Possession limits
- Thread starter oilslick
- Start date
searun
Well-Known Member
The impression I walked away with following the SFAB meeting where the C&P guys announced they were working on mid season changes to the rules was there were concerns expressed with some people who were transporting fish for other buddies who stayed behind and continued fishing.
For instance I have seen a fellow from the US (btw, Canadians do this also) who was fishing basically every day. When I pointed him out to the C&P boys they boarded his boat and later told me he was totally legit. His licenses read full 2 day limits, followed by a line drawn saying fish transported home by friend, then he was good to go again!!! So, the rule was designed so that guys like this could not simply stay and fish for days on end catching their limits daily and having buddies transport fish home. BTW, that guy was also guiding IMO, but I could not prove it. His operation was simple, have guys come up and fish for 2 to 3 days, transport his fish home with them and he was golden to continue. Fished all season long doing this.
Thus the rule change....I just would have liked to see some input from the rec sector so we could perhaps have input and better ideas on how to solve some of these issues in order to create a win/win situation.
For instance, it would be dead easy to create a guide or lodge catch book where you record the daily catch of your guests onto a log book with 2 part forms. The carbon copy (pink slip) could be a transportation record/permit that the guest could use to transport their catch home by what ever method they chose. The guide or lodge would be responsible to keep records and accountability for any issues. The bonus for DFO is they would get way more catch information in whatever form and detail they needed and the guides and lodges would be happy to comply because their guests would be able to transport catch home even if it was vac packed etc.
That is just one simple idea, I'm sure there would be a ton more if we got a group together and put our thinking caps on. Consultation is always going to produce a better set of solutions and builds improved understanding of the challenges faced by both sides (Rec fishermen and DFO enforcement).
my 25 cents....
For instance I have seen a fellow from the US (btw, Canadians do this also) who was fishing basically every day. When I pointed him out to the C&P boys they boarded his boat and later told me he was totally legit. His licenses read full 2 day limits, followed by a line drawn saying fish transported home by friend, then he was good to go again!!! So, the rule was designed so that guys like this could not simply stay and fish for days on end catching their limits daily and having buddies transport fish home. BTW, that guy was also guiding IMO, but I could not prove it. His operation was simple, have guys come up and fish for 2 to 3 days, transport his fish home with them and he was golden to continue. Fished all season long doing this.
Thus the rule change....I just would have liked to see some input from the rec sector so we could perhaps have input and better ideas on how to solve some of these issues in order to create a win/win situation.
For instance, it would be dead easy to create a guide or lodge catch book where you record the daily catch of your guests onto a log book with 2 part forms. The carbon copy (pink slip) could be a transportation record/permit that the guest could use to transport their catch home by what ever method they chose. The guide or lodge would be responsible to keep records and accountability for any issues. The bonus for DFO is they would get way more catch information in whatever form and detail they needed and the guides and lodges would be happy to comply because their guests would be able to transport catch home even if it was vac packed etc.
That is just one simple idea, I'm sure there would be a ton more if we got a group together and put our thinking caps on. Consultation is always going to produce a better set of solutions and builds improved understanding of the challenges faced by both sides (Rec fishermen and DFO enforcement).
my 25 cents....
So if a guy is willing to spend the time and money to stay at a resort on the Island for 2 weeks.
All the time supporting local businesses.
Why shouldn't he be able to send a limit home half way thru his trip and fish for a second limit?
With the cost of ferries and fuel many people wont bother to come over for a 4 day trip.
Locals can fish every day until they get their annual limit of Chinooks and Halis and that is legal.
Rules like this will simply discourage passionate anglers from doing what they love and eventually it will hurt the resort and marina owners.
We are not transporting crack here these are fish!
All the time supporting local businesses.
Why shouldn't he be able to send a limit home half way thru his trip and fish for a second limit?
With the cost of ferries and fuel many people wont bother to come over for a 4 day trip.
