N.S. fish farm rejected: risk to wild salmon.

[trendsetter]

You do understand I have the ability to track your IP address, also... right?

Don't want to stir the pot, just curious a to how you have this ability?

There is no peer-peer communication on vbulletin and therefore no method for one user to track another's IP address. All communication is to and from the sportfishingbc.com server. The administrators of the site do see the IP address of each user but unless you are an admin then you don't. Or perhaps the admins are willing to give you this info.

Regardless, even if you were to find out the IP of a user all that would tell you is their ISP and approximate geographical location. So not really a threat no matter which way you look at it.

 

[sockeyefry2]

Charlie.

You know exactly what you were trying to do when you spoke of tracking adresses. That was sheer intimidation and bullying. To me who is not so computer savvy, it sounds alot like "I know wher you live" threat.

I shall address your last post then leave this forum:

The Seattle Aqarium is NOT a commercial Closed Containment system for the production of Market Salmon. It is a ZOO for aquatic animals.

The Conservation Fund article you posted is the ASF article I have been referencing to get the total water requirements.

And no I really don't care if there ever is another salmon farmed in BC. Shut em all down if you want.

Agent, I enjoyed swapping info with you. Maybe in the future the wild fish people and the farm people will figure out how to co exist to everyones benefit.

 

[trendsetter]

Charlie.

You know exactly what you were trying to do when you spoke of tracking adresses. That was sheer intimidation and bullying. To me who is not so computer savvy, it sounds alot like "I know wher you live" threat.

I shall address your last post then leave this forum:

The Seattle Aqarium is NOT a commercial Closed Containment system for the production of Market Salmon. It is a ZOO for aquatic animals.

The Conservation Fund article you posted is the ASF article I have been referencing to get the total water requirements.

And no I really don't care if there ever is another salmon farmed in BC. Shut em all down if you want.

Agent, I enjoyed swapping info with you. Maybe in the future the wild fish people and the farm people will figure out how to co exist to everyones benefit.

Well I happen to be computer savvy and don't worry about it, it's an empty threat.

A. He can't track your IP address unless the administrators of this site chose to give it to him.
B. An IP address doesn't tell him who your are or where you live.

An IP can only be traced back to your ISP (Telus, Shaw, Bell etc) and an approximate geographical location (Vancouver, Surrey, Victoria, Nanaimo etc).

Noting but hot air so don't worry about it.

 

[Charlie]

Don't want to stir the pot, just curious a to how you have this ability?

There is no peer-peer communication on vbulletin and therefore no method for one user to track another's IP address. All communication is to and from the sportfishingbc.com server. The administrators of the site do see the IP address of each user but unless you are an admin then you don't. Or perhaps the admins are willing to give you this info.

Regardless, even if you were to find out the IP of a user all that would tell you is their ISP and approximate geographical location. So not really a threat no matter which way you look at it.

That is correct!

 

[bigbruce]

IMHO, "Charlie" should be sent to the penalty box for a significant period after this "missile over the bow". Clearly frustrated by others' arguments, he uses the "I can find you" threat. Empty, obviously, but on a largely anonymous forum, NOT COOL!!

You do understand I have the ability to track your IP address, right?

 

[Dave]

I hope not. His posts are a hoot

 

[agentaqua]

New article on sea lice and fish farms:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0064039

Abstract

Parasitic salmon lice are potentially harmful to salmonid hosts and farm produced lice pose a threat to wild salmonids. To control salmon lice infections in Norwegian salmonid farming, numbers of lice are regularly counted and lice abundance is reported from all salmonid farms every month. We have developed a stochastic space-time model where monthly lice abundance is modelled simultaneously for all farms. The set of farms is regarded as a network where the degree of contact between farms depends on their seaway distance. The expected lice abundance at each farm is modelled as a function of i) lice abundance in previous months at the same farm, ii) at neighbourhood farms, and iii) other, unspecified sources. In addition, the model includes explanatory variables such as seawater temperature and farm-numbers of fish. The model gives insight into factors that affect salmon lice abundance and contributing sources of infection. New findings in this study were that 66% of the expected salmon lice abundance was attributed to infection within farms, 28% was attributed to infection from neighbourhood farms and 6% to non-specified sources of infection. Furthermore, we present the relative risk of infection between neighbourhood farms as a function of seaway distance, which can be viewed as a between farm transmission kernel for salmon lice. The present modelling framework lays the foundation for development of future scenario simulation tools for examining the spread and abundance of salmon lice on farmed salmonids under different control regimes.

