Fish Farm trouble in BC.

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Here is a graph from PSF on the ratio of smolt to adult. Here is where the problem lies and what PSF and others are working on why this has occurred.
Decline-of-Marine-Survival-in-the-Salish-Sea2.png


https://marinesurvivalproject.com/

Here is a timeline with publications, use the arrow on the right to scroll through them.
https://marinesurvivalproject.com/the-project/how-we-got-here/
 
How can you use Cowichan. River chinook as an argument against climate change not eff ct salmon and then you say ff are hurting all wild salmon.

Cowichan river dumps it’s smolts out in the heart of the cook fish farm area. Shouldn’t Cowichan River then be used as an example of fish farms not hurting wild salmon.

Sheesh lol
There are no fish farms near the Cowichan.... not from around here eh.
 
Here is a graph from PSF on the ratio of smolt to adult. Here is where the problem lies and what PSF and others are working on why this has occurred.
Decline-of-Marine-Survival-in-the-Salish-Sea2.png


https://marinesurvivalproject.com/

Here is a timeline with publications, use the arrow on the right to scroll through them.
https://marinesurvivalproject.com/the-project/how-we-got-here/

Awesome info. I appreciate it. But, you must agree that this doesn't mean the FF's r to blame. It identifies the issue without explaining why. If the Harrison sockeye r migrating into cooler waters, then perhaps they r the real canary in the coal mine. GLG, do the Harrison socks migrate past FF's? Also, why do certain salmon runs crash without FF's being present?

Finally, I like your posts because I was wondering what would happen if we used Harrison sock's to supplement other Fraser river runs? I have no idea if it is legal, but if you put the Harrison socks in a collapsed run, would it follow its genetically programmed migration route?
 
Awesome - now we are getting somewhere... We are going to have some fun trying to figure out why this is the case. What about habitat destruction or over fishing? Are these both smaller or in consequential when compared to FF's?

You may not know this but we have not been able to keep wild coho for over 15 years in the SOG and still the numbers have not bounced back so I would think that you can rule out overfishing. As for habitat destruction that could account for some runs but not all of them because there are many rivers that are in great shape but still the numbers are down. I will keep coming back to the ratio of smolts to adult return. We know that salmon returns go up and down but when you look at the long term trends this ratio is important to watch. If your river is in good shape then you get thousand of smolts leaving in the spring. If we don't have a good ratio then you don't get many adults returning.
 
Awesome info. I appreciate it. But, you must agree that this doesn't mean the FF's r to blame. It identifies the issue without explaining why. If the Harrison sockeye r migrating into cooler waters, then perhaps they r the real canary in the coal mine. GLG, do the Harrison socks migrate past FF's? Also, why do certain salmon runs crash without FF's being present?

Finally, I like your posts because I was wondering what would happen if we used Harrison sock's to supplement other Fraser river runs? I have no idea if it is legal, but if you put the Harrison socks in a collapsed run, would it follow its genetically programmed migration route?

The Harrison River sockeye migrate at a later date so the ocean temp is higher than other Fraser runs. They do not pass by any fish farms. Salmon home in with smell and a magnetic field compass. So they do find where they were born so you can transplant. It works with some stocks of coho, chinook, chum and pinks. For sockeye, each run has evolved to its own river or lake conditions. I'm not sure if you can transplant them. DFO has rules for transplants and anything less than a salmon free river would be a no go.
 
Also, why do certain salmon runs crash without FF's being present?
Look on a map and you will see that salmon smolts have to pass by fish farms on the way to the ocean. Some farms are just meters away from the migration route. I have heard them call those places salmon narrows. I think there is 8 farms and if we could just get those out of the way that would be a start.

If you really what to get a handle on what is going on then it's best to follow what DFO produces each year in documents called State of the Ocean. Here is a link and the docs are near the bottom.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/oceans/publications/index-eng.html

This is a good youtube channel to follow also.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SalmonFoundation/videos
 
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One thing to remember about Harrrison River stocks is that they have also been experiencing substantial pre spawning mortalities in recent years. Harrison fish also occasionally enter the river early and spend up to 6 weeks holding beneath the thermocline in cooler water in Harrison Lake. before dropping back to the river to spawn.
 
