DFO IFM Plan 2021/22 For Review

[scott craven]

We provide DNA for the creel people whenever they are there.
the bigger problem is that with budget cuts, there's not enough
staff to properly monitor the area's.
How do you provide DNA samples without killing a fish ?

 

[SpringVelocity]

We provide DNA for the creel people whenever they are there.
the problem is that with their budget's cut, there's not enough
staff to properly monitor the area's.

Here what you are saying. I am going top do a little digging, and may post up something soon.

My thoughts are what would it take to have well represented JDF Angler Avid data program in a larger role. The guys in Sidney are awesome at this. I know there is one already started in Area 20. But my thoughts are not to focus on guiding community so much, but just the regular anglers that are out there most of the time. Most of the SOG inside anglers aren't guides.

 

[SpringVelocity]

I posted this article up as a reminder of why data is important. Listen to these words spoken by Greg Taylor of Watershed. The MCC does want us on the water, and does sit as a stakeholder in the decision making process.

Port Renfrew looks to reinvent itself in the wake of tough fishing restrictions

Clouds hang low over the hills and a sporadic, warm rain slicks the docks at the Pacific Gateway Marina in Port Renfrew.

www.timescolonist.com

Pacific chinook salmon are in ‘a critical state’​

​

But data can be collected in several ways and Greg Taylor, fisheries adviser with Watershed Watch — a science-based charity that advocates for the conservation of B.C.’s wild salmon — says data used by charter boat operators looks at the catch across 12 months instead of the critical months when endangered stocks are passing through the area.


“The science is provided by DFO based on DNA. [Charter boat operators] actually have a significant impact on the stocks of concern — the spring and summer chinook that are endangered — when those fish are migrating through their fishery,” says Taylor, who spent 30 years in the commercial fishing industry and is a member of the marine conservation caucus, a group of nine conservation organizations mandated to provide advice to DFO.


“They are intercepting a significant proportion of those fish that are passing through in the months of May, June and July,” he says.


An added concern is the mortality rate of fish that are caught and released. While DFO estimates that 15 per cent do not survive, a recently released paper puts the mortality rates much higher, Taylor says, adding he would like to see a complete closure of chinook fishing during the critical months.


But the hard truth is that populations of Pacific salmon are shrinking and it is unlikely that the glory days of sports fishing will return in the foreseeable future.


The Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada has found that 12 out of 13 Fraser River chinook populations are at risk. Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson, announcing the restrictions, said stocks must not knowingly be put on the path to extinction: “The science is clear: Pacific chinook salmon are in a critical state. Without immediate action, this species could be lost forever.”

 

[wolf]

Only last year for CWT heads.

WRONG ive done it for over 15 years way back when ... you really do not read what i post do you.. when i got lied 3 times is when I stopped as i couldnt handle being fu$%ED in the butt AGAIN... you know what you have no clue what or how our fishery is last year in july one day there was 4 boats out how can you get "data" when a area is closed . AGAIN ill ask AGAIN how much data is gonna be enogh lst meeting i went to we were told go ahead put any motion you want forward DFO will not accept ANYTHING for area 19/20 yeah thats promising isnt it.

point is they have hammered us since back in 09 and continue to as they will always low hanging fruit and even if we did collect all the data they wanted .. they will still allow the FN to net the river as the FN made the most noise and oh yeah they listened...

 

[SpringVelocity]

Ok time to move on. I think we agree to disagree with the data collecting. We could go to 144 pages and still not resolving it honestly.

On other news at meeting last night it sounds like DFO will be making decision on proposals early this year on this. Up in 17 I hope we here the decision relatively soon. This fishery up here is relatively early so it would be nice to know where we stand.

 

[the butcher]

WRONG ive done it for over 15 years way back when ... you really do not read what i post do you.. when i got lied 3 times is when I stopped as i couldnt handle being fu$%ED in the butt AGAIN... you know what you have no clue what or how our fishery is last year in july one day there was 4 boats out how can you get "data" when a area is closed . AGAIN ill ask AGAIN how much data is gonna be enogh lst meeting i went to we were told go ahead put any motion you want forward DFO will not accept ANYTHING for area 19/20 yeah thats promising isnt it.

point is they have hammered us since back in 09 and continue to as they will always low hanging fruit and even if we did collect all the data they wanted .. they will still allow the FN to net the river as the FN made the most noise and oh yeah they listened...

collecting data is a means for DFO to give the sport fishing sector hope when there is none...it is meant to make us believe we can be a part of the process when we are not.... If DFOs decisions were based on scientific data and logic, we wouldnt be here today. Same crap they dish out year after year... last few years they made it known they would comsult with all intersts groups and allow for presentations and proposals.... we all know that was all smoke and mirrors...

