Tying Tackle

[fish stalker]

So ive just been sorta winging it. Finally get to go fishing tomorrow and was tying up some gear and have a few questions hope someone can help me.

Hooks- open eye or closed eye? Alot of them seem to come open. What is the benefit? When are you putting a hook onto a welded eye (if thats the reason you buy them like that)?

The bend at the eye end of the hook what is that about?

Do you or can you use the palomor knot with both type hooks? or two different knots? are some knots not as good with the heavy pound test? Is 40 lb test mono to heavy for leaders? It seems trilene knot is a bit over kill and hard to try to a split ring?


Some flashers have barrel swivels on the hook end so dont need a extra swivel in the line (?) so I can just pretie a split ring on the lure leader? or better to tie directly to the flasher?


please dont feel you need to answer all questions any suggestions will be great!

 

[Labman2]

The one with the upturned eye, (Octopus) is generally the best for snelling or egg loop ties. Although they work well with a palomer, improved clinch, trilene knot.
Open eye, ( Siwash) used generally for replacing hooks on spoons.

I always run a bead chain on the top of my leaders, even though the flashers have one on each end as well.

Of course, I'm just speaking generally, others may disagree! LOL

 

[Seafever]

Fishstalker:-

Open eye hooks are used when we want to change a hook out, Some factory spoons have wimpy hooks or they are not quite the right size.
So you cut the old hook off and put a new one on the welded ring. squeeze the eye shut with vice-grips or good pliers.

The off set/angle eye on a salmon hook is for "snelling". You get a better direct pull on the hook when "snelled".
There are several variations of this knot. I like the "egg-loop" knot.

I like the "Clinch knot" for spoons...very easy to tie......You could use Palomar knot too.

I wouldn't use a Palomar or clinch knot on an offset-eye salmon hook....I'd stick with the "snell" knots for those.

40lb test is not too heavy for hoochies.......no less than 40 for hoochies but you can go 50 or 60lb. no problem.

I use 40lb for spoons too.......some guys use 30lb for spoons. Lures like Apex you need to go a bit lighter ....like 25lb
test.

DON"T tie knots to split rings. At least not on saltwater salmon gear.

Some flashers have barrel swivels and clips on the lure end......others don't

You can get Coast -lock snaps which have barrel-swivel and clip. Then you pretie your hoochies and spoons with these on the leader. Get the right size Coast-lock snap. Not too wimpy.

Then you cut everything off the lure end of the flasher except the welded ring.

When you are out on the water ....just clip your Coast-lock pre-rigged lure to the welded ring. No problem.

You need to factor in all the hardware in your total leader length. Example;- 38 " leader length from back of flasher to nose of hoochy will include all clips,swivels, etc.

Some guys tie hoochies direct to flasher with no swivels. They tie direct to the welded ring.

Only problem with this is;- when the fish takes off on along run he is pulling the flasher backwards...which is rotating as the fish swims fast. So the leader starts to get a twist in it because it has no swivel of any kind (if it is rigged with salmon hooks). Which is extra force to pull the hook out. If the hoochy is rigged with a Siwash and swivel inside, then no problem.
I prefer a swivel in there somewhere...be it inside the hoochy on a Siwash hook..or....at the end where it goes on the flasher (Coast-lock).

As mentioned ....a good sturdy bead chain at the front of the flasher added to the existing ball-bearing swivel is a good idea too. You can use a snap ring to connect the bead chain to the front swivel.....but make sure it is the size strong enough.

 

[fish stalker]

So tie the coast lock clips to the leaders off the hootchies?

problem is (I thought) that it seems most flashers have a coast lock snap on the flasher so if I prerig I end up going clip to clip. Is that ok? Seems like a lot of hardware flashing around? I have no idea why I think that would be bad.

