alex morton

[GLG]

We can banter on this subject of sea lice all day but maybe we should let the principle actors do it and just read what was said.
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON
SUSTAINABLE AQUACULTURE
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2006

K. Brooks , D. Stucchi , R. Beamish, S. Jones, M. Krkošek, R. Routledge, A. Morton

http://www.leg.bc.ca/cmt/38thparl/session-2/aquaculture/hansard/W61205a.htm

Granted this was back in 2006 and we have seen changes in the way that "slice" is used today.
We seem to have a pest control management solution like Brooks was cheering for.
If I'm not mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong be when this was all said and done the final analysis was put the farms in closed containment system. If some of you read carefully you will see that CK has links to the papers that were brought forth in this debate. Most studies from "Brooks" were discredited because he jigged the parameters to get the results he was looking for. Case in point using 4 gram and larger fry when in the wild the fry are in the 2 gram size. Nice one but you got called out when challenged. For those that don't read the link Brooks is a paid consultant of the fish feedlot crowd.

So here we are in 2013 and not much has changed... well that might not be true because we have less fish feedlots up there and a new program to "slice" the ones that remain so the wild fry/smolts are better protected.
Sure hope it is enough because the fry/smolts have run the "gauntlet of death" to get to the open water. We will see when they return in a few years.

 

[ziggy]

You guys are sad sorry. I stood by the remarks I made discrediting a scientist, and discrediting credentials around when you don't have any is laughable in my opinion. Go on and keep talking and backing your pro-buddies. Never said you couldn't have on opinion. But hacking down someone on our forum who has made the sacrifice for years of school, countless publications etc is just plain wrong. I am not talking about disagreeing I am talking about challenging someone's professional status.

That is wrong in my opinion. Wow green machine I sure lost a lot of respect for you after reading the hack...Good luck....

You've hit the nail on the head. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the experts posted their credentials on here. I find the debate interesting, but often wonder if the experts really are experts, or lay persons like the rest of us

 

[reelfast]

so it seems that SLICE is still apart of the management of these net pens. the next question is who certifies the product is SLICE free before they ship??

 

[Charlie]

so it seems that SLICE is still apart of the management of these net pens. the next question is who certifies the product is SLICE free before they ship??

Are you ready for this: The beloved "open net pen" industry is required to follow that 68 day restriction.

No Canadian government checks - No one, nada, zip! Want to know the really scary part. The use of SLICE is not approved for aquaculture use and if found in Chile imported Atlantic salmon, which is tested by the U.S., it would be rejected. The U.S. has a trade agreement that requires Canada to comply with U.S. import laws. Knowing SLICE is commonly used in BC, and the government of Canada,doesn't even check, it seem logical the U.S. would at least spot check Canadian imports for SLICE residuals, and if found reject like Chile.

Are ready, the U.S. still relies on Canada, who doesn't check, and guess what neither does any agency in the U.S. - it is left up to all those outstanding open net pen feedlot operators!

 

[reelfast]

that's what I thought was going on Charlie. now add this to the mix, the USFDA has NEVER approved the use of SLICE on any product meant for human consumption.

I took the time to document this and forwarded it to our last state attorney general. I received a written response, on letter head, '...not my problem...'.

so I guess we need to start the ball rolling with our elected officials to ask the simple question why product for Chile is checked but not Canada.

as Alex has pointed out, it is the consumer who will decide the fate of the open net pen industry.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Are you ready for this: The beloved "open net pen" industry is required to follow that 68 day restriction.

No Canadian government checks - No one, nada, zip! Want to know the really scary part. The use of SLICE is not approved for aquaculture use and if found in Chile imported Atlantic salmon, which is tested by the U.S., it would be rejected. The U.S. has a trade agreement that requires Canada to comply with U.S. import laws. Knowing SLICE is commonly used in BC, and the government of Canada,doesn't even check, it seem logical the U.S. would at least spot check Canadian imports for SLICE residuals, and if found reject like Chile.

Are ready, the U.S. still relies on Canada, who doesn't check, and guess what neither does any agency in the U.S. - it is left up to all those outstanding open net pen feedlot operators!

Substance Name - Emamectin Benzoate

Marker Residue / Metabolite - N/A

Regulatory Use Status - Approved 1 (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/vet/legislation/pol/aquaculture_anim-eng.php)

Species - Salmonids

Tissue - Muscle

Action Level*: 0.1 AMRL
µg/g (ppm)

Action Level*: 100 AMRL
ng/g (ppb)

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/fi...ethods/eng/1348608971859/1348609209602?chap=7



SLICE

Emamectin Benzoate

02328216

Atlantic salmon

As an aid in the treatment of parasitic infestations caused by all parasitic stages (chalimus I- IV and adult) of the sea louse (Lepeophtheirus salmonis), on Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar).

