BC Pipeline Ruling In

[walleyes]

The Narwhal lol.

 

[agentaqua]

Ya because Ezra already had the "Unicorn" tied-up as a blog header...

 

[mcallagan]

The capacity for the pipe has already been bought out. It is all for diluted Bitumen and nothing else.
No space for any other product, gasoline light crude, natural gas, etc.
The price for it being shipped to any where but the States is a good thing as we sell petroleum products to the States well below the world market price.
Don't forget Trudeau promised us "World Class" response in case of a spill!! ..yea right :-(

 

[agentaqua]

The capacity for the pipe has already been bought out. It is all for diluted Bitumen and nothing else.
No space for any other product, gasoline light crude, natural gas, etc.
The price for it being shipped to any where but the States is a good thing as we sell petroleum products to the States well below the world market price.
Don't forget Trudeau promised us "World Class" response in case of a spill!! ..yea right :-(

Maybe Justin Beber had a plan for SNC Lavalin to take over on the spill response...

 

[ILHG]

I know this is the intent of TMX and this is what everyone thinks but it’s a little known fact that is being kept quiet. It is highly unlikely they will load ships out of Burnaby and they will be sailed over to Asia. There was an article some while back in Alberta Oil magazine that discussed this to some length. The Port is not suitable for the large super tankers that are used to sail over seas and it’s not economical to sail with smaller ships. Like I said it will help our price because it is takeaway but not to the effect it opens up our market options. More than likely the oil is going to refineries in California. As much as California totes the anti Alberta oil card they love the stuff and can’t get enough of it. What a better way to sneak it in there than by ship. To most people it’s just another ship coming in, it’s not as publicly visible as getting a pipeline in as we all can tell.

Unless something is going to change in the terminal to allow the super tankers in but I have yet to read anything to this regard. I’m not even sure it’s a suitable area. In my research the largest tankers that come into Burnaby are Aframax class tankers which again in my research are mid range ships. The only water on the west coast suitable for VLCC class tankers is in Kitimat.

You are correct. Dont ask why, but as soon as the oil touches tide water I will sell for more. At imes even going for North Sea Brent prices.

 

[ILHG]

Actually shipping by rail is a lot less risky to the environment because in a derailment only a few cars leave the track and usually they will not totally rupture where as a pipeline spill keeps on spilling until someone discovers it. Spill volume wise there has been a lot more Oil spilled from ruptured pipelines even very new pipelines than ever will be spilled by rail. Don't see too many tanker truck accidents either but since they are required to deliver refined petrolium to gas stations its amazing there are only a very few accidents with tanker trucks. I don't think you are suggesting they build pipelines to each gas station too are you? When the incident were to happen in the Harbour they have no means to clean up the Raw Bitumen as it sinks and then just spreads like deadly goop killing everything that lives on the ocean floor. Do you actually believe that the shipping company will have the ability to scoop all that up off the ocean floor or just go bankrupt and leave it. Our tourism is not worth the risk and niether is our health.

They are not shipping raw bitumen man, its diluted with condensate which is a product of Natural gas. .... Look up the density of the product being shipped & compare it to sea water. They please explain how it will sink.. The maximum density you will see going through TMX is 947 kg/m3. The density oif sea water is 1030kg/m3.

As for the argument that wave action will cause it to break down & sink... Thats the same with any oil. The more the light ends in the oil are agitated or heated they will flash off, leaving a heavier product. Even Alaska oil will do the same. For the most part the heavier ends of any oil are much easier composted naturally from mico organisms because all the volatile ends have been removed.

 

[terrin]

They are not shipping raw bitumen man, its diluted with condensate which is a product of Natural gas. .... Look up the density of the product being shipped & compare it to sea water. They please explain how it will sink.. The maximum density you will see going through TMX is 947 kg/m3. The density oif sea water is 1030kg/m3.

As for the argument that wave action will cause it to break down & sink... Thats the same with any oil. The more the light ends in the oil are agitated or heated they will flash off, leaving a heavier product. Even Alaska oil will do the same. For the most part the heavier ends of any oil are much easier composted naturally from mico organisms because all the volatile ends have been removed.

How many decades does the natural composting take? The Exxon spill is still composting as far as I know and in the meantime very little if anything lives there, certainly no clams, oysters, crabs or seaworms. Its basically a dead zone.

