CTAG Demystified!!!!

Anyone who is going to go through the accreditation process must have at least 750 hours of guiding experience. So there are not any "newbies" who would have a TAG certification.

Also, a successful applicant will have to have all the legal "personal" requirements in place. By this I am referring to the SVOP, Med, ROC and current marine first aid. When you are in the program the SFI will send you a reminder that your first aid ticket is about to expire.

This is about the guide, and is not a "course". It is an assessment process plain and simple.

750 hours is not a lot of time....and it's easy to get around that.....a couple of people sign a letter or two, you can self declare, etc etc etc.

You can get a CTAG from a Cracker Jack BOX!!!!

A lot of operations aren't even open for 100 days on this coast.

The assessment is a joke. A 1-3 hour assessment. I believe my assessment was less than 2 hours with the written. whoop de do...

A CTAG doesn't mean fiddly fiddle...the Transport Canada tickets can make a difference though.

I'm with Wolf and Tofinofish on this one.

If this is perceived as so great...well...according to SFI there are 2500 or so "guides" on this coast who part, full, and casual guide. I believe at last I heard well less than 600 signed up to challenge even when it was free... And now even fewer are signing up.
 
I jumped throu all the TC hoops early on before most bothered. To this day there is still no effective program in place to keep the illegal operators off the water and sadly CTAG won't accomplish that either. I think it will always come down to some amount of self policing but there are common sense things that would help if implemented. First the government should force the Insurance people to make it mandatory to see all your paperwork before selling you charter liability insurance. All operators should be required to display either a TC certified or CTAG certified logo which you can only get with the proper certification. If you have neither in any advertising you are exposed to enforcement and competition scrutiny. What this achieves is a level playing field related to the costs and time involved in getting certified.
 
SO you mention safety im just curious as to how you will cover any more in the 3 hours course(ctag) than the 4 days of SVOP and the WHOLE day of the MED 3 and the week of the A1.???????

at 495 bucks for 3 hours i dont even make that kinda money fishing........

Again its not a course but an assessment process. You send them a copy of SVOP med etc, documentation of your 750+hours, and you answer some questions and describe your experience. An example might be: Mr Wolf, please describe some of the safety tools or practices you use or employ when you are engaged in guiding anglers?
Another example might be: Mr Wolf, what can you tell me about the Blue Decal Program?
The assessor is trying to ascertain if the candidate has knowledge and understanding of the various aspects of being a Tidal Angling Guide. A guide with experience should have no problems.
 
Any chance this was set up by resort owners so they would have control over the guiding industry. It will be like commercial licenses.Resort owners will own the right to guide in a given area.
 
the fact is, if you have your svop, med a3, roc, and a marine 1st aid ticket you have all the qualification you need to guide, and that's according to dot. when we were told after years of guiding that when the svop and med a3 came along that this would be it, no more qualifications needed, now we have this bruhaha with the ctag. from what I understood from the start of it was that it would be a set of courses to get new people properly trained in the industry, the experienced could challenge it with proof of qualifications. dot recognizes svop and med a3, not ctag. it goes on and on, some lodges ask for ctag but it is not law, not sure if it ever will be, seems to me like it's going to blow up in smoke and maybe it should.
 
Again, a CTAG guide will have at least 750 hours of guiding experience, and all the required tickets (SVOP, MED, ROC and current Marine first aid). A kid guiding may have the Transport Canada required tickets, but unless they have the 750 hours of experience they would not be eligible for a Tag certification.

To put it simply the CTAG for most experienced Guides is just a way of recognizing officially what they already know and already do. I don't have a problem with that if its serving the purpose of recognizing that quality service in some official way and allows a business or guide to market that to their advantage.

The only problem I can see with it is just because a guide has CTAG, it doesn't mean they are any more experienced or 'better' than ones that don't have it - that's where I think many may have issues with it. Experience and years of gained knowledge trumps all and long before we had CTAG to pat ourselves on the back.
 