No pre-slaughter withdrawal period is required when this drug product is used according to the label directions. To ensure tissue residues do not exceed the maximum residue limit, Atlantic salmon should not be treated more than once in the 60 days prior to the first fish being harvested for human consumption.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/vet/legislation/pol/aquaculture_anim-eng.php

"Our salmon are randomly tested by the Canada Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) for therapeutant residues and other environmental contaminants on a regular basis. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also randomly test product entering the USA. In addition, Mainstream Canada exceeds regulatory testing by conducting its own food safety testing protocols. All tests consistently demonstrate that residue and contaminants in our product fall far below CFIA and FDA safe levels."
http://www.mainstreamcanada.ca/products/nutrition-food-safety.php

 

[the fog ducker]

havent read anything on this thread , but had this emailed to me today
may be of some interest if not already posted here

thx j


Hello


I am very sorry to inform you that the World Organization of Animal Health (OIE), the political organization made up of 178 international animal health bureaucrats, has voted to remove the "reference lab" status from the lab I am using in Canada to research European salmon viruses. This was predicted by lawyer Greg McDade a year and half ago in the Cohen Commission. It was that obvious a course of action.


I find this appalling. I feel it is in the best interests of the people of the eastern North Pacific, that the research underway by the Kibenge lab be allowed to continue so that the findings are published in peer-reviewed journals and judged by scientists, not just bureaucrats. It is my view we have a limited window of opportunity to stop ISA virus from going epidemic here as it has elsewhere, including eastern Canada currently.


Unless people speak up now, I feel certain the heavy hand of government will suppress this work entirely. The lab is currently still operating, but I think it needs our support.


Please note the action items at the end of this blog and thank you to the First Nation communities that have already written to Canada and the OIE making it clear they have samples in the Kibenge lab that they expect to be fully processed and reported on.

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton


Alexandra Morton




l

 

[Charlie]

Substance Name - Emamectin Benzoate

Marker Residue / Metabolite - N/A

Regulatory Use Status - Approved 1 (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/vet/legislation/pol/aquaculture_anim-eng.php)

Species - Salmonids

Tissue - Muscle

Action Level*: 0.1 AMRL
µg/g (ppm)

Action Level*: 100 AMRL
ng/g (ppb)

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/fi...ethods/eng/1348608971859/1348609209602?chap=7



SLICE

Emamectin Benzoate

02328216

Atlantic salmon

As an aid in the treatment of parasitic infestations caused by all parasitic stages (chalimus I- IV and adult) of the sea louse (Lepeophtheirus salmonis), on Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar).

No pre-slaughter withdrawal period is required when this drug product is used according to the label directions. To ensure tissue residues do not exceed the maximum residue limit, Atlantic salmon should not be treated more than once in the 60 days prior to the first fish being harvested for human consumption.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/vet/legislation/pol/aquaculture_anim-eng.php

"Our salmon are randomly tested by the Canada Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) for therapeutant residues and other environmental contaminants on a regular basis. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also randomly test product entering the USA. In addition, Mainstream Canada exceeds regulatory testing by conducting its own food safety testing protocols. All tests consistently demonstrate that residue and contaminants in our product fall far below CFIA and FDA safe levels."
http://www.mainstreamcanada.ca/products/nutrition-food-safety.php

Why thank you CK. Would you mind sending me the last test results your feedlots had with that "randomly" by CFIA? Before doing that you might want to keep in mind exactly what happens when the comment " FDA safe levels" and "also randomly test product entering the USA" really means? Does that really say U.S. inspects anything? And here you just hit the nail on the head, "Mainstream Canada exceeds regulatory testing by conducting its own food safety testing protocols."

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Why thank you CK. Would you mind sending me the last test results your feedlots had with that "randomly" by CFIA? Before doing that you might want to keep in mind exactly what happens when the comment " FDA safe levels" and "also randomly test product entering the USA" really means? Does that really say U.S. inspects anything? And here you just hit the nail on the head, "Mainstream Canada exceeds regulatory testing by conducting its own food safety testing protocols."

Aside from the testing CFIA and the FDA conduct, we are also certified by a third party auditor for the ISO 22000 Food Safety Management System: http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=35466

That is what "exceeds regulatory testing" means.

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this one Charlie, it seems pretty obvious that any product going south in the volumes we deal with would be subject to scrutiny by regulators.

 

[Charlie]

Aside from the testing CFIA and the FDA conduct, we are also certified by a third party auditor for the ISO 22000 Food Safety Management System: http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=35466

That is what "exceeds regulatory testing" means.

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this one Charlie, it seems pretty obvious that any product going south in the volumes we deal with would be subject to scrutiny by regulators.

Actually it is quite easy... "Would you mind sending me the last test results your feedlots had with that "randomly" by CFIA? That is not to complicated is it?

