risk assessment and management. I think European/Norwegian ISAv/PRV might apply here...
 
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spopadyn said:
Not saying they are wrong, they could be right. But, the science is far from complete. The best studies to date are not supporting the idea of the abolition of FF. Look, I don't have a dog in this fight , I don't work for FF industry, and I am not a consumer of their product. I also don't shop at Walmart but that doesn't give me a right to ask for the banning of all Walmart's because of my bias. My feelings about Walmart are probably less favourable then many people feel about FF. Yes, Walmart sells products that were not ethically manufactured. However, no laws have been broken and rather than running Walmart out of business, I would like to support initiatives to make them better. Same analogy for the FF industry.
Click to expand...

Many, myself included, do NOT want to abolish fish farms as they have a place for several reasons. Many of us do want to abolish water based, net pen fish farms and move the industry to in water, closed containment systems, or even better land based farms where their documented negative environmental impacts can be better managed.

Hope that clears this up.
 
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spopadyn said:
Thanks for proving my point. I provide a scientific paper which outlines the issues and concerns around FF. You ask a couple of guys in a pickup truck whats their opinion?
Click to expand...

Actually, I didn't ask anyone anything... just thought it was a comical link seeing you seem to like to use words that may demean others that might make you feel better about yourself or superior.
It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. (the other links were though)
guess you didn't get it... oh well.
 
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terrin said:
Thanks for the link AA. I wonder if the viruses and parasites the Open Cage Fish Farms here in B.C. are inflicting on all the Wild Salmon smolts that swim by their facilities causing the extirpation and epizootic mortality we are witnessing here as has happened there?
Click to expand...
This might help answer that.

Global fisheries landings ceased increasing decades ago, causing an increasing shortfall in wild seafood supply and an expansion of aquaculture. The abundance of domesticated fishes now dwarfs related wild fishes in some coastal seas, changing the dynamics of their infectious diseases. Transport and trade of seafood, feed, eggs, and broodstock bring pathogens into new regions and into contact with naïve hosts. Density-dependent transmission creates threshold effects where disease can abruptly switch from endemic to epizootic dynamics. Hydrodynamics allow pathogens to disperse broadly, interconnecting farms into metapopulations of domesticated host fish in regions that also support related species of wild fish. Spillover and spillback dynamics of pathogen transmission between wild and farmed fish can create novel transmission pathways or bioamplify pathogen abundance, potentially depressing or endangering wild fish. Mortality from natural predator–prey interactions may be synergistic or compensatory with these increased infections. Domestic environments may favour the evolution of undesirable pathogen traits, such as virulence and drug resistance, leading to the emergence of strains that cause high mortality and (or) evade treatment. Overall, these changes to the dynamics of infectious disease in coastal seas impose new constraints on the sustainability of both wild and farmed fish.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2016-0379#.Wib627anGUk
 
Another anti Fish Farm petition you might want to check out...
https://www.watershed-watch.org/victoria-motion-to-ban-fish-farms/?sp_ref=363602729.392.184836.f.0.2
Victoria Motion on Fish Farms
Tavish Campbell’s disgusting video of virus-infected blood from farmed salmon pouring into B.C. waters has made international headlines and politicians are paying attention.
Victoria City Councillors Ben Isitt and Jeremy Loveday want all B.C. municipalities to tell the Province to get fish farms out of B.C. waters and they urgently need our support.
 
I think this is saying there are at least 2 Harrison River sockeye stocks, one of which spends very little time in freshwater and is rated not at risk, and another with perhaps a different life history. Anyone out there have some more info on this other stock?
 
Dave said:
I think this is saying there are at least 2 Harrison River sockeye stocks, one of which spends very little time in freshwater and is rated not at risk, and another with perhaps a different life history. Anyone out there have some more info on this other stock?
Click to expand...
Good question, Dave. Maybe the abbreviation "U/S" means "upstream" (from the Lake) spawners?

From: Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat Pacific Region Science Response 2016/021: Pre-Season Run Size for Fraser River Sockeye Salmon 2016 http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/ScR-RS/2016/2016_021-eng.html

Summer Run Stocks

In most years, the Summer Run stocks dominate total Fraser Sockeye returns. Six stocks in this timing group are forecast using the standard suite of forecast models: Chilko, Late Stuart, Quesnel, Stellako and the recently added Raft and Harrison (Table 1A).