Incredible to read through these comments and very difficult to understand where people are coming from; on the one hand “it’s a travesty and a joke” and in just about the same breath there isn’t enough enforcement and the TC courses are a requirement only and not useful. There is clearly a lot of frustration and mistrust but the shotgun blasts are misdirected at CTAG and are aimed in the wrong direction. Folks, you are too close to this. Keep in mind, the public has no idea what is required and is looking at limited information presented to them. Insurers aren’t required to ask you if you or your vessel are legal, the onus is on you. That isn’t going to change any time soon – sure, lots of you are experienced and have a loyal clientele but wouldn’t you be interested to attract new customers or to, for whatever reason, take advantage of all of your efforts and experience and to make sure TC doesn’t change their mind about regulations? How do you propose to do that if the reputation that is drifting around is that BC’s saltwater guides are an unmonitored, unchecked bunch and that it’s the Wild Wild West? Sure, there are requirements of guides these days but as you know, there are no guarantees, no checks and little to no consequences for those who don’t play by the rules. Wouldn’t it be useful and helpful to have a designation that externally confirms that you are the best and a professional? This isn’t to say that you get CTAG and you are better than before just that it’s a descriptor that you are entitled to use. No, it’s not mandatory but yes, TC and the RCMP are aware of it and the fact that it isn’t mandatory is a strong argument that it’s the people who are interested in distinguishing themselves from the rest and have all legal requirements in place that are participating. The CTAG challenge is also attracting those who have realised that they have had to jump through a lot of hoops and finally here is one (last one hopefully) that could potentially stop further regulations, provides a promotional opportunity and actually pays. It is hard to understand the resistance to something that actually pays you for your efforts and could significantly help perception and promotion and at the very least won’t hurt you or your business (remember this isn’t a government thing, it’s an industry thing). The public can relate and understand a certification; a tool that you can use to promote the quality of service that the industry provides is far better than trying to promote all on your own and in isolation. Some have been critical of the assessment or of the quality of TAG individuals that they have encountered – the process and individuals are required to meet a minimum requirement. This is more than can be said for the industry up to now. An overarching reputation for a top class of guides will provide value for individual businesses, insulate the sector from additional regulation and would potentially provide a voice for the guiding community.

The fact remains this is an industry designed program by many of your peers and in response to so many of the things you are complaining about here and could face if things remain status quo; more changes to TC regulations and the imposition of business licences with no other purpose but to extract more tax from you and your business as a couple of examples. All efforts were made over the 4 years in which it was developed to consult with the guiding community. Knowing this crowd now some will likely say “well, I wasn’t talked to”, of course it isn’t possible to talk to everyone but a lot of care was taken to get a cross section of folks to contribute.

Look at El Capitan’s post – he’s basically described a program and the certification that is a genuine attempt to make things better and actually provides a real benefit – net $500.00 and real insurance discounts. If that was all it did you’d think it would be enough (finally, something that pays us!) and hard to argue against but looking through all of the posts so much energy is used to discredit or find fault meanwhile suggesting no work forwards or ways to improve things.

The TAG Challenge is meant to verify your qualifications so as to make the certification credible. 750 hours of experience was intended to recognize a person who had spent a couple of seasons as an independent charter operator or a guide at a lodge operation working for the better part of a season. Sure, you can complain about that but there was a lot of discussion about where to do draw the line and what would allow someone to gain enough experience to provide someone with a good and safe experience. The idea isn’t to identify a Master Guide but to identify someone (a person not the vessel) who is competent and legal. It is not a “course” and is intended to take a reasonable amount of care to verify the information provided by the challenger.

Again, it seems lost that this the certification isn’t working on a conspiracy theory or trying to discredit or disempower the guiding community. Exactly the opposite, CTAG is an attempt to develop a tool that allows tidal BC’s professional guides to say they are part of a well described community that operates to the best standards in North America. And, at the same time, a challenge of the certification will get you insurance discounts and cash dollars....
 
WELL im not going to sit here and write you everything that I do its MY BUSINESS and ill run it the way I feel customers deserve and what they want.... I dont need an "assessor" to tell me how to run it...been doing this for over 25 years 15 years of that guiding for a lodge in knight inlet when we had new guests every 4 days!!!!!!! so many many a client in a resort for months on end think ive learned alot in those years some good some bad.

what can YOU teach me in 3 hours that ive have already experienced in over 25 years??? probably not much im sure......

im sure this would be a GREAT program if it was for someone starting out and looking to get into this field.

