jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
haha..well i was trying to be nice as not to get kicked off the forum ..i might have a new signature line now..
alex morton
- Thread starter reelfast
- Start date
Thanks for the polite suggestion reelfast. I have of course watched the movie; very slick and well done but full of misrepresentations, altered and cherry picked statements taken out of context, and outright omissions of the facts that don't sit well with Ms. Morton's camp. The movie also slandered a man I respect, Dr. Simon Jones.
If you are really following this issue you will know there is another site (Google salmon confidential exposed) that explains the errors. You might want to read a bit of it and perhaps also the transcripts from the Cohen Enquiry; if after that you still believe salmon farms are the principal cause of wild salmon populations crashing, well, I can't help you so send her more money..
I find it interesting that Ms. Morton never, ever, mentions American salmon farms; do you have any thoughts on why that may be?
If you are really following this issue you will know there is another site (Google salmon confidential exposed) that explains the errors. You might want to read a bit of it and perhaps also the transcripts from the Cohen Enquiry; if after that you still believe salmon farms are the principal cause of wild salmon populations crashing, well, I can't help you so send her more money..
I find it interesting that Ms. Morton never, ever, mentions American salmon farms; do you have any thoughts on why that may be?
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
He is right Dave, you cannot come on to a sportfishing forum and try and discredit someone who has made it their life's work to protect wild salmon without cold hard facts. The film is an absolute eye-opener as to at least some of the reasons our wild salmon are on the decline.. I.S.A. and P.R.V are real problems in the fish farming industry and the fact our government is trying to muzzle research from our own top scientist's in favor of big business is truly disturbing. If you do not see net pen fish farms as a problem facing our wild salmon stocks you need to do a little more reading.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry about getting kicked off the forum. Even though there was a recent blow out on a halibut thread where people quit and were removed from the forum and a new set of "rules" were put in place it would seem that the exception is the fish farm thread. Here according to recent activities you can say pretty much anything you want to the pro farm guys. Charlie, forum hero, actually made some pretty serious statements that in my opinion were fairly sever and he is still around. The moderators didn't bat an eye as far as I know. Pathetic if you ask me. I cant help but to think the moderators are bias but hey, thats just me. Its their forum so they may do what ever they wish. If it was my forum I would moderate in a manor that represents the sport fishing community as a whole and not allow such behaviour for I believe that when an outsider sees this it reflects poorly on us as a group. But it is private and I am a guest here and I accept that because of my views on salmon farms I will be bashed belittled and threatened. Real cool eh. Its hard to tell if the pro farm guys can do the same for they never show such behaviour. We really dont know and will likely never find out.
It is always entertaining how people make assumption about others on these threads. You comments about Dave suggest firmly that you are making many assumptions about him. He is a very fishy fella with more years working in with fisheries than most of us. To suggest that he has reading to do shows that assumptions are being made of him. This guy knows fish more that most of us.
As far as mortons latest works, like dave mentions this film is not factual and his recommended links will show you why. One would have to wonder what all the results of her virus testing are. She Has been traveling everywhere sampling right, yet she presents no data just a documentary. Where are her results from a year or twos worth of sampling. There are none.
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
I've been trying to find out what the 7 labs she keeps mentioning are that have found segments of ISA.
Hume didn't bother to ask in his latest piece, he just repeated her without doing any sort of investigation whatsoever.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...tive-for-three-fish-diseases/article12488672/
"But Ms. Morton said she has continued to get positive hits for ISA in samples that she and volunteers collected over the past two years. She said those tests have been confirmed by seven different labs and called in to question the CFIA’s research.
“What the seven labs found are segments of the virus,” she said. “We definitely have ISA virus here. You can’t have seven labs getting big chunks of the sequence and not have it here.”
If Kibenge's lab (which was recently stripped of it's Reference Lab designation - http://www.oie.int/en/for-the-media...le/information-on-oie-reference-laboratories/) was one of them - what were the other 6 she is talking about?
She should be able to answer simple questions about claims she makes, shouldn't she?
Do the same cries for transparency and accountability not apply to her as well?
Maybe this is the wrong place to ask...
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jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
It's Alright Birdsnest,I understand it is a very touchy subject on either side of the table.If Atlantic salmon were farmed on land you would not have so many people against fishfarms,But there is no need to tell you that because i understand you know much more about it then your willing to let on. The great thing about an opinion is the fact that everyone is entitled to one and this forum is a great place for us to discuss ours. No disrespect to you or Dave as i realize where you both stand on the matter and enjoy reading what both of you have to say.
