CTAG Demystified!!!!

El Capitan

Member
There are a couple of details about the CTAG program that should probably be clarified in light of the comments in this forum. There have been claims and comments made that are patently false. The first is that the program is a cash grab – how could this be? The program was designed and built over 4 years based on input from a broad cross section of stakeholders (guides, independent and lodge guides, lodge owners, independent anglers, the SFI, TC and DFO). The program has been formalized and supported by the Industry Training Authority (the agency responsible for trades training apprenticeships in BC – Red Seal Chefs as example). In fact, the TAG designation recognizes the occupation as a trade and provides reimbursement for a portion of all of the training that a guide has been required to acquire in the course of becoming legal to operate commercially. So, the certification process costs 495.00 and everyone who gets certification will receive 1000.00 in refundable tax credits. That means if you are one of the few who don’t pay taxes you would receive a check in the mail for 1000.00 at tax time. Others will simply pay 1000.00 less in taxes the year you get certified. Difficult to see the cash grab aspect of that. Let’s look at the SFI – is the cash grab found at the non-profit organization which seeks to represent the interests of all of BC’s tidal anglers? If you are a charter guide wishing to be a member of the SFI (membership and support is an objective for the SFI – they are a non-profit but have been participating in costly legal action alongside the BCWF and in a variety of activities which are intended to help promote sustainable activities for the sector generally) the annual dues are 250.00. However, if you acquire your TAG you become eligible to be a CTAG member of the SFI at a rate of only 50.00 annually. And, your first year is paid for when you take your assessment. For those modest dues you are kept appraised of relevant news, are notified of when your MBFA is set to expire and are provided identification that is useful to distinguish a legal guide from the weekend warrior and help protect the honest and upstanding of the community from those who may be less scrupulous or have an accident. It is far better to have our sector and industry identify itself as being progressive and interested in safety and legality than to sit back and wait until the government (either one) devises a cash grab to licence guides. It’s happened in freshwater and there are all sorts of precedence that shows that if you go unregulated long enough some desk in Victoria will figure a way to extract a business tax or some sort of licence fee (and count on getting absolutely nothing useful from that).

The benefits of CTAG are well beyond the immediate economic benefits; the training credit of 1000.00 and the discounts available from insurers. As an industry led program, the Province is forced to acknowledge that the industry is organized enough to have done this for themselves and those in Tourism for the Province see the designation as a very useful and simple way to promote the industry. It’s a very tidy way to promote the saltwater guide community; encourage the public to look for the CTAG decal and describe that BC’s certified guides are operating to standards set by the industry and to a level that is unrivalled in North America. Again, it helps to allow the professional guides who are doing things according to the law to separate themselves from the rogues or those who will one way or the other negatively impact the sector.

It is just plain wrong to say that this is a cash grab. And, while there is a lot of sympathy for the ever moving goal posts that are TC and DFO regulations, CTAG is not a part of that. In fact, CTAG is a reaction to the changes, with an interest in providing stability and a way to acknowledge the profession and trade. Keep in mind that this is not a course but a confirmation of TC tickets and your experience and will take between 3 and 4 hours of your time to complete. You’re being paid 125.00/hr. and the opportunity to save 30% a year on your vessel liability insurance would seem reason alone to acquire this. Add professional trade designation, promotional opportunities for your business and the sector generally and insulating the legal and reputable guides from all others make it something to understand a little better rather than just lob turds over the fence at something you don’t fully understand.
 
help protect the honest and upstanding of the community from those who may be less scrupulous or have an accident. It is far better to have our sector and industry identify itself as being progressive and interested in safety and legality

Again, it helps to allow the professional guides who are doing things according to the law to separate themselves from the rogues or those who will one way or the other negatively impact the sector.

just lob turds over the fence at something you don’t fully understand.

Wow. I just want to point out that I frequent many restaurants where the operator nor the chef are Red Seal and prepare excellent meals worthy of kings also now of some so called Red Seal Bakers who may be certified but have dubious skills. I'm sure there are many honest and upstanding guides operating safely and legally who do not carry the Ctag designation as well as others who may have the Ctag designation but fall short in terms of providing the customer with an outstanding experience they were expecting and paid for. Just not so sure a Red Seal differentiates those that are honest and upstanding of the community from those less scrupulous.
 
Wow. I just want to point out that I frequent many restaurants where the operator nor the chef are Red Seal and prepare excellent meals worthy of kings also now of some so called Red Seal Bakers who may be certified but have dubious skills. I'm sure there are many honest and upstanding guides operating safely and legally who do not carry the Ctag designation as well as others who may have the Ctag designation but fall short in terms of providing the customer with an outstanding experience they were expecting and paid for. Just not so sure a Red Seal differentiates those that are honest and upstanding of the community from those less scrupulous.

I think a better comparison would be the difference between restaurants with cooks or chef that do have certified food safe training and those that dont. Guiding without the correct certification is not legal to the best of my knowledge and there for seems dishonest and lacking professionalism from my view.

Thanks for the post Captain. The lack of enforcement is pathetic. That would be my only complaint. But it is a fact that anyone can take this course and be certified regardless of experience. Seems like a flaw in the set up to me. Everyones has to start some where I guess but you think there would be some portion of boatmanship where skills and knowledge of small craft operation had to be demonstrated to be certified. Just more red tape I guess.
 