How can you use Cowichan. River chinook as an argument against climate change not eff ct salmon and then you say ff are hurting all wild salmon. Cowichan river dumps it’s smolts out in the heart of the cook fish farm area. Shouldn’t Cowichan River then be used as an example of fish farms not hurting wild salmon. Sheesh lol

Your opinion that the Cowichan River smolts go out in the heart of the Cook Fish Farms is just plain wrong!!
Which was also pointed out by GLG.
You also seem to have the opinion that because there are other sources of Wild Salmon being killed that Fish Farms killing Wild Salmon should be ignored.
You seem to agree that some Fish Farms do kill some Wild Salmon.
The only thing that needs to be resolved is HOW MANY WILD SALMON ARE FISH FARMS KILLING ANNUALLY!!
 
Seriously? You haven't seen any proof? C'mon man, post after post contained research studies that show proof. Even your brothers from Norway have studies that show proof, they know open pen is not a good thing.

You guys actually remind me of Gary Bettman whenever he sits at the podium and says, 'no, the NHL has not seen any proof that multiple concussions is bad for the brain and causing problems for x players'. Right after 30 concussion studies show it's not a good thing and there are problems. He just looks plain silly. Much the same as here. Lol
But I'm not asking for proof......
I'm asking how much fish farms offend... They say they do rockdog, I'm just asking how much? It a simple question thats not going to get answered. It puts them in a corner and can be used against them.
If you where to study seal predation in the SOG and came out and said, we need to control seals as they are eating the salmon. The first question is, well before we kill innocent animals. How many are they killing?
This is all I'm asking..... No answers
 

I listened to over 10 minutes on this link and never got to anything related to Fish Farms???
I did however catch two very good conversations on CFAX...
Terry Moore hosted two morning shows on CFAX this week, one on Wednesday with Alexandra Morton and on Thursday with Karen Wristen executive director of Living Oceans. Needless to say both shows brought out a lot of science and studies regarding the harm Fish Farms are doing to our Wild Salmon.
Some might say his two guests are spreaders of false news others however most found it very informative!!
On a similar note….The late and well respected radio host Rafe Mair was also against Fish Farms from the beginning
“He believed implicitly that fish farms were not right. They were not good for the public, they were not good for the environment, and they were not good for the fishing industry itself"
 
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Eric Taylor is a zoology professor at UBC and chairman of the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada. Ian Lindsay / Vancouver Sun

The eight Fraser River sockeye spawning populations now assessed as endangered may never be officially protected by the federal government.

The Cultus Lake sockeye run was deemed endangered in 2003 by a committee of independent scientists, but has still not been officially added to the list of endangered species under the federal Species at Risk Act (SARA).

“In practice, most marine fishes that are (commercially) exploited are never listed under SARA, even though many of them are highly endangered,” said Eric Taylor, chairman of the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, which advises the federal government.

That is bad news for the Fraser River sockeye.

Eight of the 24 distinct sockeye populations that spawn in the Fraser and its tributaries are now regarded as “endangered” by the committee. Two others are “threatened” and five more are of “special concern”.

But the federal environment minister is under no obligation to protect them.

If the Fraser sockeye — even just the endangered populations — are officially protected under SARA, it becomes illegal to “kill, harm, harass, capture or take an individual” of the species, which would effectively close all Fraser sockeye fisheries until the populations recover, said Taylor, who is a professor of zoology at the University of B.C.

The problem is that the spawning populations deemed endangered enter the river mixed with other commercially sustainable runs.

Federal governments have long exploited a “loophole” in the law that allows the environment minister to avoid officially recognizing species as endangered, by entering an open-ended period of consultation, he said.

In response to a private member’s bill tabled by South Okanagan-West Kootenay MP Dick Cannings, Environment Minister Catherine McKenna has promised to decide whether or not to list species under SARA within nine months of receiving the committee’s recommendations. They will be officially delivered next October.