I don't pretend to understand all or even much of the math. But there are some interesting model-derived insights as they play with the model - which is really the strength of good models.

Case-in-point - the graph which will show at the end of this post because I can't figure-out how to insert a graph where the talking is done using this online software.

In it they model relative risk effects at increasing seaway distance - and as you would expect - it is a logrithmic graph where as you increase seaway distance to 10+km - this risk decreases substantially.

You would already expect that the graph was logrithmic as the volume of a sphere increases expotentially with radius distance - which is how you model dilution effects.

You would already expect 10km being near the point of inflection on the graph by already doing dye studies where the lengthways horizontal movement of surface water in most fjords and channels with 20 ft tide averages ~+5km back'n'forth - which makes a 10km "plume" in the seaway.

This is called scientifically validating your assumptions - which is not done in the environmental assessments for open net-cages in Canada but is common for identifying plume effects in environmental assessments for pulp mills and other industries.

Instead our "siting criteria" draws an arbitary and indefensible 1km radius from the mouth of a significant fish-bearing creek.

And for you model-haters out there - the data behind this risk assessment was actual sea lice numbers from Norwegian fish farms.

 

[agentaqua]

AND for you very few holocost deniers, climate change denyers and fish farm denyers (that'd be you CK): here's a few lines from NOT those pesky Morton anti- camp, but from regulators in Norway (authors given in above link):

Infectious diseases constitute a constant problem in industrialised farming where there typically are both high densities of farms and high densities of animals within each farm. Disease outbreaks can have large economic consequences to farming industries, but can also have severe ecological effects if infections are spread to and impair the viability of wild animals. Several mathematical and statistical models within this field have been developed during the last decades and applied to as diverse diseases as foot-and-mouth disease, swine fever, bluetongue and infectious salmon anaemia [1]–[5]. In all these models, probabilities of infection relative to distance, often called transmission kernels [1], [4], play an important role.

Possible effects of salmon farming on sea lice infections on wild stocks of salmonids, and hence the viability of such wild stocks, has evoked a large and contentious debate [7]–[9]. Nevertheless, the notion that salmon farming does affect local transmission of salmon lice to wild salmonids [9], [10], as well as to farmed salmonids [11], seems well established. Recent studies also report that parasiticide-treatment of outwardly migrating salmon smolts significantly increases their marine survival compared to non-treated control smolts, suggesting that salmon lice induce mortality in wild salmonid hosts [12]–[14].

Put on your tinhat CK.

 

[agentaqua]

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/...e-controversy-around-salmon-confidential.html

In answer to the controversy around Salmon Confidential

 

[agentaqua]

Spinning Farmed Salmon
By Peter McQuade

Exerpts:

The following analysis is not simply about industry strategy or science communication. It is not just a study of media coverage of salmon. It is an account of how scientific research which does not fit the interests of industry can be neutralised. It is a story that involves scientists, corporations, front groups, PR firms, ministers, civil servants and journalists. It shows that the public get a dangerously distorted view of science from the media. But this is relatively trivial compared with the main conclusion which is that vested interests operating together in a corporate/state two step are able to manage science and silence critics - even where these emanate from the most prestigious scientific journals in the world. The interests of the industry prevailed in this case by means of misinformation, manipulation and subterfuge. The implication of this for theories of democracy and governance that emphasise popular consent is that consent is not always essential for the reproduction of power.3


