Federal Government Approves Kinder Morgan and Line 3

[terrin]

According to the article below millions of cubic metres of raw logs are being exported and the number has been growing since 2000? To say exporting the logs to Asia kept people working is no doubt true, the question is were those people mostly in Asia or Canada? Surely we can mill lumber here as well as they can over there? If the end game was finished lumber, we should have been selling that, not the logs.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/logs+lumber+topic+East+Asian+trade+mission/10271459/story.html

Thats exactly what the Russians did. No more raw log exports to China.

 

[bigbruce]

For the record, Stephen Harper is not a lawyer. As the article AA posted, but apparently did not read, indicates, Harper has set up a consulting firm called "Harper and Associates Consulting Inc."
Wouldn't want to give the legal profession a worse reputation that it already has...

 

[Ringo]

For the record, Stephen Harper is not a lawyer. As the article AA posted, but apparently did not read, indicates, Harper has set up a consulting firm called "Harper and Associates Consulting Inc."
Wouldn't want to give the legal profession a worse reputation that it already has...

Good point
Nevertheless, Stevie and his 'associates' are double dipping. They're milking the pension funds and also selling 'consulting' services to multi nationals. End result is not different...

 

[agentaqua]

For the record, Stephen Harper is not a lawyer. As the article AA posted, but apparently did not read, indicates, Harper has set up a consulting firm called "Harper and Associates Consulting Inc."Wouldn't want to give the legal profession a worse reputation that it already has...

Ha! Thanks again for your attention to detail, BB! he's an "economist", rather... (and a career politician)...

 

[sly_karma]

Just want to mention there will be no ULCCs or VLCCs entering Vancouver Harbour. Our port is incapable of receiving massive tankers due to the draft, air draft, and channel width constraints of first and second narrows. The largest tankers we will see are just slightly bigger than Panamax ships.
Sorry to geek out on you, just saying.

That's something, thanks for the info. I wonder if that will make exports from Burrard Inlet competitive with world oil? I don't know the dollar figures between crude coming from different production basins around the world, but I've read that the oil sands and the fracked oil from the Dakotas have pretty high extraction costs compared to simple drilled well product from the middle east. You have higher extraction costs, less efficient shipping logistics, and a raw product that is more expensive to refine (dilbit). There's been lots of speculation that the main reason for OPEC's prolonged resistance to production limits has been to put the hurt on the high-cost producers in north america by keeping global prices low. And in another 15-20 years - well inside the life span of Kinder Morgan expansion - the price of electric cars will dip below that of their gas equivalents, which will cause a steady and permanent reduction in oil prices. Will these mega projects be financially viable? Construction costs will barely have been recovered at that point.

 

[bigbruce]

Good point
Nevertheless, Stevie and his 'associates' are double dipping. They're milking the pension funds and also selling 'consulting' services to multi nationals. End result is not different...

Harper won't "milk" the pension funds until he turns 65, so he's not "double dipping" now. Anyway, I sure hope you're not suggesting that anyone who receives a pension isn't allowed to work any more.

 

[Ringo]

I sure am NOT suggesting that. What's questionable to me is that a high profile political figure stays in power for almost a decade and then after that he jumps right into the corporate world. Anyhow, this thread is not about Harper or the politicians' career choices. At a higher level, our democracy has some loop holes and those at the top of the political food chain have learned how to use them.

 

[GLG]

That's something, thanks for the info. I wonder if that will make exports from Burrard Inlet competitive with world oil? I don't know the dollar figures between crude coming from different production basins around the world, but I've read that the oil sands and the fracked oil from the Dakotas have pretty high extraction costs compared to simple drilled well product from the middle east. You have higher extraction costs, less efficient shipping logistics, and a raw product that is more expensive to refine (dilbit). There's been lots of speculation that the main reason for OPEC's prolonged resistance to production limits has been to put the hurt on the high-cost producers in north america by keeping global prices low. And in another 15-20 years - well inside the life span of Kinder Morgan expansion - the price of electric cars will dip below that of their gas equivalents, which will cause a steady and permanent reduction in oil prices. Will these mega projects be financially viable? Construction costs will barely have been recovered at that point.

