Fish Farm trouble in BC.
- Thread starter Chuck
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It was my understanding it was the Privy Council that "muzzled" her, not DFO. I stand corrected if wrong.
Yes - You would think that the Privy Council has quite a bit on it's agenda - big stuff - GDP, trade deals - interfering in the running of departments on behalf of what the Prime Minister's Office - which included advisors like Mike Duffy who had Vivian Krause on his rolladex.
Maybe instead or in addition - it was a trade lawyer who was hired on behalf of the open net-cage industry who managed to get hold of a deputy minister in CFIA/AgriCan who went to the Privy Council - maybe manila envelopes have their own voice. Guess we will never really know - but it does seem strange that the Privy Council was interested in Kristi's evidence - don't you think?
BUT - No trade implications to any of this anyways - if ISAv or another reportable disease was found in BC - the industry could still sell it's product in any market - right???
Maybe instead or in addition - it was a trade lawyer who was hired on behalf of the open net-cage industry who managed to get hold of a deputy minister in CFIA/AgriCan who went to the Privy Council - maybe manila envelopes have their own voice. Guess we will never really know - but it does seem strange that the Privy Council was interested in Kristi's evidence - don't you think?
BUT - No trade implications to any of this anyways - if ISAv or another reportable disease was found in BC - the industry could still sell it's product in any market - right???
'...The most combative exchanges occurred during testimony by Kristina Miller, the head of molecular genetics for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans laboratory at Nanaimo, on Vancouver Island. While previous reports of the virus had surfaced from sources outside the Canadian government, only to have Canadian officials question them, Dr. Miller testified that she also had received positive results when she tested for the virus, known as I.S.A. She said that when she reported her work to a superior last month, she was asked why she had conducted it at all.
“Nobody in the department talked to me about disease or I.S.A. after that,” Dr. Miller testified. At one point, she said she was frustrated at what she called “flippant dismissal of pathogens” that could be harmful."
“Nobody in the department talked to me about disease or I.S.A. after that,” Dr. Miller testified. At one point, she said she was frustrated at what she called “flippant dismissal of pathogens” that could be harmful."
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bigdogeh
Well-Known Member
Think what you want Dave,
You usually do. And so do I.
Pretty sure there's lots of blame to go around right from the Prime Minister at the time, down to the few at the very top of DFO. And prob farther down than that. Sounds like it was a pretty toxic environment to have to work in for her from what I've read and seen from testimony and tapes from the cohen commission and elsewhere. But if you want to blame it all on the Privy Council and nothing more, have at er... Easy scapegoat when it looks like there is more than enough blame to go around in all Governmental departments and at all levels. Glad she had the cahuna's to stick around.
We can blame it on the Privy Council, Harpers policies and let him take the blame, or even the Crown, if it makes you feel better, but in my mind, those that were around him (Harper), and under him and helped carry out the wishes and enforce them are just as much to blame and just as complicit.
You help a murderer commit murder, you're just as guilty as the murderer imo. At least in the world I live in...
Thxs for your posts AA,
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https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/FOPO/meeting-38/evidence
Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders (Head of Molecular Genetics, Pacific Biological Station, Department of Fisheries and Oceans):
"When I started down this path of research in 2012, I was told by an upper manager, who's no longer with the department, that it was irresponsible to ask research questions that could potentially result in negative economic ramifications on an industry if we did not already know the answer. "
"Since 2015 there have been great inroads undertaken by the department to move to a more science evidence-based approach to policy development. I wholeheartedly applaud these efforts, but it can be difficult when the department continues to carry a dual role as a regulator and an advocate. At a working level, I remain concerned that there is continued reluctance by scientists, veterinarians, most of whom have strong ties to the industry, and managers to ask questions and undertake research that might not turn out favourably for the industry. The level of DFO consultation with industry remains very high. While this can be a good thing, in my view when we are addressing risk assessments, regulators and researchers need to have objective independence from industry."
