2010 Halibut Catch Recommendations
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
- Start date
B
Bogman
Guest
NOne of it was gifted in my mind. If most of the sports guys knew what the original halibut fleet had to go through they may understand a little better. If they knew alll the details of the split and how and why it came about they would understand a little better. If they focus on the future and quit blaming and bitching about the past we could get somewhere.I don't expect much for another 20-30 years though as it took the commercial fleet along time to get just a little on the ball. The charter and sports fleet are still in the infancy of thier knowledge and bitching. Maybe one day.
"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"
"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"
T
Tofinoguy
Guest
But getting gifted 88% is better.
Derby..ahh...no. The majority of lodge and charter customers has been historically American. Over 23 years in the business only the past 2 years has seen the trend reverse as Americans aren't traveling north. As a license vendor it is easy to keep track on resident verses non-resident business. It has been a steady 60 to 65 % US all but this and last year. The lodges up north that are going out of business are suffering because of this fact. The largest share came from the following states, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona and Texas. (for me)
searun
Well-Known Member
mmmmmmmmmm, been a bit longer than last 2 years that the US guests have more or less stopped coming, or at least that has been my experience and marketing effort. Still getting them, but they are not a large factor such as they were pre 911 and the border issues plus the drop in the currency advantage. I know a few guys who went to all the PNW shows in the US and did not do all that well for bookings, so hardly worth the effort and expense.
Back on the topic....
In the end, all we do is facilitate sports anglers getting on the water to pursue their legitimate right to catch these great fish. We should stop trying to change the allocation and start figuring out how to make the one we have work. Utter waste of time to keep crying over the allocation issue. Better if we work with the commercial sector to find a workable solution for all concerned in my view.
The 88/12 allocation worked pretty good prior to the rapid expansion of the sport fishing fleet combined with the reduction in available biomass (oops, forgot, we don't have a conservation problem), and in particular the almost overnight growth in the number of charter/lodge operators. I can practically hear my tires being slashed for even thinking such thoughts...but maybe it is time we introduced a license system to help limit the growth of the guide industry.[xx(][xx(][xx(]
Searun
Back on the topic....
In the end, all we do is facilitate sports anglers getting on the water to pursue their legitimate right to catch these great fish. We should stop trying to change the allocation and start figuring out how to make the one we have work. Utter waste of time to keep crying over the allocation issue. Better if we work with the commercial sector to find a workable solution for all concerned in my view.
The 88/12 allocation worked pretty good prior to the rapid expansion of the sport fishing fleet combined with the reduction in available biomass (oops, forgot, we don't have a conservation problem), and in particular the almost overnight growth in the number of charter/lodge operators. I can practically hear my tires being slashed for even thinking such thoughts...but maybe it is time we introduced a license system to help limit the growth of the guide industry.[xx(][xx(][xx(]
Searun
fish4all
Well-Known Member
quote:Originally posted by searun
mmmmmmmmmm, been a bit longer than last 2 years that the US guests have more or less stopped coming, or at least that has been my experience and marketing effort. Still getting them, but they are not a large factor such as they were pre 911 and the border issues plus the drop in the currency advantage. I know a few guys who went to all the PNW shows in the US and did not do all that well for bookings, so hardly worth the effort and expense.
Back on the topic....
In the end, all we do is facilitate sports anglers getting on the water to pursue their legitimate right to catch these great fish. We should stop trying to change the allocation and start figuring out how to make the one we have work. Utter waste of time to keep crying over the allocation issue. Better if we work with the commercial sector to find a workable solution for all concerned in my view.
The 88/12 allocation worked pretty good prior to the rapid expansion of the sport fishing fleet combined with the reduction in available biomass (oops, forgot, we don't have a conservation problem), and in particular the almost overnight growth in the number of charter/lodge operators. I can practically hear my tires being slashed for even thinking such thoughts...but maybe it is time we introduced a license system to help limit the growth of the guide industry.[xx(][xx(][xx(]
Searun
Not sure who you are or where your from Searun but it is refreshing to see that someone gets it.
wolf
Well-Known Member
The lodge where I work yes mostly americans here in vic and sooke and pertaining to halibut mostly canadiens fishing for halibut.But I get the same people year after year wanting halibut and a few are locals who live here in b.c id say about 70% of them the rest from alberta and other places.
wolf
wolf
i used to travel north to fish. for me this has zero to do with 9.11 or the absolutely stupid surface show at the airports. this is all about cost.
i can travel south to a place like CR and spend a week with my wife fishing for true trophy fish for 7-8k total, airfare, lodging which includes 3 squares + all the alcohol i want, guide with fast boat, gear and sunshine, it's hard to go north any longer.
you charter guys can do the math but the price i quoted above is for real. ask yourself how much you would charge me for the same package and i think you will have a good portion of your declining customer base identified.
i can travel south to a place like CR and spend a week with my wife fishing for true trophy fish for 7-8k total, airfare, lodging which includes 3 squares + all the alcohol i want, guide with fast boat, gear and sunshine, it's hard to go north any longer.
you charter guys can do the math but the price i quoted above is for real. ask yourself how much you would charge me for the same package and i think you will have a good portion of your declining customer base identified.