 

[wildmanyeah]

How many decades does the natural composting take? The Exxon spill is still composting as far as I know and in the meantime very little if anything lives there, certainly no clams, oysters, crabs or seaworms. Its basically a dead zone.

Natural composting, well I think It took about a million years to get to the state its in. The light ends will cook off into the atmosphere but the low end asphalt will be around pretty much forever.

The only solution is Dilution

 

[GLG]

If anyone wants to understand the oil markets and the potential of Alberta oil then these two links are great primers to that.
My guess is that Alberta oil will sell for between 7 and 10 dollars (Hardisty price out of Vancouver) less than Brent. I would argue that Alberta oil will trade/compete with Mexican Mayan. That competition should also lower the price of Mexican Mayan. There is a new driver in the world with low sulfur fuel for shipping rules coming into effect in 2020 and this made aid Alberta crude because you can get more fuel from the same barrel as compared to other benchmark oils. Also notice that the best market for Alberta oil is US Gulf Coast.

Markets
https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/ma...y-alberta-crude-sells-at-deep-discount-to-wti

Prices
https://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts/71

I will also add that one of the best journalists on the Canadian oil patch is this guy.
https://energi.media/

 

[The Jackel]

Terrin, do you own a boat, if so can you show us pictures of the solar and sail set up so maybe we could follow your example. Also i am assuming it is made out of cedar, from a tree that died a natural death and washed up on the shore and that it was made only using hand tools as we all know that you are to righteous to own a vessel that would have used any oil products in its manufacturing, thanks in advance.

 

[agentaqua]

The solution to pollution (esp. bitumen) is not dilution - it's instead not polluting - strangely and logically. Bitumen doesn't "dilute" unless you add a volatile hydrocarbon to it - (which is why they do that to pump and transport bitumen now called "dilbit") which then evaporates away leaving the tar component with PAHs and other constituents in it. Those toxic and cancer-causing constituents do eventually (over ~20+ years) weather away and get released into the water column - but the sticky tar remains glomed onto the sediments in beaches. Over time the tar works it's way down deeper in the sediments. Bitumen does kill fish embryos outright and also can cause reductions in the immune response in fishes. Not-so surprisingly herring in Prince William Sound have suffered through repeating outbreaks of VHS for years after the Valdez spill and died in mass numbers. W/o herring as a food base - many other trophic interactions in the food chain were curtailed. Saltwater is denser than freshwater and things in it are more buoyant than freshwater. So a bituman spill in freshwater will have a different fate and spill response than one in saltwater.
See:
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2017/mpo-dfo/Fs97-6-3219-eng.pdf
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/21834/spills-of-diluted-bitumen-from-pipelines-a-comparative-study-of
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/2018JC013790
https://www.newsdeeply.com/oceans/a...sons-from-alaskas-mysterious-herring-collapse
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28695263
https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40689487.pdf
https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40711237.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5775368/pdf/128_2017_Article_2239.pdf
https://comparativephys.ca/gillislab/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/08/ETC-final-proof.pdf.

 

[GLG]

Terrin, do you own a boat, if so can you show us pictures of the solar and sail set up so maybe we could follow your example. Also i am assuming it is made out of cedar, from a tree that died a natural death and washed up on the shore and that it was made only using hand tools as we all know that you are to righteous to own a vessel that would have used any oil products in its manufacturing, thanks in advance.

That's some argument. Tell me would you use the same argument if it was about healthcare? Would it go like this.....
You are not allowed to criticize the healthcare system because you see a doctor and until then your a hypocrite.

 

[Pippen]

[

That's some argument. Tell me would you use the same argument if it was about healthcare? Would it go like this.....
You are not allowed to criticize the healthcare system because you see a doctor and until then your a hypocrite.

Hmmm....criticizing with a very flawed rebuttal.

Yes you can criticize healthcare AND see a doctor as it may be a matter of life or death...but you still see a flaw in the system. Hating on a pipeline whilst driving a vehicle around....fishing off a boat for pleasure...utilizing tones of petroleum products....but don’t bring a product to market that affords me luxuries in my life more efficiently?????

It’s like protesting against prostitution but you’re still banging a hooker instead of your wife whom you are “committed” to.

 

[wildmanyeah]

I remember on the PBPS facebook page, Thomas Sewid told the environmentalists that he would stop herring fishing if they offered him a job where he could make 50k in a couple of months. Needless to say none of them stepped up to offer him a job.

