SalishSlayer
Member
THIS^^^^^^^ is the number one problem along with dragging 12 months a year in the strait of Georgia,its insane this day and age!!!!
Chek 6 Poll On SRKW - take a moment and complete it please
- Thread starter searun
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THIS^^^^^^^ is the number one problem along with dragging 12 months a year in the strait of Georgia,its insane this day and age!!!!
Aces
Well-Known Member
The Transient pods that visit our area regularly are really well fed. They head right for the fish farms and thin those pinnipeds out.
The only positive for those farms
finaddict
Well-Known Member
On one of the other threads, there were a couple of links to an old show called "Westward" from the 80's. It was an interview with a couple of DFO managers - the manager of herring fishery in SoG and the senior biologist from PBS. It was quite revealing (to me anyways) that the fishery for that year (1984) was curtailed to 4500 tons to make sure they remained very conservative in this "new" fishery. They also mentioned that they had previously had fisheries of as high as 14,000 tons and had noticed that the herring spawn in the following year had taken a serious nose dive. In the past 10 years the herring fishery has never been below 15,000 tons and has been as high as 30,000 tons, but strangely enough they are not able to catch the quota at that high number. This year it is 23,000 tons.
Remove the source of zooplankton conversion to flesh and the entire food chain dissolves. You want to save the SRKW? eliminate the herring roe fishery in the GoS. Nope, lets shut down all those pesky sporties instead. truly f*ckin ridiculous. It sickens me that grade 8 biology is ignored by DFO and they do not have the balls to stand up to Jimmy and his fleets or the poachers (read bands) in the Lower Fraser..
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Rain City
Crew Member
To play devils advocate here (this is not a productive comment just an interesting thought) but what if the SRKW going extinct IS evolution taking its course. What if the transient whales are making their move into the resident's territory with a new and better hunting method. What if the over-population of seals is all part of that? In 50 years maybe one of these pods would become our new resident whales and the god damn whale watchers can go chase them around just the same. And us assholes get to keep fishing. BALANCE.
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california
Well-Known Member
Technically the SRKW is evolution at work. A new predator (European origin Humans) has entered the ecosystem, altered the habitat in several ways and over harvested the resource so salmon populations can not be sustained. I guess the difference is as sentient beings, the only ones who utilize technology, are able to realize we are the cause and we have the choice and ability to try and mitigate the damage we have done and not allow the extinction. Certainly many species have been allowed to become extinct due to human activity, so its an argument these whales should be allowed to vanish as well. This wont save the salmon, the whales or seals aren't the cause of the decline, we are.
Transient whales are not competing with residents. Their increase in numbers starting from the 70's has coincided with pinniped populations going back to historical norms. Transients were previously negatively impacted by human killing of their main prey, pinnipeds, so are proof that whale populations can be restored by human actions that restore the ecosystem. Transients aren't going to just instantly replace residents, they have evolved seperately. It would take a long time for some transients to evolve back to fish eating residents if salmon populations were to return. By then Trump or some future moronic Trump like individual will probably have annihilated most life on earth with nuclear weapons, so maybe we just shouldn't worry about any of it!
Gramps
Active Member
Until we can put the politically correct bs away and talk about the overpopulation of seals and how to resolve it nothing will happen. The Fraser mouth has the highest population of seals on the entire west coast. 30 years ago there was a bounty on seals. All we need to do is pay attention to the Columbia river fisherie and the steps taken in the past 10 years to improve it. Seals and those suckers are a start and if we could ever openly discuss the FN fishery... not sure if we will see that though.
Gramps
Active Member
california
Well-Known Member
What steps are that on the Columbia? The cull of seals and sea lions? Do you know how many have been removed? Since 2008 less than 200. They only identify and remove problem animals that have learned to take out the returning salmon at the fish ladder (an artificial human barrier). The number is insignificant on the total population. BC could emulate that strategy and remove specific problem animals. Columbia returns last year were way below forecasts, and this year the forecasts are even lower. Since the 70s hatcheries have increased production of chinook smolts by about 200 million per year on the coast, seals are estimated to be eating 27 million smolts. So we have increased net production by 170 million smolts and still the returns decline. Clearly there are other factors. The politically correct BS you speak of I at least make an effort to attach some facts to. Seals are one part of many issues facing the salmon and Whale populations.
Gramps
Active Member
Gramps
Active Member
Facts? So removing 200 seals did nothing. Those seals would have stopped producing baby seals. Have to think the number of seals would be greater today and how many have we removed from the Fraser? It's not just the seals but the payment for killing those suckers as well as other steps takin. Was Trump in power when these steps where taken? I'm pretty sure there where done because of recommendations made by scientists and people that know first hand.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Seals and fish farms the quick fix for the ever hopefully fishermen.
Climate change and the supply and demand picture.
The two topics no fishermen wants to touch
Climate change and the supply and demand picture.
The two topics no fishermen wants to touch
california
Well-Known Member
They weren't seals, they were sea lions, Its only males that migrate from the pupping areas in Southern CA and Mexico up north , so they likely wouldn't have had babies unless something has changed (males don't have pups) and Sea lions are not monogamous so the females down south will be impregnated by other males. Again maybe actually read about something before commenting on it with no idea of the facts. It had an effect in that these animals were targeting chinook stacked up in a ladder, not population control. There are 300,000 California sea lions on the west coast. Removing 20 per year won't affect the population. Maybe read my post, it didn't say anything about Trump being at fault. Why so touchy about Trump?