Thats why I had some hootchies tied with a bead line swivel or just a split ring. But then some flashers just have a welded ring ahh lol

I guess the thing to do is line up all my flashers and make sure they all have just a welded ring and do coastlocks off all my hootchies? Vise versa might work better as most of my flashers I think decent quality barrel swivels. If so then what is the best thing to tie on if not a split ring? Just a smaller snap? This is a problem too as nothing says what pound rating it has. I think in the store something looks fine and i get it home and its either to big or to small.

Thank you so much for helping me and others as I see this got over 200 views in one day so I must not be the only one that needs help tying tackle.

oh so offset eye hooks are ok to use on all lures? it looks weird crooked out of a hootchie. havent tried it on anything else yet. better for when running tandems? but wouldnt use on off a plug? (i picked up a box of gamys on clearance as they went to new packaging so I have alot)

if I forgot to rinse of my gear one time and I have some suface rust can I sand that off if the hook it still sharp?

sorry of asking so many question I dont have anyone to talk fishing with.

 

[Seafever]

You can leave the coastlocks on your flashers......and put a bead swivel on your hoochy leader and connect it to the coastlock on the flasher when needed.

But now you have a welded ring, a coastlock with a swivel that came with the flasher and now another swivel on the leader end of the hoochy.....

too much swivels and hardware.

Another choice:- which is what I actually do personally.:- I cut everything off the flasher at the back except the welded ring.

I tie the hoochy (or spoon) with a bead swivel at the end of the leader.

I buy these little clips from Pacific Net and Twine.......they are diamond shaped and about 3/4 of an inch long.
They are 200lb break strength.
They can be affixed to swivels or ring in seconds.
I leave one on the welded ring of every flasher.

When I'm on the chuck I simply take the pretied hoochy or spoon with the swivel and connect it to the clip.
No muss , no fuss, can be done in seconds.

Never had one fail.

Minimum of hardware....yet effective.

I only want one swivel between the hoochy and flasher.......no more.

others will argue that you get a better 'whip" action on the hoochy by tying direct to ring with no swivel.

But every time you want to change one and cut it off you mess up your leader length doing that. And it's time consuming retying hoochies.

One swivel on the line will not mess your action up much. But if you've got 4 inches of hardware,multiple swivels and whatnot....that's a different story.

No....offset -eye hooks are NOT o.k. to use on all lures.

Use these on hoochies and use an egg-loop snell knot. Because the snell knot will make the hook "hang" right in the hoochy. You can use a closed-eye Siwash inside a hoochy but make sure to put a bead swivel in front of that hook.
If you use a closed-eye Siwash inside a hoochy you will use ONE hook.
If you use offset-eye salmon hooks you will generally use TWO hooks inside the hoochy (with no swivel inside inside the hoochy). You use beads or "gumpuckies" for spacers with the offset hooks.

When you tie a snell-knot for a hoochy....and you put the hook inside the hoochy behind a larger bead...you will notice that when you pull on it, the hook willtend to kick out of one side of the hoochy. To get around thisut a micro-bead in front of the offset eye before you put a bigger bead on. This will counteract the offset angle of the hook-eye and it will hang a lot straighter in the hoochy.
The micro-bead you use for this is really tiny....less than a sixteenth of an inch in diameter. You can get these in the better-stocked tackle shops.

On a regulat sizehoochy, generally you use TWO offset-eye salmon hooks (4/0 or 5/0), one behind the other, both snelled.
Some guys like the hooks "one up-one down" facing....I happen to like both facing down.




For spoons use an "open eye' type hook.....open eye Siwash or closed-eye Siwash. Open-eye if you are replacing a hook (you squeeze the eye shut with pliers when it is on the ring). Closed-eye if you are putting it on a split ring on a spoon.

Plugs usually use a "beaked' hook and it will be bigger. Partly because it has to be big enough so that when it flops around in the chuck it will not "hang up" saddled on the plug. These come in "open-eye" so that you can rig them yourself on the appropriate swivel or beadchain for the plug.


When I'm on the water I don't like to be messing around tying hoochies or spoons.....which is why I use the method I do. I like to maximize fishing time.