This unedifying tale suggests that the civil service and the government, in consort with the industry, are willing to put the needs of industrial scale aquaculture ahead of public health and sustainability. To say that this is short sighted does not begin to describe the problem

At a wider level this story also shows how decisions taken in corporate boardrooms, PR headquarters and government offices have direct effects on what information is available and on what decisions are taken, often with no input from popular opinion and with no regard for the truth. It is only by exposing this kind of deception and campaigning for democratic controls over political processes and corporations that science communication can perform a democratic function.

http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/component/k2/item/139-spinning-farmed-salmon-part-1-of-3
http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/component/k2/item/140-spinning-farmed-salmon-part-2-of-3
http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/component/k2/item/140-spinning-farmed-salmon-part-2-of-3

 

[agentaqua]

On the Water: Salmon Virus

http://kiroradio.com/listen/9956634/

 

[agentaqua]

Lets See the Facts in Newfoundland


THE TELEGRAM
May 28, 2013

Facts are important — so let’s see them

Russell Wangersky

Last week, former fisheries minister Trevor Taylor used his column space in this paper to tear a strip off the Liberals’ Jim Bennett for asking questions about the aquaculture industry in this province.

Taylor was at pains to point out that he’s not a particular expert: “Admittedly, I am no fisheries scientist, but in the 20-odd years I have been associated with the fishery I have seen a good many scientific papers.” He didn’t mention that, of course, he was at one point acting minister of fisheries and aquaculture, directly responsible for the conduct of the regulated aquaculture industry, at a time when the provincial government was a crucial equity investment partner in the industry.

One of the cornerstones of Taylor’s argument seems to be that anyone questioning the effects of aquaculture should have the facts.

“It is appropriate to demand high standards of our aquaculture industry. In spite of being one of the best run in North America, our industry undoubtedly can do better. It is also important to deal with facts when demanding accountability,” he wrote.

That’s a good point. Let’s deal with facts and accountability: for one, Taylor suggests that things like sea lice are naturally occurring; that’s true enough.

Are they a problem for aquaculture programs here? Let’s see.

Ask the provincial department of fisheries under the province’s access to information law, as someone recently did, for the province’s sea lice monitoring records for the years 2008 to 2012 and you’ll get this answer: “The department has identified aquatic animal health information as highly confidential and has implemented policies and security protocols in order to protect this information. As stated under Section 9(4) of the Aquaculture Act, information prescribed as confidential shall not be released to the public.”

The short answer? The information was not released, in part because the commercial interests of the aquaculture industry would be affected. (These are not my access to information requests: they are requests made to the department by an unnamed third party and posted on the province’s public engagement website.)

How about a request for details of bacterial kidney disease in farmed finfish in the province?

“The department has identified aquatic animal health information as highly confidential and has implemented policies and security protocols in order to protect this information. …”

How about a request for details on mortality rates for farmed salmon for the years 2011 and 2012, and the causes of death for those fish?

“The department has identified aquatic animal health information as highly confidential and has implemented policies and security protocols in order to protect this information. …”

Taylor says in his column that he’s read about mortality rates in wild fish: “There is one thing they all have in common: they have an estimate of natural mortality. The estimate varies but is generally around the 20 per cent mark. Approximately 20 per cent of fish in the wild die of natural causes every year.” He makes no mention of the fact that the corresponding mortality rates in farmed salmon are a state secret in this province.

The bottom line? The department has flatly refused to release information, even under access law.

So, if you actually want the facts while demanding accountability, something former-minister-of-the-Crown Taylor finds so vital, you might have a hard time finding them.

He’s of the opinion the information is all right there. Talking about infectious salmon anemia, for example, he says “Salmon that become infected and die in a farm are documented and declared; it is public knowledge.”

Really? Finding information on aquaculture problems in this province is like pulling teeth. My bet is that even a former fisheries minister couldn’t get the answers.