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
California
should seals be managed based on salmon returns or should they be managed independently.
SRKW management has now filtered into chinook management and effecting how salmon are being managed.
Yes seals now are at historic level, but salmon and herring stocks are far from historic levels and do to climate change there is more warm water predators and less nutrients.
then Do u think in order to support this level of seals and help SRKW that all fishing must be stoped?????
Because you have made clear on the supply side you do not support hatchery’s.
Are you willing to come out of the forum and say what many of your posts imply that all human salmon harvesting must end?
should seals be managed based on salmon returns or should they be managed independently.
SRKW management has now filtered into chinook management and effecting how salmon are being managed.
Yes seals now are at historic level, but salmon and herring stocks are far from historic levels and do to climate change there is more warm water predators and less nutrients.
then Do u think in order to support this level of seals and help SRKW that all fishing must be stoped?????
Because you have made clear on the supply side you do not support hatchery’s.
Are you willing to come out of the forum and say what many of your posts imply that all human salmon harvesting must end?
Gramps
Active Member
You put trump in your post, and had nothing to do with the topic. Same thing the lib tards do on this side of the boarder when your "facts" dont fit.
So in your words, male seals aren't required to make pups. Right, only females should be removed, makes sense.
Well up to this point only the Americans have taken action to remove the Virus laden, disease infested open net cage Fish Farms out of Puget Sound and if Canada can do its part so that Wild Salmon smolts can migrate through the Salish Sea without getting infested with Sea Lice and disease from these Fish Farms that have been festering here since the 80's things can actually start to turn around. Come on Canada do your part.
Fish Farms are killing the Wild Salmon Smolts migrating by these pens. Not really rocket science to understand that eventually and we are almost there no more smolts will migrate by these Fish Farms as they will all have sucumbed to disease and Sea Lice. This is something that is within our abilty to control immediately by removing the Fish Farms from the Ocean where as Climate Change is a longer term issue that also needs to be worked on. If some rogue seals and sea lions have adapted to an unacceptable niche thats killing lots of smolts or returning adults lets take those out. Whale watching boats are not mom and pop operations and i'm sure they are spending some of thier profits on a lobbyist to avoid the protocals they should be forced to work under. Try going to the bathroom with someone standing there watching you and see how you like it.
california
Well-Known Member
I have never stated any such thing, I have stated the opposite on several occassions. Nor do I believe it is at the point where that is necessary, and hope it never does become so. Perhaps that's your interpretation, but as a sport fisherman why would I want an end to an activity I enjoy? My opposition to certain items of dogma like hatchery production being the answer don't mean I oppose fishing. Certainly pink and Chum stocks support fisheries and it appears they will continue to do so. Its inevitable that retention will have to go down for Chinook, and the fishing exclusion zones for SRKW seem to be a done deal.
In a world that looked only objectively at the impacts and benefits of chinook fisheries, sport fishing would always win out on allocations over Commercial. Politically that's not the way it works as commercial interests have the power and money, so sport fisherman will have to take more of a hit.
As for SRKW, I do not believe the only issue for them is Chinook abundance. As with all ecological matters, its rarely so simple. Northern residents are doing very well, increasing in number while also facing declines in Chinook. What southern residents have to deal more with is pollution, shipping traffic, boats with gear down fishing in their foraging areas, constant harassment from whale watching boats, and very likely issues we are not even aware of. Only stopping fishing would be no more of a silver bullet for the whales than indiscriminate killing of seals would be for Chinook.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Thank you for clarifying you position and your honesty about your position. It is well received and a breath of fresh air on this forums.
and PS watch out in 2019 the Americans have asked for our commercial trollers to take a 15-30% hit in Chinook allocation.
How do you propose then we tackle the supply side? as it looks like demand is going to increase for wild salmon, SRKW (hope to grow the population), Dogfish/other salmon predators, Birds, Recreational fishermen(unclear if population is growing), First Nations (growing population), Commercial fishery (increasing demand for seafood), Seals (growing population), The removal of fish farms (will spike demand and increase poaching) and most importantly a trend in warming seas temperatures (unclear as chum stocks are increasing in places but seems to be dramatically effecting Spring Chinook and steel head populations.
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tincan
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know how many pieces the commercial chinook troll fleet off WCVI takes each year? Is it in the 50-100K range? If so this would be a somewhat significant number of adult chinook (whale food) that could potentially be available should the gov't want an 'immediate' impact. From what I understand there is a large fund sitting in Ottawa that could be used to compensate these commercial trollers in exchange for their agreement on not fishing for a period to time.
As most on here know, for chinook salmon the allocation according to law is: 1) conservation 2) FN 3) rec 4) commercial.
Could be a good short term option that would have an immediate impact.... at a financial cost of course but hey, the feds seem to be pumping tens of millions into a lot of 'iffy' research, etc so could be worth a shot.
As most on here know, for chinook salmon the allocation according to law is: 1) conservation 2) FN 3) rec 4) commercial.
Could be a good short term option that would have an immediate impact.... at a financial cost of course but hey, the feds seem to be pumping tens of millions into a lot of 'iffy' research, etc so could be worth a shot.
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