All Things COVID-19

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I’m not a biochemist.

It just seems to me like vaccinating the at most at risk people properly will keep the numbers down at the ICU and morgue.

If the government directly disobeys the science from Pfizer and the W.H.O., which apparently they are, my spidey senses are telling me, that we could see a catastrophic result.

I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
 
Stizzla said:
100% agree. I’d rather half of Canadians get properly vaccinated with 2, than all of us getting 1.
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browningmirage said:
If the data holds, that's a pretty clearly wrong statement...so far its holding here, and more jurisdictions are finding the same.

Better to vaccinate 10 million with 80%efficacy and play catchup when supply chains are established, than to poke 5 at the specified interval and leave 5 million completely unprotected.

Having said that, it all depends on that one shot efficacy. If it drops to say 50% the math changes completely.
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browningmirage is spot on. The flu vaccine is only ~60% effective, it still reduces mortality, and spread.
A single shot of the C-19 (80-90% effective) greatly reduces serious illness and death. The minor difference to improve the C-19 by getting the second shot is not worth the mortality rate in the non-vaccinated 50%. Also leaving half the population vulnerable gives higher opportunity to home bred variants.
Dr. Henry's teams choice is sound.
 
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U.S. expert says Canada is missing the chance to fight the P.1 COVID-19 variant​


A top U.S. health expert who was among the first to sound the alarm about the COVID-19 pandemic last year is now raising concerns about the spread of the P.1 variant in Canada, warning the country is acting too slowly.

globalnews.ca

U.S. expert says Canada is missing the chance to fight the P.1 COVID-19 variant

Epidemiologist Eric Feigl-Ding warned in January 2020 that COVID-19 could become a "thermonuclear pandemic." He says the P.1 variant from Brazil could be even worse.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca

A third of Covid-19 survivors suffer 'brain disease,' study shows​


As many as one in three people infected with Covid-19 have longer term mental health or neurological symptoms, researchers reported Tuesday.

They found 34% of Covid-19 survivors received a diagnosis for a neurological or psychological condition within six months of their infection, according to the study published Tuesday in the journal Lancet Psychiatry.

amp.cnn.com

A third of Covid-19 survivors suffer 'brain disease,' study shows

amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com
 
ILHG said:
Gil, very good point. I had read an article saying all residents had the first shot, but I cant find it? However even with both shots your right ~5% would still catch it. But dam near 100% wont end up in the hospital with 2 shots.

On the same hand with one shot ~20% will still catch it. I have read some articles saying that results from Europe show that seniors may even be lower efficiency.?.? Hopefully the one shot will keep them out of the hospital.

It's just not right though how the citizens of Canada,,, our loved ones are part of a experiment. While the likelyhood may be low, I dont want my loved ones being a statistic. Pepole like my mother wont survive covid. I work with a great man who had a double lung transplant. He only gets one shot.... For him, covid is fatal.

I do feel that healthy pepole should wait to get a shot. We owe our seniors a second shot first. One life is to many. Thousands of Healthy pepole in Canada catch covid every day and recover with out issues. I now know of 12 pepole who have had it and they all recovered with in a week. It was not fun, but they recovered. I personally would rather catch it and suffer for a week, then have someone die because I took their second shot.

This is just my opinion. I dont want to push it on anyway. It's what makes me feel better and helps me sleep at night.

I do admit to being sensitive to the subject of a second shot. I will be honest that every day I stress for my mother. She is one freaking shot away from having the best chance she has at seeing my kids grow up. My emotions can jump ahead of me with this subject.
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More information will be coming out over the next few days but here is the latest on this issue from this morning. If you need to talk to me I'll be happy to go offline with you as we have much in common when it comes to moms and as always listen to your provinces Chief Medical Officer Dr Deena Hinshaw.

Starts around the 6 minute mark.
 
This is my opinion but I believe the companies doing the trials picked the absolute minimum time between doses so they could get the trails done months ahead of time.

It's easy for doctors to say just follow the recommendations, just as its easy for engineers to say to just follow the spec. Harder to put you butt on the line and make educated judgments based on past experience, knowledge and emerging evidence.
 
wildmanyeah said:
This is my opinion but I believe the companies doing the trials picked the absolute minimum time between doses so they could get the trails done months ahead of time.