But first, you know, he’d actually have to ask a question or two.

Russell Wangersky is The Telegram’s

editorial page editor. Email: rwanger@thetelegram.com

http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/...are-important-&mdash-so-let&rsquos-see-them/1

 

[agentaqua]

Suspected Case of Salmon Anaemia Under Investigation

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is in Goblin Cove in southern Newfoundland to investigate a suspected case of Infectious Salmon Anaemia (ISA) at a fish farm.

ISA is a pathogen that occurs naturally in the wild and can be fatal to fish. The latest suspected case was discovered during regular fish health monitoring.

The executive director of the N.L. Aquaculture Industry Association believes the disease was transferred to the farmed fish from the wild. The food inspection agency is controlling the movement of the fish so others won’t become infected.

“The CFIA will have tests back in the near future,” the provincial fisheries department wrote in a statement. “If a fish health issue is positively confirmed by CFIA, the agency will take further disease control actions.”

A positive test could mean financial losses for the fish farm involved. There is no risk to humans.

The CFIA will post the test results online if it finds that fish are infected. The fisheries department is monitoring the situation.

 

[agentaqua]

The farm that allowed the escape of farmed salmon, the river where the escaped fish turned-up, and the site with the ISA outbreak are all in the Fortune Bay area of NFLD.

Related?

Did they test the escaped fish for ISA when they showed-up in the Garnish River?

 

[Dave]

Something more relevant to our Pacific coast ..

May 30, 2013
Contact: Darren Friedel (WDFW), 360-902-2256
Tony Meyer (Tribes), 360-528-4325
Taylor Goforth (USFWS), 360-753-4375
Tests show no signs of ISA virus in Washington’s salmon
OLYMPIA – Recent tests of salmon from Washington’s waters show no signs of a fish virus that can be deadly to farm-raised Atlantic salmon, state, tribal and federal resource managers announced today.
Infectious Salmon Anemia Virus (ISAV) was not detected in tissue samples taken from more than 900 wild and hatchery-produced Pacific chinook, coho, sockeye, chum and steelhead, as well as farm-raised Atlantic salmon.
ISAV is not harmful to people.
Specific strains of the virus have caused a deadly disease in farm-raised Atlantic salmon. Outbreaks with significant losses have occurred in farmed Atlantic salmon in Maine, Eastern Canada, Chile and several European countries.
ISAV has not been documented in farmed, wild or hatchery salmon in Washington.
John Kerwin, Fish Health Program manager for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), said concerns about the possibility of the virus occurring in Washington’s salmon prompted the recent tests, which are part of a two-year monitoring program specifically designed to detect ISAV.
“Our traditional testing protocols would have detected most – but not all – of the disease-causing strains of ISA virus,” Kerwin said. “So we expanded our program to better detect whether any strain is present in a variety of fish species in Washington. The good news is all the samples came back negative for the virus.”
Elsewhere on the west coast, there have been no confirmed reports of ISAV in wild, hatchery or farmed salmon. In 2011, a Canadian researcher reported detecting the virus in some British Columbia Pacific salmon. However, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the federal agency with authority for fish health in Canada, tested fish tissue samples and found no ISAV present.
Bruce Stewart, Fish Health Program manager for the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission, said the sampling and monitoring program is a great example of tribal, state and federal managers working together to address concerns about the health of salmon and steelhead stocks in Washington.
“While this first year’s results are encouraging, we hope to increase our level of confidence that the virus is not present in Washington by continuing our efforts and including testing of pink salmon,” said Stewart, who noted that most pink salmon return to Washington’s waters only in odd-numbered years.
Andy Goodwin, Fish Health Program manager for Region 1 of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, said the ISAV surveillance program is an important addition to an already comprehensive fish health monitoring effort by the agencies.
"Protecting the health of Pacific salmon populations is a high priority for us," Goodwin said. "This ISAV surveillance collaboration has really complemented the regular testing that we do on many thousands of fish every year."
The tissue samples taken for the ISAV monitoring program were analyzed at the Washington Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory in Pullman, and at a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service laboratory in Idaho.
More information on the species and stock of salmon sampled is available on WDFW’s website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/research/projects/salmon_anemia/.
The monitoring program – funded by the U.S. Department of Agriculture – is expected to continue for at least one more year. Participants include the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, Washington State University, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Additional monitoring programs are under way in Alaska and Canada.