Locals can fish every day until they get their annual limit of Chinooks and Halis and that is legal.
Rules like this will simply discourage passionate anglers from doing what they love and eventually it will hurt the resort and marina owners.
We are not transporting crack here these are fish!
searun
Well-Known Member
I think the flip side of that issue is DFO wants to avoid anyone going hog wild like they did in the old days when you could can fish to your hearts content and ship the cases home. That led to a mini commercial operation in the old days, and we don't want to go back there. Maybe there is some way to go to a formal transportation log like I was suggesting where you have to complete a log before you can go out fishing again. Might have to take your fish to a certified processing operation that records the catch officially with some kind of maximum limit. As suggested, I'm sure if we got a group together to brainstorm ideas we could come up with far better solutions than my dumb idea.
Perhaps a person could transport their own limit and the possession limit of one other angler.
This would work for most of the people I know who do the transport shuffle (and there are a lot).
This new rule will definitely affect bookings at many of the campsite / resort / marinas on the Island.
Many of them have regular long term customers who love to fish and are only interested in maybe 2 possession limits in a season.
A lot of these folks are seniors and could not afford to make multiple trips in a year.
Most would just take their money home once they had their limit or not bother coming at all.
Either way the Island economy looses.
This would work for most of the people I know who do the transport shuffle (and there are a lot).
This new rule will definitely affect bookings at many of the campsite / resort / marinas on the Island.
Many of them have regular long term customers who love to fish and are only interested in maybe 2 possession limits in a season.
A lot of these folks are seniors and could not afford to make multiple trips in a year.
Most would just take their money home once they had their limit or not bother coming at all.
Either way the Island economy looses.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Isn't the same true for locals on interior lakes? Do they even have an annual possession limit? For years I've fished rainbows in the interior and because of the possession limits happily practised a lot of catch and release. I always thought it was more about fishing than filling the freezer.
Big Green Machine
Well-Known Member
Some have monthly and annual limits, as stated in the regional section but of course all have daily quotas and possession limits
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
The refrain that it's supposed to be about the sport, not filling the freezer always comes up in these discussions, but it misses a key point that I think many of us have an issue with - that being that two boats can fish side by side day after day and one can kill limit after limit, and often do, while the other can't based solely on their house address. It basically sets up a scenario where there are two sets of rules, and the problem exists in both our salt water and fresh water fisheries.
I don't buy the various conservation arguments that have been floated, either, as the regulators have abundant tools at their disposal to limit the total harvest by species, stock, area, etc - open and closed times, slot limits, daily limits, monthly limits, annual limits, etc, etc. Further, if enforcement staff are looking to simplify their jobs, eliminating what is essentially two sets of rules depending on your address and instead using a combination of seasonal openings and various bag limits by area, month and year would simplify their jobs - pretty easy to check a license and see if the fish match the recorded dates and locations and fall within the openings and limits.
So much easier to check active fishers as well because, lets all be honest, their is no practical way to check and enforce even a small portion of sport caught fish being transported so it's an ineffective way to manage harvest regardless of the regulations. From personal experience, I've been checked dozens of times on the water, at the dock, on the river, etc over all the years I've been fishing but I have never once been checked transporting fish. I'd be willing to bet the same goes for everyone here - I.e they've been checked dozens of times while fishing or just after for every time they've been checked simply transporting a possession limit, if at all.
Past time to modernize this regulation and ensure there is a single rule that applies to all recreational anglers. As Searun has said many times, this would be an easy task for a small group with knowledge and experience from all sides of the fishery and regs to tackle and resolve.
Ukee
I don't buy the various conservation arguments that have been floated, either, as the regulators have abundant tools at their disposal to limit the total harvest by species, stock, area, etc - open and closed times, slot limits, daily limits, monthly limits, annual limits, etc, etc. Further, if enforcement staff are looking to simplify their jobs, eliminating what is essentially two sets of rules depending on your address and instead using a combination of seasonal openings and various bag limits by area, month and year would simplify their jobs - pretty easy to check a license and see if the fish match the recorded dates and locations and fall within the openings and limits.
