A few questions about 15lb line and coyote spoons

[Bravoman]

Hi Everyone,

This is a continuation of my first post regarding a Kayak trip I'll be on in one week in the Broken Islands. (Look here if you're interested http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12875

First off, thank you to everyone who provided great ideas in the other post. As you can see from the photo's below, I've been hard at work studying the forums and putting my gear together.

I have a few questions though.

#1. You can see from the pic with the reels and line, that I have two reels strung with 15lb Maxima Ulragreen. Do you think 15 lb test will hold up for Coho, cod, Spring? and/or Halibut? I picked 15lb test because we're fishing from kayaks and I didn't want something I couldn't break off if I snagged bottom or hooked a monster. This is more a safety consideration than anything else. Also I can hold more line on the reel. After reading a post regarding line test that everyone is using, it seems most guys are on 20lb or 25lb test. So what I'm wondering is whether 15lb will be enough for 90% of what I'll hook. ie. Do I even have a chance of bringing in a 20lb or larger Spring.....in a KAYAK.....with 15lb test line.....with my girlfriend netting it?

#2. Assuming I have a chance bringing in a larger fish with 15lb test line....I really would love to catch a small halibut</u>. I've seen a photo of a halibut caught off Sail Rock in SW Broken Group and Salmon University talks about halibut in Coaster Channel. So can anyone confirm halibut within this area reachable by kayak? I would like to catch a small one (for obvious reasons!) and bought a 8oz B2 Triple Glow Squid to give it a shot. (See photo below) I figured NE of Effingham Island or South of Benson Island would be where I would try.

#3. About the Coyote spoons. Seems most people change the hooks out. With only a 15lb test and fishing form a kayak, I won't be hauling on the line too much. Do you think it's worth the bother changing all the hooks out under these conditions?

#4. What do you think the risk is of dragging a salmon beside your kayak? I'm thinking of when they are bleeding out? or when using a fish string to keep your catch? Will a seal come right up beside a kayak and take the fish? (Possibly flipping the kayak!) Should a guy just get it into the kayak as soon as possible and worry about the slime later? Don't even bleed it out?

#5. What are the risks of PSP Shellfish contamination in the Broken Islands? There are no closures, does that mean no risk? Safe to eat up?!?! Just want to make sure because it sounds a little scary! Getting paralyzed and all.

And finally, in an effort to contribute a bit to this site, I found the following website very helpfull, and kind of fun to fool around on. http://www.canbcdw.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/ows/imf.jsp?site=mapster See the last photo below for an example of what this site can do. It shows fishing areas, crabbing areas, clams, shellfish closures, Rockfish conservation areas and even the charts. You can zoom in and get all the same detail as the original charts. This particular one is a little off, but you get the idea. The old salts will already know all these areas, but for those of us just starting, there is some good information there.

Photos</u>

My reels with line. The red one is an Ambassadeur 6600 BCX, the green is an Ambassadeur 6600C5 MAG-X and the black one was given to me for free by a nice guy at the fishing store and it's a Penn 210. Weighs a ton and haven't tried it out yet. Need to pull it apart and see how bad it looks.

Jigging selection! "Tubber" will be happy to see a nice selection of Zzinger there. Couldn't resist trying some butterfly jigs.

Selection of Coyote spoons. Hopefully IronNoggin's coyote mod works for me! So, do I need to change all these hooks out?

My bucktails, hoochies and flashers. These are the mini flashers. I figure with kayaking, probably can't work a full size flasher, and these would be mostly to add some action to the hoochies and bucktails. Probably only 3ft leader? then another 3ft and slip weight?

Finally, I hope someone can find this pic usefull. Shows what Mapster can do hilighting the recreational fishing grounds and chart 3670.

Thank you again to everyone on this forum. I've gained so much insight and knowledge that probably would have taken 10 to 20 years to pick up on my own. So.....Thank you!

Now.....I just wanna catch a salmon!..........and a halibut!..................and a snapper!.......................and a ling!

Trev

 

[Dogbreath]

quote:I figure with kayaking, probably can't work a full size flasher, and these would be mostly to add some action to the hoochies and bucktails. Probably only 3ft leader? then another 3ft and slip weight?

3 ft leader then 10-20 feet to the weight you don't want the weight near the flasher.

Anyway you're loaded for bear no worries there.

One way to address the light line challenge is to use a section of doubled line.

