Federal Government Approves Kinder Morgan and Line 3

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Thanks for the support CVMike and GLG.

I understand that at times - the number of news stories that pop-up can seem overwhelming to some. That's why I post the tag line and the link - usually not the article. Learning to deal with information overload is a bit of a learned skill set. Read if you want to - ignore it - if not. Pretty simple. Some people may decide to - and may benefit from that information.

As far as the "fishing" question - the reason I do not respond to that - is because my sense of self-worth is not tied-up in someone else's approval. That must be quite a monkey on one's back - to not feel worthy unless you meet someone elses' version of what they feel is worthy. I am secure in my skill set and my relationship with fish is very personal (like others on this forum) - and I'm not buying into someone else's approval process.

Back to the topic about what this thread is about...pipelines...
 
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...If people don't want pipelines you have to look at entire picture. The pipelines are only there because the Costco, Walmarts etc have flooded cheap products made faster and cheaper. We effectively took all our jobs and gave them to China, and now we are going to feed that growth with energy , so again we can get more cheaper and faster. The cost of environment is all of our faults.

In the US I am not a fan of Trump but the bringing manufacturing back to North America is good idea. That would be the first step if want to control pipeline and tanker expansion. Also maybe we should stick with our phone for maybe more than a month before getting a new iphone? Just another perspective to think about.
As SV correctly and eloquently pointed-out.. the same way I've always felt about these trade deals - see interview below:

Sunday December 11, 2016
Scrapping free trade could make Canada great again
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/you-...trade-could-make-canada-great-again-1.3886421
 
That's one guy's opinion. He says NAFTA created a race to the bottom, but any competitive free enterprise system can be viewed as a race to the bottom. Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" is the granddaddy of all economics texts, and what he wrote 240 years ago is still true: economies are less efficient when disrupted by monopolies and special interest lobby groups. Putting tariffs on certain imports is very much a special interest interference in the market. Let's take the lumber industry as an example.

US lumber mills fought for and won a countervailing duty on BC softwoods in the most recent softwood lumber war 2004-09, but ultimately it cost them dearly. The duty was repeatedly declared to be unwarranted (by WTO and NAFTA) and most of the monies collected were eventually returned to Canadian producers. In the meantime, mills on this side of the border consolidated locations and invested in ultra-modern equipment to push production costs as low as possible in order to survive; American owners preferred to take profits and for the most part did not modernise. When the duties came off, the American mills were completely exposed and there were numerous mill closures. Several of these were subsequently purchased by Canadian lumber companies (Canfor and West Fraser both now own more mills in the US than in Canada). Five years of profits didn't shelter those mills from their structurally uncompetitive position. There's an example of industry-driven tariff protection backfiring and having the opposite effect of that intended.

I support everyone's right to a decent job, and that means everyone on the planet. Is it wrong that Mexico now (finally) has a middle class because of the manufacturing plants that opened there since NAFTA? They still haven't seen the GDP and per-capita incomes they were promised going into NAFTA, but they've achieved a level of dignity that didn't exist a quarter of a century ago. Likewise for China, a couple of hundred million people there now have a living standard streets ahead of anything they could have hoped for 40 years ago. Why should middle class lifestyles be limited to just the wealthy white countries? Protecting "good jobs", I know what that means. It means using tax dollars and other government intervention so that dudes with barely a high school diploma can keep on tightening nuts at Ford or GM or Chrysler for $120K a year. It's patently unsustainable, but no one wants to admit it because it's 'unpatriotic', not to mention virtual suicide if you're a politician. But when we take the nationalist rhetoric out of the equation, what we are seeing is a slow spread of wealth across the planet. It's far from equitable, but it's a start.