I don't want to tell a guy to butcher all his flasher hardware if he doesn't have a suitable alternative.

But that is what I would do ...and have done.




Open-eye Siwash hook:- used on spoons when you are replacing a hook to a welded ring. Also can use for hoochy but must have barrel swivel in front of it inside hoochy.
Closed -eye Siwash hook:- used on spoons when it has split ring instead of a welded ring. You just slide the hook -eye into the split ring until it's on.


Off-set eye "salmon hook".......use these for hoochies or when rigging bait. Don't use them on spoons. Always use a snell-knot for offset-eye salmon hooks.



Once you get the hang of how to tie an egg-loop snell knot it is easy. Can be done in under two minutes.


For barrel swivels.... use the plated steel ones, not the blackpainted brass ones.
Brass is not as strong as the steel ones.

 

[fish stalker]

awesome!!

thankyou!

 

[Seafever]

here is a pic of the microbead in front of the offset eye so the hoochy hangs better....
The hook is a 'salmon hook" for hoochies .
It is an offset-eye hook....it is NOT a Siwash open-eye.

 

[Seafever]

In the lower left corner of this pic you can see the diamond-shaped clip I am talkng about.
Just connect the barrelswivel on your pretied hooch or spoon to this and you're good to go...

With this setup you have two options.....you can tie the clips directly to your pretied leader and you'll have more whip action without a swivel of any kind and they are quick-change.
or....you can pretie the hoochy with a swivel and connect it to the clip.
As I said I get these clips at Pac Net and Twine and they are rated 200lbs breakstrength.

 

[Seafever]

Here is how it looks .Works great for me.

 

[fish stalker]

Ive never seen that diamond clip. Ill bet they be a rush on them now lol. I am in Vic but will try and pass threw this PNT place as Ive heard lots of good things.

Ive fished a plug for the first time yesterday. Ive read some guys cut out the bar and run a line with a bead line so if it breaks off it it will float to the top. I think it might mess up the one I have so am leaving it i think. Are you running a trailing something behind yours?

I have a pack of different size beads. For colors I guess glow, yellow or red are all ok to use? Nice knot!

 

[Seafever]

They have anywhere in Vic that sells commercial fishing gear? You could probably get those clips there.

yes....many guys cut the towbars out of a plug to get better action at slow speed.

Be aware that this could weaken the plug for deep use. Tomic will not warranty a plug that has had the towbars removed.

You can use the Tomic "Tubby" version of a plug. These are designed for slower trolling anyway. So you don't necessarily need to cut the bars from a Tubby.

Some colors of the J-Plug fish very well around these parts. The "Mongoose" pattern is good.
These work well at slow speeds. No having to cut bars.

But before you cut towbars from a plug.....(a regular Tomic plug)....try fishing it FASTER.
You can cut the welded ring off the nose of the towbar and tie line direct to towbar.
If doing this keep the knot up high on the towbar nose....what you are trying to do is present as much plug "face" against the water flow as you can. This gives it more action at slow speed because there is more resistance on the face of the plug.
Most of the time the only place you need a really slow waggling plug is if you are fishing returning spawners close to an estuary or natal river. Like Alberni Inlet right now for example or the Tyee Pool in Campbell River.

No flasher for plugs........run them right off the main and if you have room without other boats around:- run them 40 to 80ft back of the downrigger line. I've heard of guys going as low as ten feet off the d/rigger line....but generally you want to be at least 40ft to start with.

If you pretie your plugs with hook,leader and whatnot:- don't run a swivel right near the front of the plug. Put about ten feet of leader, then use barrel swivel and connect it to the main.

Some of the really small plugs can actually be used behind a flasher if you like. The three inch is o.k. but there is too much drag on big plugs to use with a flasher.

Go six or seven feet on the leader though.

#602 Tomic is a good all-round plug.

Plug hooks:- generally if the plug is 5 inch,go a 6/0 beaked hook. If it's 6 inch plug, go a 7/0 hook, if it's a 7 inch plug, go an 8/0 hook etc. Commercial tackle shops seem to have better selection of plug hooks than most sportshops.

