What Happened to the Sockeye?

Kisinana

Active Member
Found this on another site.
{Qoute}
Dear Fisheries Minster Shea:

I am following the news that DFO is reporting 11 million sockeye salmon have vanished. The magnitude, social impact and trajectory of this fishery failure is on a par with the collapse of Canada’s Atlantic cod. Scientists have published on what went wrong within DFO to allow the cod, one of earth’s most abundant food resources to collapse. They identified political distortion of the science as a critical factor. They argue the public was not accurately informed as the collapse was underway.

(Hutchings, J.A., Walters, C., and Haedrich, R.L. 1997. Is scientific inquiry incompatible with government information control? Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci. 54: 1198–1210. )

This brings me to several recent comments in the media attributed to high-ranking DFO employees. Bary Rosenburger, DFO area director for the Fraser, describes the Fraser sockeye collapse as unexpected and that DFO doesn’t know what happened (Globe and Mail, Aug 13, 2009). But the next day he goes on to say it does not look like fish farms are responsible (BCLocalNews.com).

On August 15, Paul Sprout, Pacific Region Director for DFO published a letter in the Globe and Mail “Sea lice from fish farms are not the explanation of this year’s extremely poor marine survival of Fraser River sockeye...”

Given both the importance of the Fraser sockeye to the BC economy, ecology and First Nations; and the analysis that DFO political interference with science may have allowed the east coast cod to collapse, it is reasonable to ask what science did Sprout and Rosenburger use to inform the public that fish farms are not responsible for this sockeye collapse?

Two of your highest ranking employees involved with this fishery have publicly exonerated the fish farmers, an industry associated with catastrophic salmon collapse worldwide (Ford and Myers 2008) and here in BC (Krkosek et al 2007).

The most recent past catastrophic BC wild salmon collapse was in 2002 when 99% of the Broughton pink salmon failed to return. The Pink Salmon Action Plan (http://www.fish.bc.ca/node/135) temporarily removed farm salmon from the Broughton pink salmon migration route and the next generation of pink salmon returned at the highest survivorship ever recorded for the species (Beamish et al 2006). That management decision was reversed and the stock collapsed again.

Dr. Brian Riddell of the Pacific Salmon Foundation suggests that answers to the fate of these sockeye may lie in what happened to them right after they left the Fraser River, before they reached the open ocean. I and others did examine this run of sockeye shortly after they left the Fraser River. We were the last scientists to see these fish before they disappeared, and they had up to 28 sea lice on them as they passed the salmon farms off Campbell River.

Before you reply that DFO’s Dr. Simon Jones says young salmon are highly resistant to lice, please review his publications. I do not find the data in his studies to support this claim once the lice are attached to the fish. Many international scientific papers run contrary to Dr. Jones’ assertions.

I cannot tell you that fish farms definitely killed all 11 million missing Fraser sockeye, but fish farms most certainly are involved because DFO and the Province of BC sited them on the Fraser River migration route. The missing sockeye did swim through fish farm effluent. Rather than exempting fish farms from your investigation you must order complete disclosure of the health and number of farm salmon on the missing Fraser sockeye migration route in 2006-present. And we, the people of Canada and beyond, need to know why DFO is exonerating fish farms in the first few days of the investigation on what happened to one of earth’s most generous human food supplies?

Alexandra Morton
www.adopt-a-fry.org

{End Quote}

Interesting they can say one day they have not the faintest idea what happened, but the next day can assert it had nothing to do with fish farms.
 
Best as I can tell the 11,000,000 sockeye that went "missing" never really existed. This is what the mathematical models and forecasting tools PREDICTED would return based on adult returns in the contributing brood years. Nobody EVER counted those fish.

Any number of things could have happened to the fish that were PREDICTED to return...eggs survival, freshwater survival, early marine survival, high seas survival, disease etc...

Not sure a retrospective analysis is going to help anyone at this point...highlighting data deficiencies and fixing those should be priority number one.
 
quote:Originally posted by ratherbefishing

Best as I can tell the 11,000,000 sockeye that went "missing" never really existed. This is what the mathematical models and forecasting tools PREDICTED would return based on adult returns in the contributing brood years. Nobody EVER counted those fish.

Any number of things could have happened to the fish that were PREDICTED to return...eggs survival, freshwater survival, early marine survival, high seas survival, disease etc...

Not sure a retrospective analysis is going to help anyone at this point...highlighting data deficiencies and fixing those should be priority number one.

"Never existed" BINGO!!!!
 
quote:Originally posted by ratherbefishing

Best as I can tell the 11,000,000 sockeye that went "missing" never really existed. This is what the mathematical models and forecasting tools PREDICTED would return based on adult returns in the contributing brood years. Nobody EVER counted those fish.

Any number of things could have happened to the fish that were PREDICTED to return...eggs survival, freshwater survival, early marine survival, high seas survival, disease etc...

Not sure a retrospective analysis is going to help anyone at this point...highlighting data deficiencies and fixing those should be priority number one.

Forcasts were made based on smolt numbers and smolt averedge size leaving the major systems-Chilko ect...Chilko for example has a smolt counting fence that blockades the entire river during the out migration. The numbers of out migrating smolts were much higher than expected as well the size of the smolts was larger than averedge. It's most likely the ocean suvival factor was out of wack for whatever reason. Strangely, the Somass numbers were on target and then some. Odd how the Fraser fish didn't follow the same trend. We'll have to wait and see how many make it to their home systems to really know how many came back.
 