It's easy for doctors to say just follow the recommendations, just as its easy for engineers to say to just follow the spec. Harder to put you butt on the line and make educated judgments based on past experience, knowledge and emerging evidence.
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Good point. Like they could have waited 6months. But don't really have the time to Run trails to see if that works.
 
wildmanyeah said:
It's easy for doctors to say just follow the recommendations, just as its easy for engineers to say to just follow the spec. Harder to put you butt on the line and make educated judgments based on past experience, knowledge and emerging evidence.
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The politicians are not doing this based on past experience, knowledge or emerging science, they are doing it because of their failure to procure vaccines in sufficient numbers (we are now 52nd in the world). No one else is doing 4 months, only the UK is doing 3. The CDC and WHO, actual organizations with infectious disease experts) and many others are reiterating their warnings not to experiment with the dosing particularly in older people, where almost all the mortality exists. It's an experiment, hopefully it will be OK. How can the Government make recommendations on what is safe to do after 1 dose, or even 2 based on speculation and non-existent science? The manufacturers are not studying this dosing regime, they have warned against it. The CDC has guidance on what fully vaccinated people can do, because they know what the efficacy is. How can that be done here?
 
Port Eliza Fishing said:
The politicians are not doing this based on past experience, knowledge or emerging science, they are doing it because of their failure to procure vaccines in sufficient numbers (we are now 52nd in the world). No one else is doing 4 months, only the UK is doing 3. The CDC and WHO, actual organizations with infectious disease experts) and many others are reiterating their warnings not to experiment with the dosing particularly in older people, where almost all the mortality exists. It's an experiment, hopefully it will be OK. How can the Government make recommendations on what is safe to do after 1 dose, or even 2 based on speculation and non-existent science? The manufacturers are not studying this dosing regime, they have warned against it. The CDC has guidance on what fully vaccinated people can do, because they know what the efficacy is. How can that be done here?
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you're not wrong but given canada's vaccine supply i don't think what they have chosen to do is a horrible strategy.
 
wildmanyeah said:
This is my opinion but I believe the companies doing the trials picked the absolute minimum time between doses so they could get the trails done months ahead of time.

It's easy for doctors to say just follow the recommendations, just as its easy for engineers to say to just follow the spec. Harder to put you butt on the line and make educated judgments based on past experience, knowledge and emerging evidence.
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Dr. Henry has pointed out the time line was short for that reason as well.

As for engineers; when I worked on bridges we assessed the 'engineered' safety systems ourselves. You could tell which engineer passed with a C and who got an A. Became a standing joke/warning.
 
wildmanyeah said:
you're not wrong but given canada's vaccine supply i don't think what they have chosen to do is a horrible strategy.
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This seems reasonable to me, but I'm pretty annoyed at how the reason we need to do this giant experiment is being largely overlooked in the media. We've been forced to do stuff that's directly against the advice of the manufacturer and pretty much every public health body that deals with vaccines...because we have to do something, and we can't do what we should be doing.

I also find it darkly humourous how frequently I hear people using "follow the science" as a universal pejorative against anyone with any questions or concerns at all...except in the cases like, for example, this radical deviation from the advice of global health agencies who warned that it could cause accelerated development of more contagious strains. But don't follow that science, just the science I want you to follow! That science from the people I ordinarily want you to listen to is different science than the rest of the science they release! Don't listen to it because there's other science from Canada which is inexplicably better in this case for reasons I can't actually establish, which is not at all the same as when you referenced an epidemiologist with a different set of recommendations, because that was wrong science. Stop acting like there's room for dispute here and just follow the science!

Of course, as is probably no secret, in general I just hate that "stop thinking and do what you're told" attitude.
 

How BC Fumbled the Third Wave​

Four experts say leaders were warned of the variant threat but misread key data and failed to respond fast enough.