Cut a length of your mainline double the length of your fishing rod and use a double uni-knot to re attach the single mainline with the doubled piece.

It's late I swam a bunch today and I'm beat but basically you're using the doubled length as a shock absorber-but it's not that long and you can still bust off if you have to.

Big game anglers use this same setup when fishing for huge pelagics there's no reason you can't use it as insurance in a scaled down application.

It'll take a bit of practice to get the uni-knot just right but you can build the knot how you want-4 turns on the doubled side and 6 on the single.

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[Bravoman]

Thanks Dogbreath. Not sure I follow you. Do I tie the lure to the cut end line, then with half a uni knot close to the lure, attach the main line to the cut line, then another half uni knot two rod lenghts away attaching the far end of the cut line to the main line. Then if I catch something really big, the two uni knots slide together to absorb some of the shock insted of snapping the line? Is this what you are talking about? I'm just confused whether I have two or three lines for a portion? Tie to hook with two lines, then double uni knot too single line?


To any Moderators:</u> Seems I can't edit my own post, not sure why. The title is a little off, if someone could replace with "Broken Grp: 15lb test for hali and springs?, Where to find Hali?, Coyote spoon hooks?" Thanks.

 

[Steelhead S2]

Sounds like a fun trip you have planned. I can't wait to get out there this August too. As far a hanging fish goes, in my experience a seal will happily take a fish hanging from your boat. And there is definitely a risk of capsizing, because they are very strong. It would be like lassoing a pig on a unicycle. If you don't want the fish in the boat, you might get away with hanging it in a potato sack or something like that, but they may still investigate because of the smell.

As far as the 15# line goes, I think you'll be fine. You a pretty limited in how much pressure you can put on a fish in a kayak anyway. Just play it carefully, and a little longer than you would on a bigger boat.

Have fun!

 

[Bravoman]

And here are some knot websites. Hopefully some people find helpful.

The first illustrates the double uni, but as you can see it just joins two lines, doesn't double up one of them, that is why I'm confused Dogbreath.

http://www.netknots.com/html/double_uni_knot.html

http://videofishingknots.com/joining-lines.html

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Trev

 

[Bravoman]

Steelhead S2 - I will be out there from Aug. 10th to 17th. Will you be around?

 

[Dogbreath]

This format doesn't allow editing of the title or first post.

You tie the doubled line to the single line (= to -) and then the doubled line to the lure.

Good luck having a newbie net your fish, always net from the head end Salmon have no reverse gear and wait until the Salmon goes on his side before netting don't be too eager.

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[cliffjumper]

Hey Bravoman have a great trip sounds excellent.

I've done open canoe salmon fishing... put the salmon in your boat & clean the boat when you beach. The seals or worse, sealions, will pull you over (not if). Been there, no good, and you lose a lot of stuff.

15# in a kayak is fine. The pressure your second mate can put on with paddles won't be a problem, and the boat's give plus rod s/b Ok. The only thing is to tire the fish a bit before trying to net and plan for the last run as you get it to the boat (looser drag).

I would personally use 50# braid with mono leader, esp when using the flasher. That way if a seal grabs your fish, straight pull break-off and at least you still keep your flasher. Tie the jigs onto mono leader, 1'-3', and same thing the mono leader will break and you won't risk losing half a spool of line. The co-incident bonus is added line capacity (240-300 yd compared to 200) and a lot less stretch, which you don't need in a kayak/canoe.

With your Zingers, BuzzBombs & Luhr Jensen jigs, put singles top & bottom. The sacrifice jigs: double split ring & siwash hook on the bottom. The bottom-hooked jigs, tie a sacrifice hook on braid and loop through the top eye. For Buzz Bomb/Zingers, just slip an octopus hook up the line a couple small beads then the lead, bumper & tie on your bottom-hook. Some of the smaller size jigs have small trebles. Discard them for a 2/0-4/0 single. You get a better bite-gap with the single, and it is a clear gap, unlike the smaller trebles which have the bulk of the jig interfering with the gap. It's easy to see that when comparing against the Luhr Jensen & single bottom hook. Roughly half my landings are on the top hook.

I'd also suggest adding a couple jig lures... a couple 3oz long Deadly Di(c)k green metallic stripe and a couple Gibbs Depthcharges in army truck. Those are my two most productive jig lures.

You can troll long & deep "walleye runner" style plugs, weight-free & about 20' down at paddling speed. You'll get coho. Storm also makes a deep diver in 'superman' that got limits of coho 3 days running, weight-free.