B
Bogman
Guest
Reelfast ,your point is well understood but you really are comparing apples to oranges. The lodge and charter operators up here are not gouging the market just trying to get by a hopefully make a profit. With expences going the way they are I know for one we are not getting rich ,not by a long shot. We do value every guest we get and do everything in our power to ensure a great experience (which is why we have a 75% return rate0.
"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"
well bogman, i don't think it is apples and oranges. paying for a guided fishing experience in a fast boat with a skipper and mate is all i am comparing.
if the northern lodges had the same sort of pricing as the southern lodges, it would be a much harder choice regarding which direction to travel and spend money. but i don't think i can get an all inclusive, for 2 people, travelling anywhere north of here for 7-8k for a weeks adventure.
and realize that getting around in CR is not easy so getting supplies for these lodges is just as or more difficult than some of the most remote from the line north. the last adventure down in CR was about 15 miles north of panama and if you tried to drive it, the bamfield road would look like a super highway!
if the northern lodges had the same sort of pricing as the southern lodges, it would be a much harder choice regarding which direction to travel and spend money. but i don't think i can get an all inclusive, for 2 people, travelling anywhere north of here for 7-8k for a weeks adventure.
and realize that getting around in CR is not easy so getting supplies for these lodges is just as or more difficult than some of the most remote from the line north. the last adventure down in CR was about 15 miles north of panama and if you tried to drive it, the bamfield road would look like a super highway!
cuttlefish
Well-Known Member
Sign-up begins soon for limited access sport charter halibut boats
Web posted Jan. 08, 2010
By Margaret Bauman
Alaska Journal of Commerce
A new fishery management program announced Jan. 4 is expected to stabilize the contentious guided sport halibut fishery by permanently limiting participation to some 920 vessels in Southeast and the Central Gulf of Alaska regions.
The permit plan - with a 60 day application period to begin in February - would include 502 vessels in Southeast Alaska, and 418 vessels in the Central Gulf of Alaska, which includes Cook Inlet, said Jay Ginter, regulatory branch chief for the National Marine Fisheries Service in Juneau.
The new plan, previously approved by the North Pacific Fishery Management Council, will go into effect on Feb. 1, 2011. It grew out of a need to stabilize harvests from the guided sport fishery, which were increasing annually and coming in well beyond the guideline harvest level in some areas.
The allocation battle between setline commercial halibut fishermen and guided sport charters has gone on for well over a decade, with each side emphasizing the importance of their sector to the overall economy of Alaska.
"The new program will stabilize the guided charter fishing sector, maintain access to the fishery for businesses that participated in recent years, and allow access for others who can obtain transferable permits," said Doug Mecum, Alaska's acting regional administrator for NOAA fisheries. "The guided sport charter halibut sector in these areas has been growing steadily and exceeding harvest levels set to protect the halibut population. This new program adds incentive for fishermen to conserve the halibut population over time."
Guided sport charter advocates point to the millions of dollars clients spend to book travel, hotels and other amenities along with their guided fishing trips.
The setline sector, meanwhile, notes the ripple effect on the economy of coastal Alaska of millions of dollars commercial harvesters earn and spend.
The guided sport fishery, which has repeatedly exceeded its guideline harvest level in Southeast Alaska, argues there is a need for a higher percentage of the harvest, while the setline fleet, which went to an individual quota system to control its harvest, maintains that all harvesters must share in the responsibility of conservation of the resource.
Sport charter halibut businesses will have to obtain a permit from NOAA to have clients legally catching halibut in Southeast Alaska and the Central Gulf of Alaska.
To qualify, owners would had to have operated in either 2004 or 2005 and in the 2008 season. To quality for a transferable permit, vessels must have logged at least 15 guided fishing trips during those two years.
Those who logged five to 15 trips would be eligible for non-transferable permits, which would be retired if the vessel owner ceases to operate guided charters.
The free permits will not have to be renewed annually, but permit holders will have to contact the National Marine Fisheries service if their business changes in any way, to see if a permit must be reissued, said NMFS fisheries analyst Rachel Baker.