 

[agentaqua]

[


Hmmm....criticizing with a very flawed rebuttal.

Yes you can criticize healthcare AND see a doctor as it may be a matter of life or death...but you still see a flaw in the system. Hating on a pipeline whilst driving a vehicle around....fishing off a boat for pleasure...utilizing tones of petroleum products....but don’t bring a product to market that affords me luxuries in my life more efficiently?????

It’s like protesting against prostitution but you’re still banging a hooker instead of your wife whom you are “committed” to.

Even though this post eerily echos the realities in Trump's Presidency it also ignore who's running the prostitution ring.

Governance is supposed to provide incentives while being accountable to the constituency (and NOT any claimed party) making decisions on vetted and robust information.

If governance devolves into prostitution and the pimps and organized crime run the show - you no longer have a open, honest and effective decision-making process - which is the fight here against global warming and environmental disasters.

 

[dradons]

You guys are not discussing in good faith and are using fallacies.

Just because someone uses oil products does not mean they can't be critical/have concerns about the industry.

For example, I love beef, will eat a ribeye when it's offered. That being said, I know beef is one of the least efficient animals to be raised. IE requires the most energy/water etc per pound and they are legit reasons to critique certain beef farming practices.

However, if someone started an argument with do you eat beef?....well then you are hypocrite shut up until such time you cleansed your diet of beef...

I think there would be better discussions if we leave these fallacy arguments out of the discussion.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Even though this post eerily echos the realities in Trump's Presidency it also ignore who's running the prostitution ring.

If governance devolves into prostitution and the pimps and organized crime run the show - you no longer have a open, honest and effective decision-making process - which is the fight here against global warming and environmental disasters.

Lol the current government owns the hob gobbling pipe sucking show and yet globally they are seen as one of the only bastions left that is not run by a populist, they are still interested in global climate change and implementing UN initiatives.

 

[nicnat]

Best check your facts. What makes Bakken oil more flammable than other oil, like the heavy crude harvested from Canada's tar sands? Basically, it contains more natural gas, making its vapor combustible at a much lower temperature. More specifically, Bakken crude tends to have sizable amounts of easily ignitable propane and butane, Zak Mortensen at oil-quality analysis firm Inspectorate America Corp. tells Bloomberg News. There is, of course, another option: Pipelines. But pipelines can and do rupture, and Bakken crude won't become any less explosive just because it isn't being carried by rail. Also, the only proposed pipeline to pass through North Dakota — Keystone XL — goes only south, toward the Gulf Coast. Here is the link in case your interested https://theweek.com/articles/453622/why-north-dakota-oil-dangerously-flammable Lac-Megantic disaster was Bakken oil.

true about the bakken oil and explosion risks related to transporting that as opposed to tarsands products. however, if you think that there is no chance of a train snaking down the fraser canyon would not rupture and leak into the fraser you are nuts or sadly misinformed. this risk alone is enough to warrant twinning the pipeline. look what happened to the chekamus river when 1 caustic car (granted it wasn't oil) leaked after an accident. I live right on the maplewood mudflats and have watched these tankers come and go for over 30 years and I am very hard pressed to see a problem with more tankers. I am retired and did charters out of sewell's for years and fish locally on a regular basis, I get my crab right in front of my house across from the refinery. I don't think there is anyone on here that would be more affected by a spill than I would. In a perfect world there would be no need for this pipeline, we are a ways away from that world. I am 110% for this pipeline and so are a lot of my neighbors. Svend Robinson (he is running for the ndp in our riding next federal election) came knocking on our door campaigning a couple of weeks ago, first thing he said was we will fight to stop that pipeline, I said you have **** for brains and so does your party, now get the fack off of my property you thieving sob.

 

[agentaqua]

Lol the current government owns the hob gobbling pipe sucking show and yet globally they are seen as one of the only bastions left that is not run by a populist, they are still interested in global climate change and implementing UN initiatives.

Hence my comments about: "the pimps and organized crime running the show"...
Hello SNC Lavalin...

 

[ILHG]

That's some argument. Tell me would you use the same argument if it was about healthcare? Would it go like this.....
You are not allowed to criticize the healthcare system because you see a doctor and until then your a hypocrite.

Hypocrite is spending your carrier in the oil patch, retiring off it & then now that you have nothing to lose;,,, you oppose it.