So much easier to check active fishers as well because, lets all be honest, their is no practical way to check and enforce even a small portion of sport caught fish being transported so it's an ineffective way to manage harvest regardless of the regulations. From personal experience, I've been checked dozens of times on the water, at the dock, on the river, etc over all the years I've been fishing but I have never once been checked transporting fish. I'd be willing to bet the same goes for everyone here - I.e they've been checked dozens of times while fishing or just after for every time they've been checked simply transporting a possession limit, if at all.
Past time to modernize this regulation and ensure there is a single rule that applies to all recreational anglers. As Searun has said many times, this would be an easy task for a small group with knowledge and experience from all sides of the fishery and regs to tackle and resolve.
Ukee
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
Already annual limits on chinook and halibut. If other species, stocks or areas need reduced harvest due to conservation/abundance concerns you can implement many of the rules all ready being implemented in many areas like the slot restrictions in Area 19, monthly limits we see on many rivers, closed seasons we see in many sub-areas, etc, etc, etc. The regulatory tool box is already full of ways to meaningfully control harvest rate or total harvest in a way that is equitable to all tax paying, license buying rec anglers, regardless of what their address happens to be.
Ukee
Ukee
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I can see that working if the locals could accept that the annual limits for them would have to be slashed to offset the increased visitor catches. It's simple math. You would also likely need to impose a lot more and more restrictive regs to ensure the stock is protected. Maybe slash daily limits during the high season? This is all based on a finite stock and the assumption that if more fish are caught,fewer are left. I honestly think as it is you can take home a good number of fish, but am open to a suggestion for what is fair?
I disagree with any sportfisher who thinks he's somehow going to get his moneys worth of meat by fishing. Once again,do the math it's cheaper at the super market
I disagree with any sportfisher who thinks he's somehow going to get his moneys worth of meat by fishing. Once again,do the math it's cheaper at the super market
oilslick
Active Member
Nice reply Ukee and I 100% agree on your comments, one day DFO will get it right, unfortunetly its not this year. Everyone needs to voice their displeasure with the regs so they can make it equal for everyone. Seems like the BCWF have it right when it comes to hunting, it's fair and equal for everyone.
Very good points here.
All these additional rules with virtually no enforcement is a poor way to manage one of the best sport fisheries in the world.
I think there is a lot more thought put into these issues here on this site than at the DFO table.
Most comments have been intelligent and positive.
Swiggy
Active Member
Cheaters are going to cheat no matter what. We are allowed an annual limit of Halibut of 6. Why does there need to be an additional daily and possession limit. I get out once a year for halibut being from the lower mainland and give the guides in Victoria some business in the Spring. Why do I have to pay for multiple days if my annual limit is 6? If I can catch my annual limit in a day good on me. If I go over than I am cheating. Go over the daily limit or possession limit and you are cheating. Makes no sense in this case.
These possession limits apply per person regardless of who caught the fish. An
individual may transport another person’s fish as long as the total quantity of
any and all species does not exceed an individual possession limit. Possession
limits may not be combined.
This ^ is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. I booked a trip to take my niece and nephews out on a charter next month. Afterwords, my sister and BIL were going to take them camping on the island for a week. According to this, they must release all the fish they catch, or store them in their trailer for the week. I cannot bring them back with me! I can (sort of) understand closing the gifting to an unlicensed person from the dock loophole, but I should be able to transport as many legal limits, with proper documentation, as my vehicle will carry. I guess they could legally keep their fish until they rot and chuck them since they are no longer safe to eat. That is much better then letting me bring them back with me and dropping them off at my sister's house.
individual may transport another person’s fish as long as the total quantity of
any and all species does not exceed an individual possession limit. Possession
limits may not be combined.