 

[cohochinook]

I know all of the guys involved have a hard battle its a no win sometimes as they DFO just wont fucken listen to us , And until we go into a meeting and raise holy hell and really put up a fuss we will always get trampled on . Wasn't to long ago town meeting were held for halibut and 100s of people showed up and the clear message was to back off and leave us alone ..well it lasted about 4 years and the minister DID take notice ... Question is WHO is gonna lead the charge until someone with a real interest REALLY challenges the dfo monkeys it will be the staus quo. they will continue to pick on us as we are low hanging fruit and easy picking... Again thanks to Derby,searun, and our local chairs.. they really try...

The sfab reps are working hard to get some small openings and claw back an amount of what has been taken away in a political decision. @tiller has explained the situation very well. What needs to happen now is people on this forum need to reach out to their Member of Parliament and the Fisheries Minister to express their support for the SFAB proposals. We need to make this political as this is where the final decisions are happening. Cal or write your MP and Minister Jordan along with the deputy minister Terry Beech. This goes far beyond DFO staff for these kind of decisions! Also put your support behind the Public Fishery Alliance and the SFI as these are the organizations fighting for your access!

 

[cohochinook]

collecting data is a means for DFO to give the sport fishing sector hope when there is none...it is meant to make us believe we can be a part of the process when we are not.... If DFOs decisions were based on scientific data and logic, we wouldnt be here today. Same crap they dish out year after year... last few years they made it known they would comsult with all intersts groups and allow for presentations and proposals.... we all know that was all smoke and mirrors...

Data is the only way you can manage fish stocks. All user groups should be mandated to contribute data including First Nations. Without data to support openings we're going to get nowhere with DFO. Don't like the standard we're being held to talk to the politicians and specifically any Liberal MP politician. This agenda is coming straight out of the prime minister's office!

 

[searun]

Data is the only way you can manage fish stocks. All user groups should be mandated to contribute data including First Nations. Without data to support openings we're going to get nowhere with DFO. Don't like the standard we're being held to talk to the politicians and specifically any Liberal MP politician. This agenda is coming straight out of the prime minister's office!

Couldn't agree more as a general rule. Appreciate folks getting frustrated hearing how critical having genetic stock composition data is to finding times and locations where stocks of concern are not encountered. To have any shot at fishery opportunities we need to establish areas/times where stocks of concern are not encountered in significant numbers to pose a meaningful risk to recovery of those stocks.

The simple facts are without; 1) good quality data collected over a long period of time; and 2) strong evidence your area fishery doesn't pose a risk; then those areas not meeting these 2 criteria are not likely to be opened up until these stocks recover.

We hear over and over from other sectors...no data = no fishery.

The reality also is....that data will not open fishery opportunity if there is higher risk of encounters of stocks of concern for a particular area or time. Placing all our hopes and wishes in the data basket are not going to improve the situation if geography and the migration routes and timing these particular stocks of concern are using works against us. Location matters. There isn't any data that will overcome the fact that in some locations these stocks are prevalent. Saying this not to **** anyone off, but to caution against getting hopes up pursuing data as a panacea. It's not a silver bullet for some areas.

 

[wavetamer]

i would be more worried about getting people involved, that we can control. Dont treat information liken a commodity, im so sick hearing we have done it like that forever and will continue, and where has it got us , DIVIDED !!!, Whats next split the guides form the REC angler, that is coming dividing us even more !!! im sorry but there is a disconnect from the angler to the SFAB. You can see that from the above posts, no one is saying data is a bad thing Data is a good thing if its used correctly all every one talks about is the broken process, You are not going to get people to join together and fight back for what the new super hot spot Beecher bay , why waste your time and fight for that, that is not an opportunity that is embarrassing. Half the fun of fishing is going hunting for them not driving in circles with everyone fighting with each other , We shouldn't have to defend the process or say over and over the hard working people that volunteer there time are doing there best, that should be an alarm bell. Searun i appreciate your honesty , even with good data we stand a better chance down the road for real opportunities. If we were really managing with data there would be no gill nets in the Fraser. If people really believed in what we are doing there would be hundreds at meetings not 20. i AM SHOCKED AT THE AMOUNT OF EMAILS I HAVE RECEIVED FOR CALLING OUT THE PROCESS and not the good people that are fighting a losing battle and we are losing.