 

[Dave]

Well the above bit of information seems to be the final nail in the coffin for this thread and probably about time. Charlie, it seems, was right ... Washington state salmon farms are just fine.

 

[Charlie]

Well the above bit of information seems to be the final nail in the coffin for this thread and probably about time. Charlie, it seems, was right ... Washington state salmon farms are just fine.

You REALLY don't want to go down this road!

"Charlie, it seems, was right ... Washington state salmon farms are just fine" is NOT what Charlie said -AT ALL! The fact that ISAv has not been discovered in WA fish is a good thing: HOWEVER, does NOT mean it isn't in BC? The fact ISAv has been found in "BC" by "YOU" is a bad thing, which means it is only a matter of time before YOUR HIGHLY INFECTECED NORWEGION FISH DISEASE LOTS pass it on to our Pacific wild salmon! Check YOUR test results!

 

[agentaqua]

Gray Aqua Farm in NL Under Quarantine

CBC
June 3, 2013

A Gray Aqua salmon farm on Newfoundland's south coast is under quarantine as officials test for infection.

The Newfoundland Aquaculture Industry Association confirmed on Monday that infectious salmon anemia is suspected at the farm in Hermitage Bay.

If confirmed, it would be the third outbreak in Newfoundland in less than a year.

Cyr Couturier, the association's executive director, said it's preparing for a cull of up to a half a million fish.

"We do presume that it is going to come back positive, and so efforts are being made to see what we can do in terms of de-population. So as soon at that cull is ordered by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, then we will be ready to go," he said.

Couturier said the industry expects a decision later this week.

Industry facing challenges

Couturier said the south coast is the hub of the province's salmon farming, which has produced hundreds of jobs and revived about a dozen communities.

"It's been growing for the last 30 years, and in the last decade, really, we've grown to an industry that is worth almost $200 million to the rural economy of Newfoundland and Labrador," he said.

But the industry does face some new challenges.

The federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans recently confirmed that some salmon caught at the mouth of the Garnish River on the Burin Peninsula escaped from an aquaculture farm.

Critics fear that type of incident could threaten wild salmon populations.

The industry is also fighting a disease problem.

Infectious salmon anemia was confirmed at a Gray Aqua site near Conne River in July 2012, which led federal officials to order the destruction of hundreds of thousands of salmon at the site.

In December 2012, more fish were destroyed after another outbreak at a Cooke Aquaculture facility in Hermitage Bay.

While scientists have said those infected fish are safe to eat, the CFIA has not approved their sale in stores.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...2013/06/03/nl-salmon-farm-quarantine-603.html

 

[Sculpin]

Well the above bit of information seems to be the final nail in the coffin for this thread and probably about time

Not going to happen Dave. Nice try though. We will keep talking and posting about it till the cow's come home. Why do you want the final nail in the coffin on this discussion?

 

[greenhornet]

Well I see there is alot of debate I just took my nefews to see salmon confidential and the 11 year old said.. Uncle Paul why would the gonment want to cover up the diseased fish here,I basically told him that its all about the mighty dollar or business .He a sharp kid so he says Im never eating farmed salmon ever!!! followed by I hope they get rid of all those farms So I can eat wild salmon when Im old.. an 11 year old can figure out whats happening here with these farms destroying our salmon stocks and ocean environment and the feds wash it all under the rug.Very sad we as tax payers we actually pay them to deplete stocks when they know fair well whats happening and try to muzzle all sientific research...

Tight lines
Billydoo