I haven't tried the BCX, but those C5's are a fantastic reel to cast. You don't need to put the centrifugal weight blocks on the two pins (your older model) to control your casting, the magnets alone work perfectly well. Too bad they're discontinued. For rods in a Kayak, I've heard a shorter butt-handle section (mooching-style) is easier to manage than the normal longer rear handle (casting-style). Having been a whitewater kayaker who trout-fished in years gone by, I can easily see that makes sense.

I still recommend using a stringer, and prefer the ones with the separated, sliding saftey-pin style clips. Given your limited real estate, when you net your fish, slippery suckers they are, I like to pin them as quick as possible with the stringer, then bonk/clean. Then when they flop around or slide on your plastic/glass boat, they won't get lost. Same when cleaning, keep them pinned & you won't lose your fish when it slides around. But I strongly suggest not hanging them off the side of your boat, better to clean the boat than right it.

What I did in my canoe, as I didn't have a DRigger & it's hard to snap off a salmon clip, and given your travel speed, was to use a handline with distance marks & a 3 lb ball. I used a kokanee DR clip (light tension). As you have a second mate, she (or you) can drag up the ball while the other plays the fish. Much better than fighting the in-line weight as well as the fish. The weight hangs straight down the side of your yak so it won't interfere with paddling.

I use herring paste scent on my jigs, spoons & plugs.

Cheers!

 

[TheBigGuy]

My suggestion is that 36" leaders for non action lures such as hootchies might be a bit too long for the small size flashers. I would try shorter 22-26" leaders, for several reasons. Without downriggers you are more likely to be targeting Coho in fairly shallow depths. Coho prefer a hootchie to have lots of action. As you will be paddling you will probably not be moving that fast. A shorter leader will give you the lively action that coho prefer when trolling at slower speeds. The shorter leader will probably get you far more action, but may not be as attractive to larger springs. It's the old quantity vs quality dilemma.

Also for a jigging lure in the Sound, yellow tail zinger is a great addition to what you already have.

 

[Smellslikefish]

I'm not a kayaker or a tackle salesperson, but if I was inclined to fish from a kayak I'd find a place with kelp beds in a shallow-sheltered place where the bait likes to hide out. Skip the flasher and paddle super-slow + changing speed now and then. Use a ~6 rod and clip a~2oz weight to a Sinker Slide on the main line followed by a bead then a bead swivel followed by as long of a monofilament leader as you can get away with and still land a fish. You'd be fishing in ~30' of water and a Sinker Slide with ~2oz clipped to it should get your lure down ~25' where the predator fish you'd like for supper are hopefully cruising for bait. An alternative to a Sinker Slide might be to use a Dipsy Diver to get your lure down where it needs to be. As others have said, the art to catching and landing a fish with light line is to lighten up the drag and play them out under the water so they don't break the line or thrash around on the surface as you net them. To preserve the quality of the meat and prevent a wrestling match with a sea mammal I'd fill as big of a dry bag as you can carry half full of ice and stuff your freshly killed fish in it to bleed out on the way back to camp - stow it between your knees on the way back and don't forget to rinse the bag. If you can't use ice get back to camp and get it on the grill or in the freezer ASAP. I'd use brined herring cut plugs but a hootchie or whatever you have would probably work. Tight lines!

 

[PEETZcanada]

In a kayak your boat is part of your system. I5 is ample in most any condition. When I started fishing our heaviest lines were 12 and 15 mainline loaded to almost 500 yrds for trolling from a boat. Mind you that was near the end of an Era. Light lines were common place in many areas around Vancouver Island. Once downriggers came into play, the lines started to creap up to were most of the market is now.

 

[acrowe]

Take this with a grain of salt as I assume that you will need to use the same rods for trolling and jigging. For jigging I would use braid on my reels, it is much better for jigging at any depth. Without a downrigger any deeper fishing is going to be jigging, and halibut are mostly going to be deeper than its convenient to jig with 15lb mono (Chinooks probably too). You could use 20-30lb braid and a huge amount will fit on any of those reels. As for being able to break off, you are going to want to us a mono (or Fluoro some like) leader to avoid tangling the line on the jig all the time. You can choose the weight of your leader with ease of breaking off in mind (in my experience even 20lb braid isn't convenient to break unless it rubs on something).
I do think for trolling light mono is good.