if we dont change the way we deal with DFO we will be further divided and doomed . Who cares what the guiding principles are ,DFO doesn't play by then rules so why do we ??, they make us look bad !! make public the DFO BLUNDERS, ANGLERS WANT A FIGHT. This is where we can team up with the commercial fleet they have already been down this road and got screwed in the process. Look at the Lobster fisherman and the support they received. im not saying burn buildings down but enough is enough, im not willing to give any more, if it means we lose our fishery, SO BE IT we have already LOST IT. Aleast we go down swinging

 

[Whole in the Water]

I agree with Derby that collecting and providing data is a good thing in the long run and we should do it. Ongoing data collection and analysis is the cornerstone of any good resource management. I also agree with Derby that it may not benefit us in the long run if the data shows stocks of concern in our area, as we will get shut down. So it is obvious why some fishers are resistant to provide data. So what do we do? Are we just left with being damned if we do and damned if we don't?

We need to think about the problem in a different way. Simply we need to increase the numbers of of the chinook stocks at risk by working to build a hatchery on the upper Fraser. This could greatly increase numbers of stocks of concern first and foremost, while providing fish for FN's on the upper Fraser and reduce the need for heavy restrictions for the public fishery sector.

Are hatcheries without their issues - no. Will it be a lot of work to build such a hatchery - yes - But it CAN be done!

Why? Because what is the alternative? Sit around and wait for DFO's hopeless wild Salmon policy (i.e. do nothing) to somehow start working? Meanwhile DFO's allows un-regulated overfishing in the Fraser, continued habitat loss, pollution and ongoing climate change just wipe out these runs! We can't let this happen!!! A hatchery on the upper Fraser can increase run numbers until some of these other issues can be better dealt with. The sooner we got going on this logical solution the better. My 2 bits.

 

[SpringVelocity]

I agree with Derby that collecting and providing data is a good thing in the long run and we should do it. Ongoing data collection and analysis is the cornerstone of any good resource management. I also agree with Derby that it may not benefit us in the long run if the data shows stocks of concern in our area, as we will get shut down. So it is obvious why some fishers are resistant to provide data. So what do we do? Are we just left with being damned if we do and damned if we don't?

We need to think about the problem in a different way. Simply we need to increase the numbers of of the chinook stocks at risk by working to build a hatchery on the upper Fraser. This could greatly increase numbers of stocks of concern first and foremost, while providing fish for FN's on the upper Fraser and reduce the need for heavy restrictions for the public fishery sector.

Are hatcheries without their issues - no. Will it be a lot of work to build such a hatchery - yes - But it CAN be done!

Why? Because what is the alternative? Sit around and wait for DFO's hopeless wild Salmon policy (i.e. do nothing) to somehow start working? Meanwhile DFO's allows un-regulated overfishing in the Fraser, continued habitat loss, pollution and ongoing climate change just wipe out these runs! We can't let this happen!!! A hatchery on the upper Fraser can increase run numbers until some of these other issues can be better dealt with. The sooner we got going on this logical solution the better. My 2 bits.

I think it is was what you said " Damned if we all don't and damned if we do". We have to do ongoing data collection, and if shows stocks of concern so be it. It is what it is. What I think though it could improve the actually locations/run timing of where fish are etc.

Lets be claer many of us that fish that area know there is small number of these fish, but they are still present. You can't hide that fact. One thing we can look at when they are there, and which locations there are most prevalent in.

The other obvious thing I think you might not be getting is if we are all doing a lot more of this we may be able to get a better sense of your net pen fish arrivals etc. in Sooke River. That is something we are missing in discussion here. Timing is going to be everything in Area 20 if want more opportunities.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Just saw this.

 

[Whole in the Water]

SV did you read what I said above?

I agree with Derby that collecting and providing data is a good thing in the long run and we should do it. Ongoing data collection and analysis is the cornerstone of any good resource management.

Yes I agree that data collection in Area 20 will help show the positive impact of the Sooke Basin Chinook Project - that is why I support data collection.

What do you think about the idea of a chinook hatchery on the upper Fraser?

 

[SpringVelocity]

Did you read what I said above?

Yes I agree that data collection in Area 20 will help show the positive impact of the Sooke Basin Chinook Project - that is why I support data collection.