"At present, the department relies heavily on information that the industry provides to determine, for example, what pathogens and diseases to focus risk assessments on. There are not, to date, any provisions to enable scientists to conduct risk assessments to sample fish on farms unless the industry agrees to provide them."
Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders (Head of Molecular Genetics, Pacific Biological Station, Department of Fisheries and Oceans):
"When I started down this path of research in 2012, I was told by an upper manager, who's no longer with the department, that it was irresponsible to ask research questions that could potentially result in negative economic ramifications on an industry if we did not already know the answer. "
"Since 2015 there have been great inroads undertaken by the department to move to a more science evidence-based approach to policy development. I wholeheartedly applaud these efforts, but it can be difficult when the department continues to carry a dual role as a regulator and an advocate. At a working level, I remain concerned that there is continued reluctance by scientists, veterinarians, most of whom have strong ties to the industry, and managers to ask questions and undertake research that might not turn out favourably for the industry. The level of DFO consultation with industry remains very high. While this can be a good thing, in my view when we are addressing risk assessments, regulators and researchers need to have objective independence from industry."
"At present, the department relies heavily on information that the industry provides to determine, for example, what pathogens and diseases to focus risk assessments on. There are not, to date, any provisions to enable scientists to conduct risk assessments to sample fish on farms unless the industry agrees to provide them."
Clint r
Well-Known Member
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Can you guys link me some stuff from the last 5 years that shows DFO advocating for fish farms?
NVM I found it in the liberal platform, I guess this is sorta what they mean
Growing the agrifood and seafood sectors on Vancouver Island
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Growing the agrifood and seafood sectors on Vancouver Island
Creating jobs and opportunities on Vancouver Island
https://www.bcliberals.com/platform/growing-b-c-s-agrifood-seafood-sectors/
NVM I found it in the liberal platform, I guess this is sorta what they mean
Growing the agrifood and seafood sectors on Vancouver Island
6 Likes
Growing the agrifood and seafood sectors on Vancouver Island
Creating jobs and opportunities on Vancouver Island
https://www.bcliberals.com/platform/growing-b-c-s-agrifood-seafood-sectors/
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cuttlefish
Well-Known Member
A couple of clarifications, Wildmanyeah.
1. Finn Donnelly is a Member of Parliament of which the Federal Liberals (think Justin Trudeau) currently hold a majority governmemt and not a Member of the BC Legislative Assembly of which the Provincial NDP (think John Horgan) currently is governing through an agreement with the BC Green Party.
2. DFO is a federal ministry over which the BC Liberal Party (think Christy Clark and Rich Coleman) has little sway.
I don't know why you impose the five year time limit but, nonetheless, the Cohen Commission Report and Recommendations were released in 2012. Please see Cohen's recommendation #3.
1. Finn Donnelly is a Member of Parliament of which the Federal Liberals (think Justin Trudeau) currently hold a majority governmemt and not a Member of the BC Legislative Assembly of which the Provincial NDP (think John Horgan) currently is governing through an agreement with the BC Green Party.
2. DFO is a federal ministry over which the BC Liberal Party (think Christy Clark and Rich Coleman) has little sway.
I don't know why you impose the five year time limit but, nonetheless, the Cohen Commission Report and Recommendations were released in 2012. Please see Cohen's recommendation #3.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
yes i got confused with Finn Donelly. However our new NDP government does have a lot of sway over FF. Christy and Harpers were obviously aligned they wanted to push their economic agenda at all costs. environmental regulation bedamed! To be fair that is what the people wanted after the 2009 financial crisis. We now live in a total different time. Sunny ways remember?
I imposed a 5 year because i think it is obvious what Harpers thought is with DFO (dismantling and firing biologists) and the economic conditions in canada and BC have vastly improved since 2009. I am well aware of the Cohen report and his recommendations and the 37 million he gladly took from DFO's budget to make those recommendations.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Yup, Donnelly is a Federal NDP member and although the parties are closely aligned, he is not part of the Provincial NDP government.