After successfully battling the first wave and coming closest to mirroring Atlantic Canada’s success story with COVID-19, B.C. has fallen from grace. Besieged by variants and now breaking record case counts, B.C. has joined the ranks of some of Canada’s worst performing provinces. Why?

thetyee.ca

How BC Fumbled the Third Wave | The Tyee

Four experts say leaders were warned of the variant threat but misread key data and failed to respond fast enough.
thetyee.ca thetyee.ca
 
As more people get vaccinated against COVID-19 every day in the US and with case numbers declining, many have started feeling optimistic that life could return to normal. But the spread of SARS-CoV-2 variants around the globe could threaten that possibility if they blunt the effectiveness of available vaccines. This video reviews what we know as of April 2021 about coronavirus variants and vaccines, and implications for public health going forward. For links to related articles and multimedia, visit https://ja.ma/3g2F7TJ. Links to source references are embedded in the transcript. Originally published April 7, 2021.

 
islandboy said:
Dr. Henry has pointed out the time line was short for that reason as well.

As for engineers; when I worked on bridges we assessed the 'engineered' safety systems ourselves. You could tell which engineer passed with a C and who got an A. Became a standing joke/warning.
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Did you ever change the manufacture rating on materials that have been fully QC because you didnt have enough materials. Say your short a couple of iron beams so you just decide to change the tensile strength of the ones you got to make it work.

Unlike politicians Engineers are professionals who put safety first. Can you imagine driving on a bridge or flying in a plane that was "assessed" by the contractors for what was needed for safety based on materials on hand...

This is the EXACT situation we are in now.
 
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ILHG said:
Did you ever change the manufacture rating on materials that have been fully QC because you didnt have enough materials. Say your short a couple of iron beams so you just decide to change the tensile strength of the ones you got to make it work.

Unlike politicians Engineers are professionals who put safety first. Can you imagine driving on a bridge or flying in a plane that was "assessed" by the contractors for what was needed for safety based on materials on hand... Makes me think of that guy who built his own rocket to prove the earth was flat. I don't recall that flight going to well for him.

This is the EXACT situation we are in now.
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Nope, only worked on crews that knew you had to look out for your own safety. Also worked on a project in Tofino to correct major structural issues; the original engineer lost his 'professional status'.
Not sure how you equate the two given the science keeps changing. Once again the NACI has confirmed the extension is good and both suppliers have indicated their ongoing trials prove the 'new' science.
 
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ILHG said:
Did you ever change the manufacture rating on materials that have been fully QC because you didnt have enough materials. Say your short a couple of iron beams so you just decide to change the tensile strength of the ones you got to make it work.

Unlike politicians Engineers are professionals who put safety first. Can you imagine driving on a bridge or flying in a plane that was "assessed" by the contractors for what was needed for safety based on materials on hand... Makes me think of that guy who built his own rocket to prove the earth was flat. I don't recall that flight going to well for him.

This is the EXACT situation we are in now.
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Are politicians purely deciding this? I thought it was the NACL recommendations. Here are the members of the committee, I don't see any politicians.

National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI): Membership and representation - Canada.ca

NACI Membership/Representation
www.canada.ca www.canada.ca

I am sure there are some politics at play. However, if it was truly an egregious plan you would have members speaking out. In an ideal situation, we follow the vaccine protocols to the letter and get everyone vaccinated immediately. We simply are not in that situation as we don't have enough vaccines yet.

There should be a covid inquiry to see what failed in our total response to Covid-19 and a main part of that should be getting vaccines.
 
NA0408-vaccine-rollout_Web.png

Not sure if this should be in the "Covid Cuckle" thread?
 
islandboy said:
Dr. Henry has pointed out the time line was short for that reason as well.

As for engineers; when I worked on bridges we assessed the 'engineered' safety systems ourselves. You could tell which engineer passed with a C and who got an A. Became a standing joke/warning.
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The joke for any of us engineering is how many can't even read drawings, so I guess it goes both ways. Most of the time you just shake your head of the dumb things done on job sites, or the manufacturing floor. It doesn't matter how many times you say/draw something it gets challenged leading to issues. My former job was always handing stuff off on behalf for engineering so I heard it all. I am lucky most of the engineering staff I worked with were all trades guys before they got there diplomas/degrees.... We were all hands on.
 
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