I take a plug hook with an open eye .....and then crimp it on to the barrel swivel that comes with a regular plug.
Crimp the barb off, file the hook point. Tie to main to fish.

If it is a plug with towbars removed:- take the hook,crimp it on to the right size barrel swivel,then use a clinch knot to tie leader to hook. Then add some some small spacer beads to line in front of hook (2 or 3). Put line through body of plug. Run ten feet of leader and put abarrel swivel on line. When fishing, connect barrel swivel to main and good to go. use 30 or 40 lb test for ten foot leader.

Contrary to popular b*llsh*t the barrel swivel ten feet up the leader does not mess up the action of the plug.....but it very well could if that swivel is down anywhere near the face of the plug.


Beads... I generally stick to white glow beads for hoochies no matter what color the hoochy is. That said:- if the hoochy is a green hoochy I will sometimes use combo green beads and glow beads. Whatever color the hoochy is I'll use that color plus glowbeads or just straight glowbeads.

On plugs I use glow beads for the spacer beads if I cut the bar off.



Interestingly:- in the old days all Tomic plugs came with a welded nose ring. Now they come in "sport" version as well, which has towbar but no welded ring.

Fish the plug first with the welded ring on. If that doesn't work,cut the welded ring off and fish it with line tied up high on the nose towbar.
If it still doesn't catch fish....then as a last resort pull the towbars.



By the way:- Plugs are like hoochies...you buy a pack of ten and maybe one of them is a "killer".
Some plugs brand new will not catch jack crap....even though they look identical to another just like it. Funny how it works....

 

[Seafever]

Here's a #602 Tomic with the towbars removed and ten feet of leader on it.

Nothing complicated.....

 

[Seafever]

Here's two hoochies tied in regular fashion....I pulled them apart so you can see everything inside.

One is a Green Splatterback...the other is a J-82 North Pacific.

Both killers in these V.I. waters.

I added a glow squirt to the inside of the J-82.....I fish deep around here in places.
But it doesn't HAVE to have the glow squirt inside it.

Some guys like one hook facing up, one facing down. I like mine both facing down.
They are both on 40lb. test leader.

 

[Decks]

Seafever's posts in this thread are going up in my garage for reference. As a relatively new saltwater fisherman (~5 years), some of these tips are very difficult to learn if you don't have someone to teach you first hand.

Thanks a bunch, except I now have about 20 hoochies and flashers to re-rig

 

[fish stalker]

no kidding! this should be a sticky. there are a heck of a lot of lurkers on this site who im sure are really appreciating this wether they say so or not.
Ill post up a pick of one of the lure I made up. I have no idea if it catches fish yet but it looks cool! a white uv splatter back hootchie with a green spinner in front Thanks Seafever I owe ya a beer! The pics are great for a visual person like me.

 

[Seafever]

Thanks...but there is more than one way to do these things......this is just what works for me.

For knots:- (too hard to explain in words on how to tie)

I recommend you get a copy of "The Little Fishing Knot Bible" by Harry Nilsson.

Still available in tackle shops and online. Shirt-pocket size so can put in tackle box.

This book is the best one I've seen for dozens of fishing knots. easy diagrams .

I started with this book and I still use it today.


There are some videos on the net too, on how to tie knots.

 

[Dave S]

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

This is how I learned a bunch of knots. Really helped to go through the steps as I tied them. My favorite knot is a palomar. Use this for most things.....swivels, trebles, siwash, spoons.

 

[Enniberg]

Seafever, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge in such a thorough way! I always learn something from this kind of threads.

johan

 

[Enniberg]

There was a thread on this topic a couple of years ago where Jim, Sushihunter posted pictures of how he ties hoochies using a single hook and swivel. I saved the pictures and kept a print out in my tackle box. This is how I have been doing it ever since. Works great.

Thanks Jim!

 

[chiroken]

thanks seafever for the time for your posts!