Dan The Man
Active Member
I've always used cannon balls with fins, what is the difference between cannon balls with fins and without fins?
Thx Daniel
Thx Daniel
Downrigger Balls
- Thread starter Dan The Man
- Start date
wolf
Well-Known Member
????????????????????
They are if you bend the fin but if not they run straighter and less drag pancake has less surface hitting the water where a round one has more.it is a personal preferance put a 12 SS fin one down on one side and a round one and you will see the difference.
wolf
They are if you bend the fin but if not they run straighter and less drag pancake has less surface hitting the water where a round one has more.it is a personal preferance put a 12 SS fin one down on one side and a round one and you will see the difference.
wolf
H
HSM542
Guest
I've found the pancake weights with fins really get pushed sideways alot with a side current, way more under your boat on one side than the round balls with a smaller fin. I thought the pancakes would work great, however it did not take long to go back to round balls in the salt for straighter tracking. Pancake weights do work great on freshwater lakes.
Sushihunter
Active Member
The round ball weight is the most efficient shape in the water as it has less surface area than a pancake or any other shape. Simple physics.
Pancake weights will wobble and vibrate because the water has more effect on them. They are also rediculously expensive now with the price of lead going up as they are more difficult to make with the SS fin.
I like the round ball with the small cast fin as you get the best most efficent shape with a small fin to prevent spinning.
You can bend the pancake weights to have them swing out farther from the sides of the boat if you have a problem wtih lines fouling. Pancakes also flutter if you let them down too fast (Happens quite a bit fishing plugs at Swiftsure).
15 Pound Rounds all day long
15 Pound Rounds all day long
H
HSM542
Guest
Tried bending the fins on the pancakes, they worked fine away from the boat during slack tides, but the surface area on the flat sides was too much and still pushed the weight far too much with a side current. There really is no comparison between them and round balls with smaller fins.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
I love my 12lb pancake's w/ ss fins...
kick the fin out a little on each side and they track apart
from each other, with far less tangles
kick the fin out a little on each side and they track apart
from each other, with far less tangles
wolf
Well-Known Member
I beg to differ so a 12lb with a 6 inch SS fin with less than 2" surface hitting the water while trolling has the same or more drag than a 12 round which is more than 4 " wide if we are talking physics ummmmmm something wrong there!!!!!!!!
Same as 50 lb tuff line and 80 lb test mono Im thinking less surface area is going to create less drag.
If you got a pancake weight going too sideways you have bent the fin way too much all you need is a tweak not a bend less than a 1/4 of an inch any more and you will have tracking problems you have to experimant with it to find what works for you. I have been running SS 12 for over 20 years and dont have a problem never seen one "flutter" before so dont know what that is?????
As for out on the bank I have seen round ones,finned ones,torpedo go all over the place that place has its own unique current it is all over the shop thats why its calle the carmanaah triangle.
If your fishing 100 ft and above no problem with either weights just make sure you have really good swivals on them. and good wire because if thats the price now OMG make sure every thing is in tip top shape!!!!!
Wolf
Same as 50 lb tuff line and 80 lb test mono Im thinking less surface area is going to create less drag.
If you got a pancake weight going too sideways you have bent the fin way too much all you need is a tweak not a bend less than a 1/4 of an inch any more and you will have tracking problems you have to experimant with it to find what works for you. I have been running SS 12 for over 20 years and dont have a problem never seen one "flutter" before so dont know what that is?????
As for out on the bank I have seen round ones,finned ones,torpedo go all over the place that place has its own unique current it is all over the shop thats why its calle the carmanaah triangle.
If your fishing 100 ft and above no problem with either weights just make sure you have really good swivals on them. and good wire because if thats the price now OMG make sure every thing is in tip top shape!!!!!
Wolf
ratherbefishing
Well-Known Member
$92 for a 15lb ball equates to over $6/lb. Probably 'old' lead too that has been sitting for a year (when it was bought at $1/lb)and the manager read that lead had gone up and decided to jack up the prices. Average price I have seen as of late is about $2.50/lb. Those balls SHOULD be sitting there for a long time.
H
HSM542
Guest
Wolf, next time I am out I will try them again but with a smaller bend. I generally fish 80-160 ft. so as you say the depth may affect them more. Thanks for the info so I guess a little more experiment is in order!
Sushihunter
Active Member
Well Sushi--- you aint gonna believe what Zellers in Courtenay is selling 15lb balls for with the small cast fin--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Are you ready?????----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$92 frigging dollars!!!!
Wow!
That has got to be a mistake. I've heard of the pancake/SS Fin weights being really expensive, but cast lead??? I think someone screwed up - if not, I'm not buying at Zellers any more!
Wow!
That has got to be a mistake. I've heard of the pancake/SS Fin weights being really expensive, but cast lead??? I think someone screwed up - if not, I'm not buying at Zellers any more!
Sushihunter
Active Member
Wolf:
First, you would have to compare a 12# pancake to a 12# ball.
A sphere has the least surface area for a given weight. If you form a fin on it, you increase the surface area and thus the drag on it.