However, in the case of the Fraser sockeye, the answer could well be no, said Taylor.

“However, just because a species isn’t listed in SARA doesn’t mean good things can’t happen,” he said. “DFO can get involved well before the minister’s decision, and as we saw last year, there was no sockeye fishery at all.”

According to the committee, Fraser sockeye are being harmed by a combination of rising water temperatures — which exhaust the fish as they swim upstream — the pressure of commercial, recreational and First Nations fisheries, and other environmental factors.

The eight populations identified by the committee have experienced significant declines in numbers over three or more generations, said Taylor.

Meanwhile, a local study published this week in the online journal PLOS One found that 95 per cent of farmed salmon purchased in B.C. supermarkets tested positive for the piscine reovirus (PRV).

According to the authors, PRV was also detected in “37 to 45 per cent of wild salmon from regions highly exposed to salmon farms and five per cent of wild salmon from the regions furthest from salmon farms.”

The study — co-authored by fish farm opponent and independent biologist Alexandra Morton — concludes “that PRV transfer is occurring from farmed Atlantic salmon to wild Pacific salmon, that infection in farmed salmon may be influencing infection rates in wild salmon, and that this may pose a risk of reduced fitness in wild salmon impacting their survival and reproduction.”

The committee doesn’t consider the effect of net-pen fish farms a “smoking gun” in the decline of the sockeye.

“The evidence that fish farms are a major driver is not clear,” said Taylor. “There is something going on in the ocean, but the greatest decline in survival comes after the fish get … past Vancouver Island.”

Fisheries and Oceans Canada was not able to respond to questions on Thursday.
 
One thing to remember about Harrrison River stocks is that they have also been experiencing substantial pre spawning mortalities in recent years. Harrison fish also occasionally enter the river early and spend up to 6 weeks holding beneath the thermocline in cooler water in Harrison Lake. before dropping back to the river to spawn.
GREAT! conversation about temps. PRv gets activated as the temps rise - data from a number of researchers. I'd like to see a study looking at this piece of emerging science....
 
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“The evidence that fish farms are a major driver is not clear,” said Taylor. “There is something going on in the ocean, but the greatest decline in survival comes after the fish get … past Vancouver Island.”
Fisheries and Oceans Canada was not able to respond to questions on Thursday.

Could it be that these fish pickup dangerous numbers of Sea Lice and or the PRV virus on their way by the Fish Farms and develop the HSMI virus after they "past Vancouver Island." and become easy prey for predators?
 
The committee doesn’t consider the effect of net-pen fish farms a “smoking gun” in the decline of the sockeye.

“The evidence that fish farms are a major driver is not clear,” said Taylor. “There is something going on in the ocean, but the greatest decline in survival comes after the fish get … past Vancouver Island
 
GREAT! conversation about temps. PRv gets activated as the temps rise - data from a number of researchers. I'd like to see a study looking at this piece of emerging science....
Certain sockeye stocks ( Cultus, Harrison, Chilliwack, and I'm sure others) have been doing this sanctuary beneath the thermocline in lakes for as long as Fraser sockeye have been studied ... before salmon farms. Perhaps this is a strategic method of combating Parvicapsula and other parasites, as well as an endemic strain of PRV.
 
Endemic - now, you mean - Closely related to the NORWEGIAN strain. Gee wonder how a Norwegian-based strain ended-up appearing in BC? Hmmmmm....
 
Endemic - now, you mean - Closely related to the NORWEGIAN strain. Gee wonder how a Norwegian-based strain ended-up appearing in BC? Hmmmmm....


en·dem·ic

adjective
1. (of a disease or condition) regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.
"areas where malaria is endemic"
2. (of a plant or animal) native or restricted to a certain country or area
 
There are no fish farms near the Cowichan.... not from around here eh.

If Foggedin, Said Sockeye or Chum I might agree but Chinook, We know Chinook can spend their whole life in the SOG. Winter feeders man!

Are we really spitting hairs now? this is too far away? damn all these companies have to do is move them down the the good old USA and problem solved!

upload_2017-12-15_10-3-4.png
 
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