Andrew P
Well-Known Member
It is pretty messed that a bunch of industry spokespeople can come onto this site and be filling the pages with industry propaganda, trying to convince a bunch of people who care about wild fish(and hatchery raised) that the industry really has wild fish in mind and that everything is just A-OK. You are convincing no one. All of the hate on for Morton and Suzuki really show your true colours. These are true exceptional Canadians with the public and environments best interest in mind rather than industry.
Ck, this is obviously your job to be on here but who knows about the rest. Seems by your Twitter(a simple search for ClayoquotKid will give anyone interested in all of the Pro-farming tweets they want) activity that you're are just as pro-oil as you are pro-fish farming. No parallels between those industries hey?!
It is hard to swallow that there are people on here that it is part of their job description to do so but deny it, while the rest are because we care about the ocean and maintaining it's natural systems.
Ck, this is obviously your job to be on here but who knows about the rest. Seems by your Twitter(a simple search for ClayoquotKid will give anyone interested in all of the Pro-farming tweets they want) activity that you're are just as pro-oil as you are pro-fish farming. No parallels between those industries hey?!
It is hard to swallow that there are people on here that it is part of their job description to do so but deny it, while the rest are because we care about the ocean and maintaining it's natural systems.
just clicked on 'salmonconfidential.com' as I suspected, the blog is operated and supported by a salmon farmer. so what we just saw in the film from Alex is going to be disputed by an industry person??? sort of like the gas and oil industries trying to create doubt about climate change. remember the tobacco industry with their major goal of creating doubt? from the bit I read on the dotcom site, this guy is trying to follow in those footsteps. but, you really can't walk away from the literature which has been reviewed by panels of experts and published. I think 'science' has far more credibility than this salmon farmer.
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Andrew P
Well-Known Member
Dave, being a fish expert,which I know that you are, what effect do you think that scaping much of the food source that wild salmon depend out of the ocean to feed to farmed fish has had?
The Georgia Strait has harvests of 500 ton per year maximums of Krill for fish food. Then there is all of the left overs from the extremely unsustainable herring roe fishery, which mostly all goes into fish food. I believe it is about 85% of the weight of the herring. The effect of the farms reaches much further than the actual site and is destructive to the entire ecosystem on many levels.
So, even if the farms themselves are the principle cause of the decline of wild fish, their greater influence certainly plays a role. It is such a ridiculous statement to say that if fish farms are not the principle cause of decline then they are fine.
Anyways, I am interested in your expert opinion on that Dave.
The Georgia Strait has harvests of 500 ton per year maximums of Krill for fish food. Then there is all of the left overs from the extremely unsustainable herring roe fishery, which mostly all goes into fish food. I believe it is about 85% of the weight of the herring. The effect of the farms reaches much further than the actual site and is destructive to the entire ecosystem on many levels.
So, even if the farms themselves are the principle cause of the decline of wild fish, their greater influence certainly plays a role. It is such a ridiculous statement to say that if fish farms are not the principle cause of decline then they are fine.
Anyways, I am interested in your expert opinion on that Dave.
Andrew P
Well-Known Member
I do not have that answer....but like you, wish that I did.
My straightforward question for you: is it within the job description of a sustainability officer for a fish farm corporation to do public relations work, such as posting on this site?
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
Actually no, not this particular venue, I just do this for "fun" in my spare time.
Andrew P
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it's tons of fun debating people like me! I was going to call myself a name, but don't want to get kicked off.
ClayoquotKid
Active Member
LOL!
I was at VIU doing a BSc/Aquaculture Tech program when I came out here for my summer practicum - and never went back, so nothing here.
I guess some people would rather be out working than sinking deeper into student loan debt.
Shouldn't really change the veracity or validity of my points though.
Unless you're just looking for reasons to disregard anything that does not fit your world-view...
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
I saw a video on how good salmon farming is and so I know it all now. Any my friends say so, so it is. LOL
All kidding aside, you go first high five. WHat do you do, where do you work? We have been down this road before and basically while dave, kid, and myself say what we do none of your group does. So why dont you start, get the ball rolling on this one because every time I have asked in the past the result is nill with the exception of englishman. He is highly qualified apparently.
On the other hand it is a forum where identities are not manditory so I understand those who will not. It just seems like a different standard for us or myself at least.
If you need to know, I aint much.
All kidding aside, you go first high five. WHat do you do, where do you work? We have been down this road before and basically while dave, kid, and myself say what we do none of your group does. So why dont you start, get the ball rolling on this one because every time I have asked in the past the result is nill with the exception of englishman. He is highly qualified apparently.
On the other hand it is a forum where identities are not manditory so I understand those who will not. It just seems like a different standard for us or myself at least.
If you need to know, I aint much.
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
rebuttal to 'the so called errors'
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/...e-controversy-around-salmon-confidential.html
your turn....
jeffywestcoast
Well-Known Member
they are probably still fabricating the rebuttal rebuttal...give them time
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