Tuna Chartering Off Shore...Legal or Not With 5 G Ton Licence?

[Chasin' Dreams]

I've recently taken my SVOP, SDV-BS, ROC-M, etc and will be chartering guests this year sportsfishing, whale watching, sight seeing, etc.

I am considering doing some Tuna charters as I have requests for this already but I was told by my instructor for the SVOP that fishing out there off shore where we go for Tuna is not covered by our up to 5 Ton commercial licenses; as they are only good for up to 25 miles off shore and within 100 miles of safe refuge class 2 waters. I was told in order to charter guests outside of the 25 miles off shore, while being in the regs of D.O.T, (as you know Tuna on average are anywhere from 30 to 80 miles off shore at times) I would need to be certified for the 150 G Ton class which is **** loads of schooling/courses etc extending up to 4 to 6 months of full time classes.

Just wondering what other guys are doing about this and if they realize they aren't covered for this kind of chartering or what? Are guys taking customers out there risking something happens and having their insurance be void if they do so?

I just sent an email to my insurance underwriter to inquire about these specific questions so I'll update what she replies back to me on this thread.

 

[Charter Tofino]

There’s few threads on it. General consensus was that it’s a bit of a grey area. Some insurance companies will claim to give commercial coverage offshore (up to 100-150nm) but TC has 25 nm restriction on 5 ton.

 

[Charter Tofino]

The logistics of the fishery make scheduled charters a nightmare. Water/weather etc need to line up. The last few years the fishery has been slow and unpredictable.


Here’s some good info.

https://www.sportfishingbc.com/foru...ding-insurance-and-limitations-re-tuna.55644/

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

There’s few threads on it. General consensus was that it’s a bit of a grey area. Some insurance companies will claim to give commercial coverage offshore (up to 100-150nm) but TC has 25 nm restriction on 5 ton.

Ya, I know my policy covers me out to 100nm currently but I doubt that would be valid if D.O.T regs were not being followed. That's in my opinion though so that's why I'm trying to get something in writing. Fortunately my underwriter is a family friend so she did just reply to me already and told me she will get me a concrete "in writing" answer tomorrow. It has been my life experiance that any insurer will do whatever they can to get out of paying a claim. Skirting D.O.T requirements would surely fall into that category of an "out" for the insurance company I would think.

 

[Charter Tofino]

Ya, I know my policy covers me out to 100nm currently but I doubt that would be valid if D.O.T regs were not being followed. That's in my opinion though so that's why I'm trying to get something in writing. Fortunately my underwriter is a family friend so she did just reply to me already and told me she will get me a concrete "in writing" answer tomorrow. It has been my life experiance that any insurer will do whatever they can to get out of paying a claim. Skirting D.O.T requirements would surely fall into that category of an "out" for the insurance company I would think.

Agreed. It would be easy for them to bail on you if things ever went sideways.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Thanks for the link to the other thread discussing this same matter. Interesting Kelly that that thread you linked the guys are all mentioning a 60 GTon license but when I discussed this subject with two SVOP instructors (one of them over 30 years worth of on water/training etc..) both told me to qualify to all the requirements to be off shore that far with passengers that a 150 Ton certification would be needed. I'll also see if I can get further clarification why they stated the 150 over the 60 Ton. Well that would be out of the question for me for now anyway lol.

So hopefully I can get something in writing from the underwriter stating I would be covered even though Transport Canada says nope.

Ya the logistics of the Tuna fishery for chartering is for sure a huge issue. The couple groups that I have interested for this year are all self employed and can drop what they are doing at any time to go on a fishing trip so that's why I'm seriously considering it. Pretty much impossible to tell a customer they can go out there and fish for Tuna at a specific time and date of the year that's for sure. We are at mother natures mercy in that regard.

 

[Redfisher]

It might be worth your while to contact guys out of Westport as they are chartering offshore and have same navigational requirements.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

It might be worth your while to contact guys out of Westport as they are chartering offshore and have same navigational requirements.

Their home port is USA so even though we have international maritime laws we all follow, each government has the right to add, omit or alter laws/regs in their own waters. So not too sure if they can help with that unless we were both in international boundaries.. for us leaving, fishing in, and returning to Canadian waters I think it's best to get answers from the rule makers over here. If my insurance company puts something in writing for me then I'll be happy with that. If not it will be "guests" not "passengers" I will be taking to the Tuna grounds. I'll update this thread with the replies the underwriter gives me tomorrow.