What do you think about the idea of a chinook hatchery on the upper Fraser?

Yes it's a great thing for an upper Fraser hatchery program.

 

[wavetamer]

i think data is a great thing and whole in the water you get it , what im questioning is the way were being forced to collect data in respect to proper release of salmon. is it now hold line, pluck DNA and twist hook with gaff and hopefully watch swim away, do you think every one practices the quick release at the side of the boat, That will really get certain groups attacking from greater stress to the fish we are creating and use there crazy C/R mortality rate against us. . How do we really no if hard work of the net pen people is actually working when there is no one out there. Does it make sense to open a bay below the SOOKE basin WHERE THE FISH WERE REARED, only to have them cleaned up by nets once entered, did we get data ??. Seems like a huge slap in the face to the volunteers of Sooke net pen

 

[SpringVelocity]

WRONG ive done it for over 15 years way back when ... you really do not read what i post do you.. when i got lied 3 times is when I stopped as i couldnt handle being fu$%ED in the butt AGAIN... you know what you have no clue what or how our fishery is last year in july one day there was 4 boats out how can you get "data" when a area is closed . AGAIN ill ask AGAIN how much data is gonna be enogh lst meeting i went to we were told go ahead put any motion you want forward DFO will not accept ANYTHING for area 19/20 yeah thats promising isnt it.

point is they have hammered us since back in 09 and continue to as they will always low hanging fruit and even if we did collect all the data they wanted .. they will still allow the FN to net the river as the FN made the most noise and oh yeah they listened...

Thanks for reaching out by phone yesterday Roy. We do not always agree in forum land, but respected where you were coming from. I emailed you this morning check your messages.

 

[Derby]

collecting data is a means for DFO to give the sport fishing sector hope when there is none...it is meant to make us believe we can be a part of the process when we are not.... If DFOs decisions were based on scientific data and logic, we wouldnt be here today. Same crap they dish out year after year... last few years they made it known they would comsult with all intersts groups and allow for presentations and proposals.... we all know that was all smoke and mirrors...

Really??? so how can you make decision on scientific data without having collected ..I guess perhaps we should just sit on butt & do nothing.. Is that what you are suggesting? Policts is another matter which is unforunitly has been brought in to Management of our fisherys that bogs things down.. So if you had it your way we should just sit back and do zero?? Correct

 

[the butcher]

Really??? so how can you make decision on scientific data without having collected ..I guess perhaps we should just sit on butt & do nothing.. Is that what you are suggesting? Policts is another matter which is unforunitly has been brought in to Management of our fisherys that bogs things down.. So if you had it your way we should just sit back and do zero?? Correct

I am a realist.. not a dreamer waiting and hoping for a miracle to happen... So what do you suggest? We continue to follow the instructions from DFO to collect more data that will NOT be used properly? If DFO was data driven we would not be in this position.. The data does not show that a complete shutdown of the chinook fishery until September(for the vancouver region) is necessary. So should we continue to be obedient dogs listening and waiting for scraps from our master(DFO) to be thrown at us? The answers are obviously not clear, easy as this is contentious issue involving a lot of different groups and factors. What needs to happen is for the rest of the 99.5% of the sport fishing members from this province to get out and show disobedience, demonstrate outside DFO and government official offices, bang drums, make noise... When we only get a handful of people out for last year's demonstration/protests it shows that the BS policies DFO announces year after year only **** off a handful of people. Until the rest of our group give a damn and does something about it, NO amount of letters will make a difference. The letter writing initiatives have never worked and will never work. We need more pissed off anglers who will draw a line in the sand and will be willing to do something about it. Until that happens we have been screwed and will continue to be screwed. From what I recall, there was 300,000 saltwater fishing licenses issued last year in BC... yet only a handful are pissed off enough and willing to take a day off from work to show up for a rally last year.

 

[Derby]

Believe or not...its not DFO started the program.... a avid angler program started by the angler of which needs are approval before any infomation can be released.. (it is a DFO funded program). That being said ..If we were to follow your thought progress I guess I will just give up sit on a forum board & do nothing but whine about how unfair it is and and how DFO doesnt always come out in favour of what we want... HMMM sit on my butt and cry or do something that could and I say could help prove a case for us to get area's open either thru DNA or the MSF heads returned.. do as you please.. I for one dont want to sell my boat anytime soon and its a very easy program to do and takes little of my time.. Giving ing back to a something I have love..