NMFS officials anticipated that 347 of the 502 permits in Southeast Alaska, known as Area 2-C, would be transferable, while in the Central Gulf, also known as Area 3-A, some 319 of the 418 permits would be transferable.
An additional 173 vessels in Southeast Alaska and 154 vessels in the Central Gulf that participated in the guided fishery in 2008 were not expected to qualify because they had not participated in the 2004 or 2005 fisheries, Ginter said.
Under the new program, charter halibut permit holders would be subject to limits on the number of permits they can hold and on the number of charter boat clients who can catch and retain halibut on their charter boats.
Newcomers will be able to enter the charter halibut fishery only by acquiring transferable permits.
Permits will also be issued to community quota groups representing specific rural communities.
Linda Behnken, executive director of the Alaska Longline Fishermen's Association at Sitka, expressed disappointment that the program would not begin until 2011, but praised the limited access program.
"It doesn't in itself limit harvest, but hopefully it will bring some stability to the charter industry," said Behnken.
Harvest allocations of halibut are set annually by the International Pacific Halibut Commission, which represents interests in the United States and Canada.
Richard Yamada, a lodge owner and vice president of the Alaska Charter Association in Juneau, said he believed there won't be much value in transferable permits for a while.
"The people who have the permits will continue to fish them," he said. "I think the moratorium will further divide us, between the haves and the have-nots: those who qualified and those who didn't."
Details of the program can be viewed at http://alaskafisheries.noaa.gov/sustainablefisheries/halibut/sport.htm.
Margaret Bauman can be reached at margie.bauman.@alaskajournal.com.
http://alaskajournal.com/stories/010810/fis_9_002.shtml
Web posted Jan. 08, 2010
By Margaret Bauman
Alaska Journal of Commerce
A new fishery management program announced Jan. 4 is expected to stabilize the contentious guided sport halibut fishery by permanently limiting participation to some 920 vessels in Southeast and the Central Gulf of Alaska regions.
The permit plan - with a 60 day application period to begin in February - would include 502 vessels in Southeast Alaska, and 418 vessels in the Central Gulf of Alaska, which includes Cook Inlet, said Jay Ginter, regulatory branch chief for the National Marine Fisheries Service in Juneau.
The new plan, previously approved by the North Pacific Fishery Management Council, will go into effect on Feb. 1, 2011. It grew out of a need to stabilize harvests from the guided sport fishery, which were increasing annually and coming in well beyond the guideline harvest level in some areas.
The allocation battle between setline commercial halibut fishermen and guided sport charters has gone on for well over a decade, with each side emphasizing the importance of their sector to the overall economy of Alaska.
"The new program will stabilize the guided charter fishing sector, maintain access to the fishery for businesses that participated in recent years, and allow access for others who can obtain transferable permits," said Doug Mecum, Alaska's acting regional administrator for NOAA fisheries. "The guided sport charter halibut sector in these areas has been growing steadily and exceeding harvest levels set to protect the halibut population. This new program adds incentive for fishermen to conserve the halibut population over time."
Guided sport charter advocates point to the millions of dollars clients spend to book travel, hotels and other amenities along with their guided fishing trips.
The setline sector, meanwhile, notes the ripple effect on the economy of coastal Alaska of millions of dollars commercial harvesters earn and spend.
The guided sport fishery, which has repeatedly exceeded its guideline harvest level in Southeast Alaska, argues there is a need for a higher percentage of the harvest, while the setline fleet, which went to an individual quota system to control its harvest, maintains that all harvesters must share in the responsibility of conservation of the resource.
Sport charter halibut businesses will have to obtain a permit from NOAA to have clients legally catching halibut in Southeast Alaska and the Central Gulf of Alaska.
To qualify, owners would had to have operated in either 2004 or 2005 and in the 2008 season. To quality for a transferable permit, vessels must have logged at least 15 guided fishing trips during those two years.
Those who logged five to 15 trips would be eligible for non-transferable permits, which would be retired if the vessel owner ceases to operate guided charters.
The free permits will not have to be renewed annually, but permit holders will have to contact the National Marine Fisheries service if their business changes in any way, to see if a permit must be reissued, said NMFS fisheries analyst Rachel Baker.
NMFS officials anticipated that 347 of the 502 permits in Southeast Alaska, known as Area 2-C, would be transferable, while in the Central Gulf, also known as Area 3-A, some 319 of the 418 permits would be transferable.
An additional 173 vessels in Southeast Alaska and 154 vessels in the Central Gulf that participated in the guided fishery in 2008 were not expected to qualify because they had not participated in the 2004 or 2005 fisheries, Ginter said.