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Actually it is quite easy... "Would you mind sending me the last test results your feedlots had with that "randomly" by CFIA? That is not to complicated is it?

Actually, you're right Charlie, it is quite easy - No.

I don't even know who you are...

 

[agentaqua]

having your product tested for slice residues in fillets by CFIA is quite a different test then testing for slice residues in sediments below salmon cages and testing for slice ingested by adjacent crustaceans - which is what the larger environmental concern is.

Did you test for slice in sediments and adjacent crustacens, CK?

Also the ISO certification is a certification based on improving your production standards like refrigeration and whether or not you have drip catch tanks below your diesel generator tank - it does NOT mean that your facility has limited impacts on the surrounding environment, or that you have done the background science to measure any impacts. That last post is called a "red herring", CK.

 

[Charlie]

Actually, you're right Charlie, it is quite easy - No.

I don't even know who you are...

And, based on your replies, YOU may never know!

having your product tested for slice residues in fillets by CFIA is quite a different test then testing for slice residues in sediments below salmon cages and testing for slice ingested by adjacent crustaceans - which is what the larger environmental concern is.

Did you test for slice in sediments and adjacent crustacens, CK?

Also the ISO certification is a certification based on improving your production standards like refrigeration and whether or not you have drip catch tanks below your diesel generator tank - it does NOT mean that your facility has limited impacts on the surrounding environment, or that you have done the background science to measure any impacts. That last post is called a "red herring", CK.

X2

 

[reelfast]

so CFIA does some testing???? where can a citizen obtain the results of those tests along with the testing protocol??

 

[ClayoquotKid]

having your product tested for slice residues in fillets by CFIA is quite a different test then testing for slice residues in sediments below salmon cages and testing for slice ingested by adjacent crustaceans - which is what the larger environmental concern is.

Did you test for slice in sediments and adjacent crustacens, CK?

Also the ISO certification is a certification based on improving your production standards like refrigeration and whether or not you have drip catch tanks below your diesel generator tank - it does NOT mean that your facility has limited impacts on the surrounding environment, or that you have done the background science to measure any impacts. That last post is called a "red herring", CK.

Here's a study done on prawns and SLICE: https://dspace.library.uvic.ca:8443/bitstream/handle/1828/4530/Park_Ashley_MSc_2013.pdf?sequence=1

Some interesting stuff in there, although residue was "measurable" under the farm, the prawns basically had to be force-fed it in order to attain enough of the substance to disrupt any of their systems.

I especially like the part where she thanks Volpe, Morton and Krkosek...

As for the "red herring" - I think we already know nothing the aquaculture industry does is ever good enough for you Aqua, so I really don't think your dismissal of ISO certifications means too much.

BTW we also have ISO certifications for 9001 (Quality Management), 14001 (Environmental Management), and 18001(Operational Health and Safety)

http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/02-Brochure-Insert-Certifications.pdf

 

[ClayoquotKid]

so CFIA does some testing???? where can a citizen obtain the results of those tests along with the testing protocol??

Have at 'er: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/fish-and-seafood/eng/1299799645255/1299799784160

 

[reelfast]

hum, odor, deterioration.....not a word about pesticide testing. did I miss it CK??

 

[ClayoquotKid]

hum, odor, deterioration.....not a word about pesticide testing. did I miss it CK??

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/fi.../eng/1348608971859/1348609209602?chap=7#s15c7

Appendix 1(B) - Therapeutant Use in Aquaculture - Questions and Answers

 

[agentaqua]

As for the "red herring" - I think we already know nothing the aquaculture industry does is ever good enough for you Aqua, so I really don't think your dismissal of ISO certifications means too much.

As lame as some of your responses go CK - this has to be one of the lamest. It's laughable in the childness of the response. Thanks for the links. I'll read-up.

 

[agentaqua]

As for the "red herring" - I think we already know nothing the aquaculture industry does is ever good enough for you Aqua, so I really don't think your dismissal of ISO certifications means too much.

BTW we also have ISO certifications for 9001 (Quality Management), 14001 (Environmental Management), and 18001(Operational Health and Safety)

http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/02-Brochure-Insert-Certifications.pdf

interesting that on your link promoting the ISO certification it states: "Mainstream Canada was the first company in Canada to meet the Aboriginal Aquaculture Association’s Aboriginal Principles for Sustainable Aquaculture (APSA) standard, acknowledging the company’s positive and mutually beneficial relationship with First Nations people in Clayoquot Sound."

BUT the Tla-o-qui-aht First Nation was looking at legal options to stop the approval of Mainstream's newest farm at Plover Point. How is that "mutually beneficial" to the Tla-o-qui-aht First Nation? Wonder whether they buy your BS about how great the ISO certification is...