Upset about the Chinook Closures? What to do next?

Here was my response

The letter actually provides nothing new. What the letter does well is it makes people feel guilty for fishing for a chinook. To that end I would say the department has been very successful as there is almost no recreational boats out for C&R and the industry has been completely devastated. For the last 2 months an abundance of american hatchery fish have been swimming through our local waters. Fish that we should have access to as those fish were negotiated for in the PST, instead we cannot even retain a hatchery fish.

The closure announced by the Minister on April 16 is not good fisheries management.

It was a political decision not based on sound management practices taking into consideration specific stocks of concern, and allowing non endangered stocks to still be caught. Closing everything was an easy way out that bowed down to first Nations pressure and arm chair environmentalists. As a DFO Salmon Management biologist I would be disappointed in the action taken. This restriction will do nothing for the protection of those endangered Chinook stocks and is only optics for political gain. Senior DFO Directors that are to be Public servants did not do their job and in this case and acted as political pawns. Very disappointed!!

That being said it does state:

"An assessment of the effectiveness of these management measures will be completed in the post-season. For the management units that have coded wire tag (CWT) indicators, Canadian fishery mortalities will be used to assess performance against the management objectives. However, current CWT indicators are not available to project fishery mortalities for the Spring 52 and Summer 52 Chinook. As a result, information on run timing, historic CWT recoveries, and genetic stock identification was used to implement measures in times/areas where these stocks may be encountered. A planned Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat (CSAS) review of the available information to quantify impacts of commercial, recreational and First Nations fisheries on Fraser Chinook, including Spring 42, Spring 52 and Summer 52 Chinook, is planned for review in July 2019, which is anticipated to provide a methodology that can be used to assist with assessing the fishery impacts for these stocks in the post-season. "

Can we be provided the assessment results at the fall or spring SFAC meeting

Thanks
 
This stood out right away.

“In addition, new restrictions in commercial and recreational fisheries are intended to support increased availability of not at risk Summer 41 Chinook for First Nations fisheries harvest opportunities during August and September.”

Anyone still wanna say this not a reallocation? (Not saying anyone on this thread is saying that. )
 
This stood out right away.

“In addition, new restrictions in commercial and recreational fisheries are intended to support increased availability of not at risk Summer 41 Chinook for First Nations fisheries harvest opportunities during August and September.”

Anyone still wanna say this not a reallocation? (Not saying anyone on this thread is saying that. )

Net the **** out of the last remaining Fraser river stock that's not in the toilet. What a plan
 
FORTY-ONE FN in-river Openings to date on the most threatened runs of Chinook the Fraser has since Wilkinson imposed the restrictions.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.htm

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/...ns/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html

In addition to an ongoing full blown FN Troll Fishery (with no numbers cap) in Area G waters that the latter were forced off of due to "conservation concerns".

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=221391&ID=all

And on top of that, the letter the Minister sent around today no longer even attempts to disguise the re-allocation aspect:

“In addition, new restrictions in commercial and recreational fisheries are intended to support increased availability of not at risk Summer 41 Chinook for First Nations fisheries harvest opportunities during August and Septembe
r.”

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...-management-letter-june-2019-final-pdf.45727/

Rather obvious to anyone with eyes this is a complete travesty.

Nog
 
FORTY-ONE FN in-river Openings to date on the most threatened runs of Chinook the Fraser has since Wilkinson imposed the restrictions.

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.htm

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/...ns/HTMLs/CeremonialOpeningTimes_Previous.html

In addition to an ongoing full blown FN Troll Fishery (with no numbers cap) in Area G waters that the latter were forced off of due to "conservation concerns".

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=221391&ID=all

And on top of that, the letter the Minister sent around today no longer even attempts to disguise the re-allocation aspect:

“In addition, new restrictions in commercial and recreational fisheries are intended to support increased availability of not at risk Summer 41 Chinook for First Nations fisheries harvest opportunities during August and Septembe
r.”

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...-management-letter-june-2019-final-pdf.45727/

Rather obvious to anyone with eyes this is a complete travesty.

Nog


Nog. I have a question for you regarding The FN troll that is on now if ya don’t mind. Are they fishing areaG outside waters? The ones that are closed to you and non retention for sport? I have not seen the location so have no clue, other than they are fishing.
 
Nog. I have a question for you regarding The FN troll that is on now if ya don’t mind. Are they fishing areaG outside waters? The ones that are closed to you and non retention for sport? I have not seen the location so have no clue, other than they are fishing.

They are restricted to the 1mn limit till July 15, That is still area G waters despite area G trollers not being aloud to fish there.
 
They are restricted to the 1mn limit till July 15, That is still area G waters despite area G trollers not being aloud to fish there.

They have openly stated they will only recognize the Court Determined Areas, yet operate well outside of even those. They are currently active up to 17 - 18 miles outside of the one mile restriction. No DFO in sight. Deliveries into Zabellos are noted as extremely good by a couple on-the-ground observers we have there.

Nog
 
They have openly stated they will only recognize the Court Determined Areas, yet operate well outside of even those. They are currently active up to 17 - 18 miles outside of the one mile restriction. No DFO in sight. Deliveries into Zabellos are noted as extremely good by a couple on-the-ground observers we have there.

Nog

Typical
 
Liberal government buying the Native vote at your expense.
 
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Wildmanyeah, the stocks that are going to be netted after July 15 have been on a downward trend.
Any stocks returning to the Fraser after July 15 this year are going to see a record number of openings.
The sockeye and springs will be absolutely decimated!
So much for conservation!
 
Wildmanyeah, the stocks that are going to be netted after July 15 have been on a downward trend.
Any stocks returning to the Fraser after July 15 this year are going to see a record number of openings.
The sockeye and springs will be absolutely decimated!
So much for conservation!