Henry Ford paid his production line workers more than the normal semi-skilled wages of the day because he needed to create a class of people who could afford to buy his products. He had a car at a price point lower than anyone else, but still very few people could afford to buy their own car. That is no longer applicable in north america, but very true in many other regions of the globe. The growing middle classes in China, Brazil, Korea and Mexico now have real buying power. There are huge trade opportunities for developed economies, but the jobs produced won't look like the "good jobs" of old. The world owes no one a living, if things are changing and your livelihood is under threat, then take steps to protect it. Education, re-certification, relocation, downsizing, whatever it takes. We humans are the product of evolution and as such we need to keep evolving. Fighting these massive global forces is pointless. Instead of focusing on the flaws in TPP and NAFTA, work on keeping your job/business and your family secure and provided for.
 
That's one guy's opinion. He says NAFTA created a race to the bottom, but any competitive free enterprise system can be viewed as a race to the bottom. Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" is the granddaddy of all economics texts, and what he wrote 240 years ago is still true: economies are less efficient when disrupted by monopolies and special interest lobby groups. Putting tariffs on certain imports is very much a special interest interference in the market. Let's take the lumber industry as an example.

US lumber mills fought for and won a countervailing duty on BC softwoods in the most recent softwood lumber war 2004-09, but ultimately it cost them dearly. The duty was repeatedly declared to be unwarranted (by WTO and NAFTA) and most of the monies collected were eventually returned to Canadian producers. In the meantime, mills on this side of the border consolidated locations and invested in ultra-modern equipment to push production costs as low as possible in order to survive; American owners preferred to take profits and for the most part did not modernise. When the duties came off, the American mills were completely exposed and there were numerous mill closures. Several of these were subsequently purchased by Canadian lumber companies (Canfor and West Fraser both now own more mills in the US than in Canada). Five years of profits didn't shelter those mills from their structurally uncompetitive position. There's an example of industry-driven tariff protection backfiring and having the opposite effect of that intended.

I support everyone's right to a decent job, and that means everyone on the planet. Is it wrong that Mexico now (finally) has a middle class because of the manufacturing plants that opened there since NAFTA? They still haven't seen the GDP and per-capita incomes they were promised going into NAFTA, but they've achieved a level of dignity that didn't exist a quarter of a century ago. Likewise for China, a couple of hundred million people there now have a living standard streets ahead of anything they could have hoped for 40 years ago. Why should middle class lifestyles be limited to just the wealthy white countries? Protecting "good jobs", I know what that means. It means using tax dollars and other government intervention so that dudes with barely a high school diploma can keep on tightening nuts at Ford or GM or Chrysler for $120K a year. It's patently unsustainable, but no one wants to admit it because it's 'unpatriotic', not to mention virtual suicide if you're a politician. But when we take the nationalist rhetoric out of the equation, what we are seeing is a slow spread of wealth across the planet. It's far from equitable, but it's a start.

Henry Ford paid his production line workers more than the normal semi-skilled wages of the day because he needed to create a class of people who could afford to buy his products. He had a car at a price point lower than anyone else, but still very few people could afford to buy their own car. That is no longer applicable in north america, but very true in many other regions of the globe. The growing middle classes in China, Brazil, Korea and Mexico now have real buying power. There are huge trade opportunities for developed economies, but the jobs produced won't look like the "good jobs" of old. The world owes no one a living, if things are changing and your livelihood is under threat, then take steps to protect it. Education, re-certification, relocation, downsizing, whatever it takes. We humans are the product of evolution and as such we need to keep evolving. Fighting these massive global forces is pointless. Instead of focusing on the flaws in TPP and NAFTA, work on keeping your job/business and your family secure and provided for.

So how do you keep the unions from pricing themselves out of the market. They are in a market now and keep driving up the labor costs. When will they break the market???
 
That's one guy's opinion. He says NAFTA created a race to the bottom, but any competitive free enterprise system can be viewed as a race to the bottom. Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations" is the granddaddy of all economics texts, and what he wrote 240 years ago is still true: economies are less efficient when disrupted by monopolies and special interest lobby groups. Putting tariffs on certain imports is very much a special interest interference in the market. Let's take the lumber industry as an example.