Those cost are going to be coming down and this industry wants to expand and try to grab market share on the world market. They will do anything to make that happen as I think they see the death spiral coming and are trying to get ahead of the game. Personally I think it's the wrong move.

Here is a link to cbc that explains how the costs will come down. As you can see labour is not high in the mind for these companies that say they need this pipeline for the jobs, jobs, jobs.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ss-trucks-will-haul-away-their-jobs-1.3832921

 

[agentaqua]

Kinder Morgan and the myth of national interest
By Wes Regan in Opinion | December 2nd 2016
http://www.nationalobserver.com/2016/12/02/opinion/kinder-morgan-and-myth-national-interest

 

[agentaqua]

Privatizing Canada’s Ports An ‘Invitation for More Conflict’ on Fossil Fuel Exports
By James Wilt • Thursday, December 1, 2016
https://www.desmog.ca/2016/12/01/pr...-invitation-more-conflict-fossil-fuel-exports

 

[sly_karma]

@GLG - good post. The proponents keep talking about job, but where are the longterm jobs? Construction jobs, sure, but those are short term and that sector is already short of skilled workers as it is - you can bet there will be more than a few foreign workers brought in to complete this project. Longterm though, a few people in maintenance. Monitoring is largely automated. Resource extraction, pretty clear that jobs there are shrinking too as technology offers alternatives that don't expect $200K a year with just a high school diploma.

 

[agentaqua]

‘To the Ends of the Earth’: Screening in Vancouver Soon
A documentary on the end of extreme energy extraction.
http://thetyee.ca/Video/2016/12/02/Ends-of-the-Earth/

 

[fishin solo]

Enough with the cut and paste it gets annoying. Half the time you don't even read what your posting. Give it a rest please

 

[agentaqua]

Saturday November 19, 2016
Scientists to PM: limited, biased science threatens Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/envi...ted-biased-science-threatens-canada-1.3857632

 

[terrin]

Harper won't "milk" the pension funds until he turns 65, so he's not "double dipping" now. Anyway, I sure hope you're not suggesting that anyone who receives a pension isn't allowed to work any more.

It's double dipping anuway you slice it. Check to see how many 50 year old Sky train cops are collecting full pensions from the taxpayer and collecting points for their next pension. If they work in a totally unrelated field no problem.

 

[GLG]

Enough with the cut and paste it gets annoying. Half the time you don't even read what your posting. Give it a rest please

Personally I like AA links in his post ... your criticism of him.... not so much. If your so annoyed then you are free not to read them. May I suggest you stick to the threads that argue for or against a 6ft leader length.

 

[fishin solo]

Personally I like AA links in his post ... your criticism of him.... not so much. If your so annoyed then you are free not to read them. May I suggest you stick to the threads that argue for or against a 6ft leader length.[/QU

whole point of a forum is for discussions for people to participate in. Cut and pasteing non stop is not participating. It's one thing to post a link to supporting your point of view but **** the guy posts links all day long and doesn't read them half the time and ends up contradicting himself. That's not participation that's plain ignorance. Scrolling pages on a thread to actually see what someone has written to get past the links gets annoying. Start a thread with just links ffs

 

[ziggy]

Personally I like AA links in his post ... your criticism of him.... not so much. If your so annoyed then you are free not to read them. May I suggest you stick to the threads that argue for or against a 6ft leader length.

Wow, you mean the ones about actually fishing? You're coming off a little harsh lol. To suggest anyone go elsewhere, because they disagreed with your opinion, would suggest a lack of will to hear what others think?

 

[CVmike]

For what it's worth, I have to tip my hat to AA. He manages to keep a level head and stay reasonable at all times, and meanwhile some of you get choked up over a couple of links, or make it your personal buisness whether he fishes or not. Politcal views aside that sort of patience is admirable.

 

[GLG]

LOL my "alerts" button just lite up like a christmas tree..... just saying that it's one thing to disagree with someone but it's different to make it personal criticism. I know we all get that way sometimes but shall we not try to be a bit more civil ...... I thought what I posted was a humorous way to make that point. Sorry if you folks took offence.