Under the new program, charter halibut permit holders would be subject to limits on the number of permits they can hold and on the number of charter boat clients who can catch and retain halibut on their charter boats.
Newcomers will be able to enter the charter halibut fishery only by acquiring transferable permits.
Permits will also be issued to community quota groups representing specific rural communities.
Linda Behnken, executive director of the Alaska Longline Fishermen's Association at Sitka, expressed disappointment that the program would not begin until 2011, but praised the limited access program.
"It doesn't in itself limit harvest, but hopefully it will bring some stability to the charter industry," said Behnken.
Harvest allocations of halibut are set annually by the International Pacific Halibut Commission, which represents interests in the United States and Canada.
Richard Yamada, a lodge owner and vice president of the Alaska Charter Association in Juneau, said he believed there won't be much value in transferable permits for a while.
"The people who have the permits will continue to fish them," he said. "I think the moratorium will further divide us, between the haves and the have-nots: those who qualified and those who didn't."
Details of the program can be viewed at http://alaskafisheries.noaa.gov/sustainablefisheries/halibut/sport.htm.
Margaret Bauman can be reached at margie.bauman.@alaskajournal.com.
http://alaskajournal.com/stories/010810/fis_9_002.shtml
B
Bogman
Guest
I can se DFO adopting this licencing scheme in the future for our sports lodge and charter operators . It will be interesting to se how they split the 12% up between lodge,charter and joe regular.there will be good and bad on both sides of this but it will be interesting to see the greed comeout when value is put on that licence. In the beginning the IVQ's here were not worth that much (about $4-$6 per pound in 1991 when IVQ's came about) by 1999 they were $25-$29 per pound and today from what I understand about $36-$40 per pound . Now I don't believe that lodge/ charter fleet will get individual quota's in the future but the licencing will have a value I'm sure.
"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"
"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
I expect the 12% will be for Joe Regular and the others will get quota from the commercial.
B
Bogman
Guest
BUY, maybe but GET. Again, it will never happen.
"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"
Fishing Guide
Active Member
Cheers Bogman,
Professionals use a technique called 'visualization' to enhance their performance. So, if a baseball player stands at the plate and says, "There is no way in hell I am going to hit the ball, chances are he is correct."
As for myself I look at the mess that is currently called "Fishing In British Columbia" including the division between Native Fisheries, Sports Fisheries and and Commercial Fisheries and all the inequities within. I prefer to say, "One day it will occur ... and I will be a part of the solution." Further I can assure you it does not involve paying commercial fisherman for part of my rights.
Sincerely,
Fishing Guide
www.invictuscharters.com
BC Outdoors Pro Staff
www.fishingvancouverisland.org
Professionals use a technique called 'visualization' to enhance their performance. So, if a baseball player stands at the plate and says, "There is no way in hell I am going to hit the ball, chances are he is correct."
As for myself I look at the mess that is currently called "Fishing In British Columbia" including the division between Native Fisheries, Sports Fisheries and and Commercial Fisheries and all the inequities within. I prefer to say, "One day it will occur ... and I will be a part of the solution." Further I can assure you it does not involve paying commercial fisherman for part of my rights.
Sincerely,
Fishing Guide
www.invictuscharters.com
BC Outdoors Pro Staff
www.fishingvancouverisland.org
searun
Well-Known Member
A few more converts...refreshing to see. We can accomplish a whole lot more if the user groups start working together. For the moment the Ministry of DO NOTHING are getting away with murder[B)] because they can sit back and let us fight about who gets what...and just when things start to get on track and all the sides are working together they will stir the pot a bit to keep us divided. Fun and games...hoping we can start to work together with all sectors to find win/win solutions.
Searun
Searun
Some of you guy's are way off on this one....
Remember as a commercial vessel charter operators simply provide a platform for regular recreational licence holders to enjoy an opportunity to use there licence per say.
It's dangerous territory if we go the alaskan route...
www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
Remember as a commercial vessel charter operators simply provide a platform for regular recreational licence holders to enjoy an opportunity to use there licence per say.
It's dangerous territory if we go the alaskan route...
www.coastwidesportsfishing.com
http://ca.video.yahoo.com/watch/4726988?fr=yvmtf
searun
Well-Known Member
Richmake, I'm 100% with you on that one....we don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole. A whole lot better if we learn to work within our current quota and with other users to find win/win solutions. That said, I do agree that we need to introduce salt water guide licenses much like the fresh water system to control the growth and ensure high professional standards.
Searun
Searun
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