I know that
 
https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...es-tighter-regulations-and-waning-fish-stocks

Wilkinson said he doesn’t agree that the restrictions aren’t aligned with Indigenous Peoples’ constitutional rights.

“The only thing that remains open is a catch-and-release fishery for Chinook. So, there is no retention fishery,” he said.

But Murray says there is still mortality associated with catch-and-release.

“Not all of those fish will be Fraser-bound. Of course there’s some going down the southern coast, there might be some going to other islands and coastal waters. But if they catch one fish that’s Fraser-bound, that’s enough. You compromise the constitutional priority, in my mind.”
 
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https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...es-tighter-regulations-and-waning-fish-stocks

Wilkinson said he doesn’t agree that the restrictions aren’t aligned with Indigenous Peoples’ constitutional rights.

“The only thing that remains open is a catch-and-release fishery for Chinook. So, there is no retention fishery,” he said.

But Murray says there is still mortality associated with catch-and-release.

“Not all of those fish will be Fraser-bound. Of course there’s some going down the southern coast, there might be some going to other islands and coastal waters. But if they catch one fish that’s Fraser-bound, that’s enough. You compromise the constitutional priority, in my mind.”
Lol yeah “Not all are Fraser bound! No **** Sherlock. Then the continuation of the lie, “some going to other islands and coastal waters”! Time to call people on their BS, how many Clipped fish are Fraser bound!
 
They have openly stated they will only recognize the Court Determined Areas, yet operate well outside of even those. They are currently active up to 17 - 18 miles outside of the one mile restriction. No DFO in sight. Deliveries into Zabellos are noted as extremely good by a couple on-the-ground observers we have there.

Nog

Someone needs to document / video these activities and bring it in to public view and make dfo / liberals respond.

Same with the illegal netting on the river.

Absent that, there is nothing that will come of it.

I am too removed from either of those two activities to have seen it with my own eyes, but do believe they are occurring.

Let’s get it out there or we can just continue to b*tch about it on here.
 
Someone needs to document / video these activities and bring it in to public view and make dfo / liberals respond.

Same with the illegal netting on the river.

Absent that, there is nothing that will come of it.

I am too removed from either of those two activities to have seen it with my own eyes, but do believe they are occurring.

Let’s get it out there or we can just continue to b*tch about it on here.

No one cares except us...And that includes the people who's job is supposedly to save the world (or whales, or fish, or whatever the hell gets them the most money).
 
Victor says salmon was once so abundant, there would be three or four fish barbeques in the community every weekend throughout summer.

And they wonder where the fish went??

“I can tell you, our value on the fish is much more than any recreational or commercial fish they catch,” he said.

So the fish sold roadside out of the back of a truck is more valuable than troll or recreational caught? Really??

But if they catch one fish that’s Fraser-bound, that’s enough. You compromise the constitutional priority, in my mind.”


Locked down the entire South Coast damn near, while recognizing the majority of those fisheries had no impact.
Under threat that they would fish the stocks of concern into extinction should they not get their way.
And now whine for even more...

Victor says that to uphold constitutional priority, DFO shouldn’t allow any fisheries, catch-and-release or otherwise, until after Indigenous fisheries have theirs.


He also says that Canada should consider giving control of commercial fishing to Indigenous Peoples, who have fished the same populations for millennia.


Bottom Line: We want it ALL, and we want it NOW!

https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...es-tighter-regulations-and-waning-fish-stocks
 
Victor says salmon was once so abundant, there would be three or four fish barbeques in the community every weekend throughout summer.

And they wonder where the fish went??

“I can tell you, our value on the fish is much more than any recreational or commercial fish they catch,” he said.

So the fish sold roadside out of the back of a truck is more valuable than troll or recreational caught? Really??

But if they catch one fish that’s Fraser-bound, that’s enough. You compromise the constitutional priority, in my mind.”


Locked down the entire South Coast damn near, while recognizing the majority of those fisheries had no impact.
Under threat that they would fish the stocks of concern into extinction should they not get their way.
And now whine for even more...

Victor says that to uphold constitutional priority, DFO shouldn’t allow any fisheries, catch-and-release or otherwise, until after Indigenous fisheries have theirs.


He also says that Canada should consider giving control of commercial fishing to Indigenous Peoples, who have fished the same populations for millennia.


Bottom Line: We want it ALL, and we want it NOW!

https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...es-tighter-regulations-and-waning-fish-stocks
"Possibility of legal action
As for how to adapt to the restrictions, Ned lists three options. First, to do nothing. Second, he says people can take direct action, and go on the water to fish and perform ceremony.

The third way forward may be legal action, challenging the DFO restrictions on the basis of constitutional priority."


Why don't you think through this statement from Murray Ned re legal action. What would rec fishing look like and as your livelihood depends on commercial fishing what would that look like after a court case with them winning.
Are you sure you want to stir this pot with all this talk of how many opening they have had based on these harvest numbers?
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/ChinookKeptCatch.html
 
... Are you sure you want to stir this pot with all this talk of how many opening they have had based on these harvest numbers?

First: If you believe those numbers, you are even a bigger Fool than I have been lead to believe.

Second: My livelihood, and that of many others, has been sewered. Beyond sunset. We are all forced into finding something else as a consequence of these actions.

Third: I do not believe they would be successful in pursuing such a court action, otherwise they would have already filed - that is the way they roll after all.
And of course we would file as Interveners in the matter, and make damn certain the SCC (where it would end up) understand ALL of the ramifications.

In short, a dice I am willing to roll...

Capice?
Nog
 
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