Of interest and seemingly unreported ...

From Dr Dick Beamish's summer work in the Strait of Georgia, those many large healthy sockeye smolts leaving the Fraser that year (2007?) were not seen in the test seines in large number as predicted and anticipated. This was before Alexandra Morton would have seen them in her sealice tests. Dr Beamish concluded at the time this sockeye run either suffered very high mortality in the Fraser main stem or during their first few weeks in the Strait leading to a low adult return in 2009. He also pondered that the smolts all left the Strait of Georgia early ergo not being encountered in his test fishery.

I guess we know what happened now

Gov

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
I wonder how the Alaska Sockeye fishery went? I could guess that a large portion of their catch was Fraser fish, it usually is, but you never hear much about the stock composition from thier fisheries. On the other hand my cousin in Sooke is doing really well on Sockeye right now. He said he had 8 in 2 hours just a couple days ago. He knows where to fish them there.

Take only what you need.
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Yes there are sockeye in Sooke and I also know how to catch them, but as there is a continuing (10 year) problem I like almost everyone else let them all go. Of coarse your cousin and others are catching them behind me, destroying my efforts. Sorry man but this 2 rule system pisses me off. I just want healthy runs of fish for everyone and that will only happen if we all work together doing the same thing!!!!!
 
Aren't sockeye closed for rec fishing??? I was north of Campbell River today and released a few. Checked dfo site and it is closed from what I read
 
Oh Sorry I don't pay much attention to what's open and closed for you guys. I guess I should check your regs before I post.;)

quote:Yes there are sockeye in Sooke and I also know how to catch them, but as there is a continuing (10 year) problem I like almost everyone else let them all go. Of coarse your cousin and others are catching them behind me, destroying my efforts. Sorry man but this 2 rule system pisses me off. I just want healthy runs of fish for everyone and that will only happen if we all work together doing the same thing!!!!!

I would happily give up my right to food fish for a large cash payment. In the long run the resource would benifit.



Take only what you need.
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Hey guys,
I've bitten my tongue long enough...and FA has finally gotten a rise out of me...

Why not just ignore this 'character'. He clearly isn't contributing much to this site and is constantly 'fishing' for a rise. Whenever he posts, ignore him...maybe he will get the hint that his attitude is not welcome. Let's talk about fishing!
 
I appologise for my mentioning the sockeye around sooke, I comment to profisher about the 2 rule system, and that I am willing to fish like the rest of you, and I get **** on !!!??? Typical...

Take only what you need.
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By and large I would say the recreational fishery is the true food fishery. We consume, give away or let go what we catch. With a few exceptions by the idiots within any group. The FN food fishery for the most part is an unlicensed commercial fishery. A commercial fishery that undermines the conservation efforts of other user groups and doesn't collect full market value for the fish it takes. FA I'm not saying that you personally sell your catch. Sorry to be so harsh but I'm tired of all the BS and want to see the fish win here.
 
FA i would like to see the government first give the fish a large amount of cash to undo the harm done in the past by the European fishers and corporations. That would be righting a wrong. Inject the billions there to restore habitat and bring runs back to historical levels for ALL to enjoy responsibly. Not saying compensation isn't deserved just think the fish suffered more and should be one ahead of you in the que.
 
Isn't it about time that we accepted the US model of half the TAC going to FN's? BTW I pretty much agree with your points. You see the First Nations as a commercial fleet, we see sports fishermen as a commercial fleet, so we bicker while there actually is a commercial fleet catching 80% of the TAC. In Washington State they gave the First Nations half of the harvestable fish destined to pass by the tribes' usual and accustomed fishing places. I would see nothing wrong with complying with such a fishery.


Take only what you need.
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quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

Isn't it about time that we accepted the US model of half the TAC going to FN's?

...no! However it is time to create equality for every stakeholder group that shares in the bounty of abundance where our resources are concerned. Segregation and discrimination are a passed failing directive that has been proven to fail throughout history. It's time to become one people...not divided without direction!

- UNKNOWN -

So your looking to become communist?

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

Isn't it about time that we accepted the US model of half the TAC going to FN's? BTW I pretty much agree with your points. You see the First Nations as a commercial fleet, we see sports fishermen as a commercial fleet, so we bicker while there actually is a commercial fleet catching 80% of the TAC.

In Washington State they gave the First Nations half of the harvestable fish destined to pass by the tribes' usual and accustomed fishing places. I would see nothing wrong with complying with such a fishery.</u>

EXCUSSE ME, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD? YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, BEFORE SPOUTING OFF! OR, ARE YOU REALLY THAT MUCH OF AN IDIOT?

Yes, there are certain "Tribes" here in Washington that have 50 percent TAC, but you make it sound like "FIRST NATIONS" AND ALL… THAT IS NOT THE CASE! The "Tribes" are identified by "treaty" and by "NAME". Nothing is identified as "First Nations"! Do some of our tribes belong to First Nations, yes. BUT, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TAC!

AND, the tribes that have that "right", BY TREATY, have formed together and have actually done a LOT of good to restore the fishery!

NOW I ASK YOU? WHAT HAVE YOU OR ANY OF YOUR TRIBES DONE, BUT TAKE… WHAT HAVE YOU CONSERVED, ANYTHING???????

You might want to think about going back to selling "firewood"?
 
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