This ^ is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. I booked a trip to take my niece and nephews out on a charter next month. Afterwords, my sister and BIL were going to take them camping on the island for a week. According to this, they must release all the fish they catch, or store them in their trailer for the week. I cannot bring them back with me! I can (sort of) understand closing the gifting to an unlicensed person from the dock loophole, but I should be able to transport as many legal limits, with proper documentation, as my vehicle will carry. I guess they could legally keep their fish until they rot and chuck them since they are no longer safe to eat. That is much better then letting me bring them back with me and dropping them off at my sister's house.
gamechanger
Well-Known Member
This change to the regulation came to be because of 2 things. 1st the BC Sport Fishing Regs say that no person shall be in possession of more fish than his/her possession limit, and the previous transportation guidelines contracted that reg, and you can't have that. Not sure the history on that but somehow that policy was created and worked for years and maybe this contradiction was under the radar until now...who knows, but besides that the reason that this has become an issue is reason #2...greed management, and you only have fellow rec fisherman to thank for that one. Ask fishery officers how many hundreds of times they have stopped people with more fish than they are allowed to have, and get some story of this is my friends fish, or my kids fish or whoevers fish, and I'm just transporting it for them, or it was a gift from a friend, or my uncle gave it to me and it was at his residence...some cases legitimate and others obviously not. And given the past circumstances fishery officers couldn't do anything about it. Well now they can. The regulations are plain and simple, you can only possess your possession limit. And if your caught with more than your possession limit you can be charged now. Does that mean that all fishery officers are going to charge everyone, everytime in every single circimstance, or do you think that means that now fishery officers have the ability to use their descretion and good judgement and be able to deal with the people who cheat the system and try to get out of it using loopholes. Who's to say??? I don't think I'm going to test it. But Fishery Officers are some of the most reasonable, sensible and competent people the Department has and they know whats what, and the good thing is that they can now do something about it. So before everyone starts pulling their hair out, think about the big picture and realize that no regulation is pefect for every situation. Limits are put in place as a management tool. Respect the limits and the resource and be happy you have a bountiful resource to harvest. If you want to optimize the amount of fish you get from the dollars you spend sell your boat and buy them from a hard working commercial fisherman.
BearCove
Crew Member
So, I give my 93 yr old grandmother some fish to drive back to Nanaimo with so her and my grandfather can enjoy it. They can no longer fish so this is the only way they can enjoy it.
Can you still gift fish?
Do they need licences if I gave it to them?
Since I brought it home to my residence and took the skin and stuff off of it and it is un-identifiable can they travel with it?
Do I need to have two different sets of fish now? One that I can travel with and one I can't because of the way I processed it?
These were the questions I was looking to have answered when I spoke with the unpleasant lady friday afternoon when she was heading home at 3:45.
Cheers,
Can you still gift fish?
Do they need licences if I gave it to them?
Since I brought it home to my residence and took the skin and stuff off of it and it is un-identifiable can they travel with it?
Do I need to have two different sets of fish now? One that I can travel with and one I can't because of the way I processed it?
These were the questions I was looking to have answered when I spoke with the unpleasant lady friday afternoon when she was heading home at 3:45.
Cheers,
Walter Quinlan
New Member
Probably matters how many grandmothers you have, and how many times are you willing to state you have given salmon to your "grandparents", because they can't fish anymore.
As some of the posters have stated, what you are asking, is one of the reasons for this reg. Since it looks like you are a guide, do you not get to see some COs during your working hours???? Probably pretty easy to give them your "scenario" and see what they have to say.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
That is why there is a SFAB. Take your thoughts to your local group and run a motion through to see if the rest of the group agrees.
If so, then put it to DFO.
If so, then put it to DFO.
rovingfisherman
Active Member
Since the fish are coming from your place of residence then the regs on transport or any other reg does not apply. That's it.... give you grandmother your lawyers number to hand to anyone that questions her.
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