A bit more addition to the experienced posts above:
1/ - the BC Provincial Ministry of Agriculture - and specifically the Provincial Fish Vets office (Gary Marty) within that department do have regulatory jurisdiction into how diseases are reported (or NOT) through the information pipeline leading to CFIA/DFO,
2/ The Province of BC also regulates tenure approvals - of all kinds - including FF tenures through the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations (FLNR) FrontCounter BC online tool process, and
3/ The province licences the processing plants, as well.
1/ - the BC Provincial Ministry of Agriculture - and specifically the Provincial Fish Vets office (Gary Marty) within that department do have regulatory jurisdiction into how diseases are reported (or NOT) through the information pipeline leading to CFIA/DFO,
2/ The Province of BC also regulates tenure approvals - of all kinds - including FF tenures through the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations (FLNR) FrontCounter BC online tool process, and
3/ The province licences the processing plants, as well.
Here is a bit more about yesterday's revelation by Morton et al
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/BCSFA_MortonPRvPaper_Release_DEC14-2017.pdf
of course it's written by the bad guys so must be wrong.
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/BCSFA_MortonPRvPaper_Release_DEC14-2017.pdf
of course it's written by the bad guys so must be wrong.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
More on it but again by the government or the "swamp" as trump puts it.
"The National Reference Laboratory has completed Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) testing, a sensitive but preliminary test, that has shown no presence of ISA in the samples provided; this is the same process that was reportedly used in the original claims of positive test results by individual sources. Officials provided information on the extensive actions underway by the Government of Canada to investigate claims about the presence of the disease, the timeline of test results, and the proper, science-based requirements for testing. Officials also indicated that there will be investigations into the collection, handling, transportation and storage of samples by other sources that led to the original claims.
Minister Ashfield said: "It has been a difficult few weeks for the fishing industry in British Columbia, and across the country, while waiting for these preliminary test results to come back. Because some have chosen to draw conclusions based on unconfirmed information, this has resulted in British Columbia's fishing industry and Canada's reputation being put at risk needlessly."
"Our government takes the health of our fisheries very seriously. We have taken appropriate and immediate action to follow up on the allegations of the presence of ISA in BC waters. We can now confirm that, preliminary analysis, using proper and internationally recognized procedures, has found that none of the samples has tested positive for ISA. In recent years, over 5000 fresh, properly stored and processed salmon have been tested by the BC government and Fisheries and Oceans Canada and there has never been a confirmed case of ISA in British Columbia salmon. An active, science-based sampling program continues for both farmed and wild salmon."
https://news.gov.bc.ca/stories/test-results-indicate-no-confirmed-cases-of-isa
"The National Reference Laboratory has completed Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) testing, a sensitive but preliminary test, that has shown no presence of ISA in the samples provided; this is the same process that was reportedly used in the original claims of positive test results by individual sources. Officials provided information on the extensive actions underway by the Government of Canada to investigate claims about the presence of the disease, the timeline of test results, and the proper, science-based requirements for testing. Officials also indicated that there will be investigations into the collection, handling, transportation and storage of samples by other sources that led to the original claims.
Minister Ashfield said: "It has been a difficult few weeks for the fishing industry in British Columbia, and across the country, while waiting for these preliminary test results to come back. Because some have chosen to draw conclusions based on unconfirmed information, this has resulted in British Columbia's fishing industry and Canada's reputation being put at risk needlessly."
"Our government takes the health of our fisheries very seriously. We have taken appropriate and immediate action to follow up on the allegations of the presence of ISA in BC waters. We can now confirm that, preliminary analysis, using proper and internationally recognized procedures, has found that none of the samples has tested positive for ISA. In recent years, over 5000 fresh, properly stored and processed salmon have been tested by the BC government and Fisheries and Oceans Canada and there has never been a confirmed case of ISA in British Columbia salmon. An active, science-based sampling program continues for both farmed and wild salmon."
https://news.gov.bc.ca/stories/test-results-indicate-no-confirmed-cases-of-isa
Ya - the 2011 "nothing to see here folks" script by our friendly Communications department in DFO/CFIA. Thanks for sharing that bit of trivia, WMY! Flashback Thursday - instead of Friday. You're early!