US lumber mills fought for and won a countervailing duty on BC softwoods in the most recent softwood lumber war 2004-09, but ultimately it cost them dearly. The duty was repeatedly declared to be unwarranted (by WTO and NAFTA) and most of the monies collected were eventually returned to Canadian producers. In the meantime, mills on this side of the border consolidated locations and invested in ultra-modern equipment to push production costs as low as possible in order to survive; American owners preferred to take profits and for the most part did not modernise. When the duties came off, the American mills were completely exposed and there were numerous mill closures. Several of these were subsequently purchased by Canadian lumber companies (Canfor and West Fraser both now own more mills in the US than in Canada). Five years of profits didn't shelter those mills from their structurally uncompetitive position. There's an example of industry-driven tariff protection backfiring and having the opposite effect of that intended.

I support everyone's right to a decent job, and that means everyone on the planet. Is it wrong that Mexico now (finally) has a middle class because of the manufacturing plants that opened there since NAFTA? They still haven't seen the GDP and per-capita incomes they were promised going into NAFTA, but they've achieved a level of dignity that didn't exist a quarter of a century ago. Likewise for China, a couple of hundred million people there now have a living standard streets ahead of anything they could have hoped for 40 years ago. Why should middle class lifestyles be limited to just the wealthy white countries? Protecting "good jobs", I know what that means. It means using tax dollars and other government intervention so that dudes with barely a high school diploma can keep on tightening nuts at Ford or GM or Chrysler for $120K a year. It's patently unsustainable, but no one wants to admit it because it's 'unpatriotic', not to mention virtual suicide if you're a politician. But when we take the nationalist rhetoric out of the equation, what we are seeing is a slow spread of wealth across the planet. It's far from equitable, but it's a start.

Henry Ford paid his production line workers more than the normal semi-skilled wages of the day because he needed to create a class of people who could afford to buy his products. He had a car at a price point lower than anyone else, but still very few people could afford to buy their own car. That is no longer applicable in north america, but very true in many other regions of the globe. The growing middle classes in China, Brazil, Korea and Mexico now have real buying power. There are huge trade opportunities for developed economies, but the jobs produced won't look like the "good jobs" of old. The world owes no one a living, if things are changing and your livelihood is under threat, then take steps to protect it. Education, re-certification, relocation, downsizing, whatever it takes. We humans are the product of evolution and as such we need to keep evolving. Fighting these massive global forces is pointless. Instead of focusing on the flaws in TPP and NAFTA, work on keeping your job/business and your family secure and provided for.
Funny how difficult it is to create a middle-class worldwide, yet so easy to establish a new uber wealthy class? Who'd have guessed back in the 60's that billionaire's from the Freedom Loving Workers of the People's Republic of China would be buying high end Vancouver Real Estate?
 
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Rachel Notley: The Kinder Morgan Interview
Bill Tieleman sits down with Alberta’s premier to talk pipelines, climate change and jobs.
xBill-Tieleman-Bio_square_thumb.jpeg.pagespeed.ic.eYbkBgp21B.jpg
By Bill Tieleman Today | TheTyee.ca
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2016/12/13/Rachel-Notley-Kinder-Morgan-Interview/
 
So how do you keep the unions from pricing themselves out of the market. They are in a market now and keep driving up the labor costs. When will they break the market???
They already have! Their stronghold in north america was in manufacturing industries and we all know how that sector has done in the past 30 years. Their safe place now is service industries, teachers and nurses are the largest unions these days. Employers will always look to lower labour costs, whether by automating or by relocating production to lower cost regions. Unions will always try to counter this because those member dues are their oxygen.
 
I love the first sentence of that article above @agentaqua

"A ramped up oil spill response could mean more jobs for Vancouver Island and Vancouver."

This typifies the economic argument made for many of the proponents of these projects which is to include the spill response jobs as an "economic" plus to help show that their projects are in Canada's best economic interest. They of course fail to include the loss of jobs in tourism/seafood production/etc that will also be related to project approvals. When a successful spill recovery is 10% of the crap spilled you know it is NOT something that can be cleaned up and that the only way to not f*ck up the environment is to not have spills in the first place... and given the track record of the industry that just aint gonna happen.
 
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