Harrison (Harrison-River Type CU): Recently re-assigned from Late Run Group to the Summer group Harrison Sockeye have a unique life history and age structure compared to other Fraser Sockeye stocks. They migrate to the ocean shortly after gravel emergence (most Fraser Sockeye rear in lakes for one year after gravel emergence prior to their ocean migration). After two to three years in the ocean, Harrison Sockeye return as three or four year old fish (most Fraser Sockeye return as four and five year old fish). Proportions of three and four year old Harrison recruits vary considerably annually, with four year old proportions ranging from 10% to 90% of total recruits (Grant et al. 2010). Odd brood years, on average, produce a higher proportion of four year old recruits, and even years produce a similar proportion of three year old recruits (Grant et al. 2010). Though the difference in odd versus even year age proportions is accounted for in the Harrison forecast models (MacDonald & Grant 2012), the extreme variation in age-at-maturity for Harrison Sockeye increases the level of forecast uncertainty for this stock.

Late Run Stocks

The Late Run consists of five forecasted stocks (Cultus, Late Shuswap, Portage, Weaver, and Birkenhead) and one miscellaneous stock (miscellaneous non-Shuswap including Harrison stocks that migrate downstream to Harrison Lake as fry to rear in this lake) (Table 1A);

Miscellaneous Harrison/Lillooet Lakes (Harrison (downstream)-L) The 2012 brood year EFS for the miscellaneous Harrison/Lillooet Lake stocks is 1,400 (Table 1B, column C). Populations included in this group include those that rear in the Harrison-Lillooet Lake system, and are not included in the Harrison or Birkenhead forecasts (Big Silver, Cogburn, Crazy, Douglas, Green, Pemberton, Pool, Railroad/Sampson, Ryan, Sloquet and Tipella Creeks).

Weaver (Harrison (U/S)-L CU) The 2012 brood year escapement for Weaver (400 EFS) was the smallest escapement on record, falling well below the cycle average (1968-2012: 18,300 EFS) (Table 1B, column C). Spawning success in Weaver Channel (89%) was similar to average (90%); however, spawning success in Weaver Creek (61%) was well below average (87%). Early freshwater survival in the 2012 brood year (1,000 fry/EFS) was below average (1966-2012 average: 1,600 fry/EFS), and the resulting juvenile abundance (470,000 fry) was also below average (1966-2012 average: 31 million fry). The 2011 brood year escapement for Weaver (24,500 EFS) was larger than the cycle average (1967-2011: 18,300 EFS) (Table 1B, column D). Early freshwater survival in the 2011 brood year (1,600 fry/EFS) was identical to average (1966-2012 average: 1,600 fry/EFS), and juvenile abundance (39 million fry) was above average (1966-2012 average: 31 million fry).

Average (geometric) four year old survival (R/EFS) for Weaver Sockeye has been variable, with the largest peak of 41.8 R/EFS occurring in the late-1960 brood years (four year average at peak). This stock has not exhibited systematic survival trends through time (Grant et al. 2011; Peterman & Dorner 2012). Similar to other stocks, however, Weaver exhibited one of its lowest survivals on record (2.6 R/EFS) in the 2005 brood year (i.e. 2009 four year old return year) (Table 2, columns B to E; Figure 3). In the most recent generation (2007 to 2010 brood years), the average survival (15.0 R/EFS) has been above the long-term average (12.2 R/EFS). Amongst all Fraser Sockeye stocks, this stock exhibited exceptionally poor returns in 2015. Interestingly, this stock was not detected at the Mission smolt program or Strait of Georgia surveys in the 2013 outmigration year in expected proportions based on brood year escapements (DFO 2015b). The 2011 brood year fry assessments indicated average egg-to-fry survival, so one potential hypothesis is that lake rearing conditions were poor in this brood year, assuming there was no bias in the Mission or SOG sampling programs in 2013. These fish would have moved into Harrison Lake 1.5 years after the large Meager Creek landslide in 2010.
 
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