PS - don't forget the "we are winning the PR war" piece by Joseph Beres - they are a commemorative match set edition!
https://www.desmog.ca/2013/07/04/cf...nowned-canadian-oie-research-lab-loses-battle
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/winning-salmon-pr-war-cohen-commission-gillis/
PS - don't forget the "we are winning the PR war" piece by Joseph Beres - they are a commemorative match set edition!
https://www.desmog.ca/2013/07/04/cf...nowned-canadian-oie-research-lab-loses-battle
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/winning-salmon-pr-war-cohen-commission-gillis/
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Yes we know you agenda Anti government, anti fishing, anti hatchery! leave the wild salmon alone, Bring a moratorium to all BC salmon fishing
Thanks for making that so clear
BTW
Key Facts
• 2017 US research (Gustafson et al. in press), suggests that 3.4% of the wild Salmonid population (returning results sampled in Washington and Alaska) are infected with PRv. Coho and Chinook are the most frequent carriers.
• In BC, prevalence of PRv in wild salmonids is between 0 – 20% (Miller et al., 2014 and Marty et al., 2015. • Research conducted by Garver et al shows that In fitness tests, PRv did not impact the maximum oxygen carrying capacity, or affect the ability for oxygen to bind to red blood cells, in Atlantic or sockeye salmon
• Causal relationship between PRV and HSMI – Between 2010 and 2016 PRv became associated with HSMI, and in 2017, it was shown to cause HSMI in Norway. This could not be replicated with the BC strain in a laboratory setting.
• PRv is common amongst the populations of salmon on farms in B.C, this has been well known for some time and is the subject of a very active field of research. To date, it is very rare to see PRv associated with any sickness of salmon on farms here.
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fogged in
Well-Known Member
Geeeez Wildmanyeah
From your posts it's hard to believe that you really do feel Open Net-Pen Fish Farms should be moved out of our ocean and put on dry land as you said just yesterday!
wildmanyeah Active Member ….said yesterday
How am I a FF supporter? I have already made public multiple times that I think all FF should be land based. I don't know why you guys insist on calling me out personally when I present facts.
From your posts it's hard to believe that you really do feel Open Net-Pen Fish Farms should be moved out of our ocean and put on dry land as you said just yesterday!
wildmanyeah Active Member ….said yesterday
How am I a FF supporter? I have already made public multiple times that I think all FF should be land based. I don't know why you guys insist on calling me out personally when I present facts.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
MY personal believe that fish farms should be on land is based upon an over abundance of caution not on scientific fact.
I personally believe that the government should close open net sea based fish farms and compensate them by building the infrastructure for land based farms and lease it back to the company.
Just because I believe that they should be land based does not mean i am not a rational human being. IF the PSF came out tomorrow with a study linking fish farms to a decline in wild salmon populations I would be writing the government demanding them to go land based farms.
As of right now best of the evidence against fish farms comes from Alizandra Mortan and her NGO watershed watch.
https://www.watershed-watch.org/issues/
"Funding: This work was supported by NSERC Discovery Grant, T and K Allard, E Borak, D and V Bradshaw, Y Chouinard, J Corbett, Eden Conservation Trust, S Haney, The Jaymac Foundation, Patagonia, R North, B. Wheeler, The Tides Foundation, The Vancouver Foundation, Vancity Credit Union and many smaller donors."
Look at the funding for the recent paper and where the money leads. http://www.patagonia.com/the-activist-company.html
They have complete bios that would like to see a complete ban on salmon fishing.
These groups wont stop at Fish Farms, Recreation Fishing, hatcheries ext its all on their agenda....
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