I would rather go out with an experienced guide than a "CTAG certified" newbie ;)
 
I would rather go out with an experienced guide than a "CTAG certified" newbie ;)

BINGO!!!! I wholeheartedly agree.

The CTAG program and it's representations are a travesty. I interviewed 3 CTAGs in the last 3 years--none of them got hired. I Would consider none of them qualified to represent the business I was hiring for.

The CTAG program reeks of Public Relations Spin.

Any client who thinks they are automatically making the best choice because they are "with a CTAG" are mistaken.
 
How many illegal operations are you aware of and familiar with on this coast Birdsnest?



I think a better comparison would be the difference between restaurants with cooks or chef that do have certified food safe training and those that dont. Guiding without the correct certification is not legal to the best of my knowledge and there for seems dishonest and lacking professionalism from my view.

Thanks for the post Captain. The lack of enforcement is pathetic. That would be my only complaint. But it is a fact that anyone can take this course and be certified regardless of experience. Seems like a flaw in the set up to me. Everyones has to start some where I guess but you think there would be some portion of boatmanship where skills and knowledge of small craft operation had to be demonstrated to be certified. Just more red tape I guess.
 
Fishin...there are more independent owner operators not properly certified than those that are. That is a fact.
 
The SFI CTAG may be a great program for those who believe it is. I apologize if El Capt took offense to my calling it a “cash grab.” Maybe it’s not. But I’m not about to support any more bureaucracy when I see so many charter operators who don’t comply with current Transport Canada rules and regulations for themselves and their vessels. Some SFI CTAG operators do not operate vessels with TC certification.

A major red flag for me is that the program does not require mandatory participation in the Transport Canada Small Vessel Compliance Program and require all members to post the blue sticker on the vessel they are fishing on. This program is voluntary – however meeting the requirements is.

My time and money is better spent in the streams and hatcheries rejuvenating fish stocks so there are enough fish for everyone.
 
Ok. If it is not mandatory to participate then I know of no illegal operations.

I would rather go out with an experienced guide than a "CTAG certified" newbie ;)


Who would you rather make a claim against in court or the event of an accident? They guy with the tickets and the proper insurance or the "experienced guide". Ya, there is a problem with how this is set up.

 
Fishin...there are more independent owner operators not properly certified than those that are. That is a fact.

Interesting. Where are most of these located? What are their names?

Are they doing a large volume which harms your livelihood? Are they out marketing and out selling the majority in their market? How many people have died with these individuals? How many lives have been saved because they went with a CTAG?

This issue isn't to do with CTAG, it has to do with Transport Canada.

I have a hard time believing that Transport Canada and all the enforcement agencies turn a blind eye to these folks if they are in such high numbers in large concentrations.

The bulk of Guided fishing on this coast is done in volume, through larger reputable operations.

The other option is to sell a bareboat charter...which is legal.
 
Ok. If it is not mandatory to participate then I know of no illegal operations.



Who would you rather make a claim against in court or the event of an accident? They guy with the tickets and the proper insurance or the "experienced guide". Ya, there is a problem with how this is set up.[/COLOR][/INDENT]

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My point was just because some kid who has no real sea experience and has a CTAG the customers aren't safer than with a guide with lts of experience.
 
One other point, just because you are a CTAG, it doesn't mean you are on a safe or Transport Canada approved vessel...
 
This is why I said there is a problem with the system. I agree. But Its still a fair question.
 
It is far better to have our sector and industry identify itself as being progressive and interested in safety and legality

SO you mention safety im just curious as to how you will cover any more in the 3 hours course(ctag) than the 4 days of SVOP and the WHOLE day of the MED 3 and the week of the A1.???????

at 495 bucks for 3 hours i dont even make that kinda money fishing........
 
Sorry, I have to admit that until now the ctga thing I missed. I did not realize that it was the "certified tidal angling guide". I was only talking about the TC tickets for guiding. svop dada dada dada. I apologize.
 
I would rather go out with an experienced guide than a "CTAG certified" newbie ;)
Anyone who is going to go through the accreditation process must have at least 750 hours of guiding experience. So there are not any "newbies" who would have a TAG certification.

Also, a successful applicant will have to have all the legal "personal" requirements in place. By this I am referring to the SVOP, Med, ROC and current marine first aid. When you are in the program the SFI will send you a reminder that your first aid ticket is about to expire.

This is about the guide, and is not a "course". It is an assessment process plain and simple.
 
One other point, just because you are a CTAG, it doesn't mean you are on a safe or Transport Canada approved vessel...

You are correct, that is Transport Canada's realm and we can probably agree that there has been a lack of enforcement. The CTAG program is about the guide, but during the assessment process, questions are asked about the blue decal program to ensure a general understanding of what a legal passenger vessel is. An accredited guide will understand the importance of operating a vessel that meets the standards of the blue decal program, but again that is TC's responsibility to enforce. I bet most experienced guides on the coast have waded through Transport Canada's hoops and are familiar with how the blue sticker works. The assessor asks you a few questions about the subject, you tell them what you know to demonstrate your level of understanding, than you move on to the next section.
 
My point was just because some kid who has no real sea experience and has a CTAG the customers aren't safer than with a guide with lts of experience.

Again, a CTAG guide will have at least 750 hours of guiding experience, and all the required tickets (SVOP, MED, ROC and current Marine first aid). A kid guiding may have the Transport Canada required tickets, but unless they have the 750 hours of experience they would not be eligible for a Tag certification.
 
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