I have heard that the pancakes are good for deep fishing in that you can bend the fins a bit to have them track out away from the boat to keep them from getting tangled.
Personally, I like the balls with the small cast fins to keep them from spinning and kinking the downrigger cable.
Dan The Man
Active Member
perfect!! thanks for all the replys.
M.T. WALLET
Member
I was in nanaimo canadian tire yesterday and same sort of thing 69.99 15lb. ball.it's outrageous.
wolf
Well-Known Member
Sushi still dont agree how by putting a fin on something you are creating more drag????? how come a round one with a the built in fin doesnt do the same if we are using your theory??
The pancakes are thinner in every aspect to "cut"through the water say this for example an oar going through water sideways like a pancake weight goes no problem now turn it the oar as to paddle and you have more resistance same physics apply does it not a fin doesnt create more drag it keeps it true to not spin.
now if you bend the fin to much then your fighting the wire and the current and it will make it drag way behind that why i said earlier just tweak it a bit you dont need a lot when I fish the pancake style I keep them almost straight.
Now if you want to play games with a fellow fisherman go on his boat and bend them inward so if his weight is on the port side bend it in and do the same on other then follow him out and get camera ready not that I have ever done that before (he he) but the balls will tangle under the boat makes good entertainment.
Ok back to what you need to do as for the line kinking I use a big SAMPO ball bearing swival and connect that to a split ring then a metal clip so if I do hang up it pops of at the split ring so you save you cable and I only loose the ball,split ring and the clip. and keep all my line intact.which is what I want if your going to loose a set up I dont want to loose line as well!!!!!
On a scotty downrigger you have the motor spinning one way and the front boom another way so that why the line will kink if you dont have a great swival your fighting 3 different factors,if you have a finned weight it wont spin in the water so something has to give and thats the line but if you put on a really good quality swival you wont have that problem at all.been doing this way for the last 10 years or so if your ever down at the marina will be more than happy to show you the set up I use.
that why rounds with no fin will spin down there coming up, ever wonder why the downrigger clip gets wrapped around the cable???
Good luck Wolf
PS still have some 12 lb for sale finned and SS going up in price soon LOL LOL
The pancakes are thinner in every aspect to "cut"through the water say this for example an oar going through water sideways like a pancake weight goes no problem now turn it the oar as to paddle and you have more resistance same physics apply does it not a fin doesnt create more drag it keeps it true to not spin.
now if you bend the fin to much then your fighting the wire and the current and it will make it drag way behind that why i said earlier just tweak it a bit you dont need a lot when I fish the pancake style I keep them almost straight.
Now if you want to play games with a fellow fisherman go on his boat and bend them inward so if his weight is on the port side bend it in and do the same on other then follow him out and get camera ready not that I have ever done that before (he he) but the balls will tangle under the boat makes good entertainment.
Ok back to what you need to do as for the line kinking I use a big SAMPO ball bearing swival and connect that to a split ring then a metal clip so if I do hang up it pops of at the split ring so you save you cable and I only loose the ball,split ring and the clip. and keep all my line intact.which is what I want if your going to loose a set up I dont want to loose line as well!!!!!
On a scotty downrigger you have the motor spinning one way and the front boom another way so that why the line will kink if you dont have a great swival your fighting 3 different factors,if you have a finned weight it wont spin in the water so something has to give and thats the line but if you put on a really good quality swival you wont have that problem at all.been doing this way for the last 10 years or so if your ever down at the marina will be more than happy to show you the set up I use.
that why rounds with no fin will spin down there coming up, ever wonder why the downrigger clip gets wrapped around the cable???
Good luck Wolf
PS still have some 12 lb for sale finned and SS going up in price soon LOL LOL
mr killer
Active Member
I stopped using pancakes last year after having problems with them in heavy currents in CR, although a pancake does work fine if your going straight into or with the current theres a lot more surface area from the sides so when your turning or if there are currents running across your troll the pancake is more likely to get pushed by the current, if there are any physicists on the board who know anything about aerodynamics maybe they'd be kind enough to enlighten us,
it makes sense to me that all round 360 degrees a cannon ball has less drag than a pancake, your comparing a 4 inch object to a 7 inch object, my snubbers have two swivels so I've never seen my clip get wrapped around my cable, oh ya I don't use ss, braided is so much better with the price of lead these days I`ve had my ss cables break too many times.
it makes sense to me that all round 360 degrees a cannon ball has less drag than a pancake, your comparing a 4 inch object to a 7 inch object, my snubbers have two swivels so I've never seen my clip get wrapped around my cable, oh ya I don't use ss, braided is so much better with the price of lead these days I`ve had my ss cables break too many times.
Sushihunter
Active Member
It is simple math - the more surface area you have, the more drag you get in the water.
A sphere has the least amount of surface area for a given weight.
As for the 12# balls with the cast lead fin, if they are a true 12 pounds, and not 12 pounds + the weight of an added fin, then they should have slightly more drag than a 12# ball.
If however, the downsize a 12# sphere so that when they add a fin, then it will only have slightly more drag than a 12# true sphere.
The bottom line is that more surface area = more drag