Thanks for enlightening us all on everything ...

Wolf
 
sums it up

/thread

Sums what up? The CTAG program isn't intended to teach and is not a course, it is a formal validation. It doesn't claim to make you a better guide but just to describe you in a clear manner. Certification will only provide advantage and benefits for you and your business.

It is not the enemy and not trying to tell you what to do or how to do it.
 
Well, speaking of illegal guiding....I'm not sure who these folks are or what their credentials are...they do not appear to have a website..or any google presence...which makes me go hmmmmm.....kind of concerning that they leave out their boat name and credentials.....

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/nvn/for/4326932217.html

http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/rvs/4316349085.html

http://nanaimo.en.craigslist.ca/spo/4275412950.html

Busting these guys, if they are illegal, is pretty easy...just book them, show up for the charter, demand their credentials, if they don't have it, slam 'em with a big fat fine and a cease and desist order...

They're ratting themselves out to authorities by posting on here...
 
Sounds like everyone needs to take a deep breath. After reading the thread, it seems that a few things are evident:

1) The program is an attempt to develop some minimum standards for guiding and develop a designation that will hopefully help distinguish experienced and qualified operators from some less than reputable or competent operators.
2) If you are an experienced guide on the coast, you probably don't need the designation. You already have a loyal, happy, client base and as pointed out by several of you, this designation does nothing for you. That being said, if the actual net cost is basically zero, I don't see the harm in getting the designation. Obviously it will be easy for you to qualify and as stated above, ultimately it should help distinguish some of the completely unqualified operators from those who have at least gone through this process.
3) Getting your qualification doesn't mean that you are a great guide. That comes with experience, good judgement, and continuous training/learning. Again, the designation is about setting a basic minimum standard. Your individual reputation and referrals will ultimately determine that.
4) It seems that if the long term options are regulating yourselves from within versus having some ham handed bureaucrat do it in the future (DFO anyone?), the entire guiding industry should get on board and if they don't like aspects of the program, look at changing it from within rather than just throwing hand grenades at he effort.

My 2 cents from someone who is not a guide.
 
As a former guide (probably worked with you in knight inlet wolf) and current sportie.... All I have to say is, who really cares? I mean honestly this whole post is ..........
Sorry if I'm offending peeps but really, ctag is what it is and guides will continue to do what they do..... Guide!

Literally anyone can get a ctag cert..... I am a red seal trades person and anyone can most definitely not get my trades cert in an afternoon. Good guides have a lifetime of fishing experience, you can't replicate that period.
 
Well I hear what some are saying when they feel 25 years experience can't be replaced by an assessment process. CTAG isn't in place to replace that level of experience and all that it brings to the industry. It is really intended to set out professional standards to help both the consumer and guide industry achieve a baseline level of safe customer experience. This is an industry designed program, and is the right step forward IMO as opposed to just sitting back and doing nothing waiting for the day when an accident takes place forcing government to impose their own views of what a safe customer experience and standards to ensure that happens should look like.

Do we seriously want that? I know I sure don't! I would rather have input into developing a program that fairly represents what guides themselves believe based on their many years of experience is the right way to go.

As for CTAG ensuring each and every guide that successfully completes the assessment is 100 percent fully competent all the time, every trip...well I think we all know from experience there are guides and then there's guides. Not all are equal, nor would any certification program ever be able to accomplish that. No different than licensing car drivers....I think we all know a few that should never be allowed near a road.

So better that we support and participate in making an industry designed program successful, than wait around for some govy guy in Ottawa to dream up what they think works best. And, as others have said this is basically cost neutral so where is the harm in getting the CTAG designation?
 
Seems unnecessary to me. Not once have I had someone call and say, do you have CTAG. One time had someone call and asked about tickets, but not ctag. It wouldn't make a difference to bookings or more business to have CTAG in my opinion. Do enough of that stuff with TC.
 
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