 

[Redfisher]

Insurance companies are international too so they do have a say. That being said I totally agree with your thinking. What will Transport Canada require so you don't get hung out to dry in the event of an accident?

When I updated my ticket last year I was thinking of tuna too and it seemed like a 60 ton ticket was the best bet but at Safer Oceans school in Nanaimo they were only speculating. To get a 60 ton ticket you need sea time on bigger boats. Very few "guides" have this kind of sea time recently and if you had it ...are you likely to possibly go tuna chartering?

 

[Gong Show]

It's all about insurance.
Declare to them what tickets you have and what you are planning on doing.
If they take your money after that, you have a fighting chance if things go sideways.

 

[redram99]

Real slippery slope here.

You are trying to operate outside of your regulating bodies rules but hoping your insurance company will turn a blind eye to you breaking the rules.
Not likely going to happen. Knowingly breaking the rules is usually excluded by insurance company.
Not really fair to throw the insurance companies under the bus. Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

Here is the reply from the underwriter: (I have removed any names of individuals and companies)

"Hey ___, I discussed your plan with respect to chartering, with ___. Tuna fishing offshore is a stretch, as a safety plan would be required and amount of charters etc. He can set up a charter policy for salmon fishing guiding etc, no problem but the offshore fishing, could be another whole process and liability issues, should you plan to take clients. When offshore, there is an expectation to never go out alone. I’d suggest, since ____ at ____ is your broker, you provide a written plan for amount of charters, safety plan and areas of operation etc. So she can then discuss with _____. As we are underwriters, we are supposed to go through the brokers. _____ May email you directly or go through ______, after the initial contact."

Seems like too much of a grey area for me so I'll just continue on doing non commercial trips with friends for the off shore Tuna.

Here's to hoping that warm water makes its way closer to shore! Or may have to plan a trip to the North Island to see if we can find them up there inside our cert boundary.

 

[profisher]

Lets put it this way...if any customer who lives through or dies as a result of a professional skipper doing something they knew they weren't supposed to be doing and the regulatory body (TC) mandated that...that or those individual(s)or a family member will likely sue your butt. And the insurance company won't have your back.

 

[Oly1]

Lets put it this way...if any customer who lives through or dies as a result of a professional skipper doing something they knew they weren't supposed to be doing and the regulatory body (TC) mandated that...that or those individual(s)or a family member will likely sue your butt. And the insurance company won't have your back.

That’s probably why you don’t see any charters and or guides doing tuna charters in BC. US must have different rules for their charter guys.

Oly

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

For those of you that go out off shore for Tuna with friends (not commercial charters), you may want to check with your insurance broker to make sure you are covered where you are fishing.

My underwriter, when upgrading my policy a couple years ago sent me an attachment map showing where I am insured. It is the white area on the map. It is around 100 nautical miles off the shore of WC VCI. The nav limit coverage is called TW(Trading Warranty)#3. The broadest coverage the underwriter offers.

 

[wildmanyeah]

For those of you that go out off shore for Tuna with friends (not commercial charters), you may want to check with your insurance broker to make sure you are covered where you are fishing.

My underwriter, when upgrading my policy a couple years ago sent me an attachment map showing where I am insured. It is the white area on the map. It is around 100 nautical miles off the shore of WC VCI. The nav limit coverage is called TW(Trading Warranty)#3. The broadest coverage the underwriter offers.
View attachment 44690

How much liability does it cover?

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

How much liability does it cover?

Liability coverage is dependent on what you wanna pay and the specific policy you get written up by your broker. The TW#3 is the area covered in the specific policy I had agreed on with my broker and underwriter.
I'd also advise to make sure when you are discussing this stuff with a broker than you ask to speak to their specific marine agent cause they don't all know what they are talking about when it comes to specifics about marine policies but they all want to take your money. If you are not completely satisfied with what the broker knows then ask them who the underwriter is and contact the person who specializes in those types of policies.
Also don't just agree on the first $ amount they tell you. Ask them to put the policy out for quotes to all the available underwriters. When I did that the range of prices from the different underwriters was very surprising. As well as the price difference and range of $ for deductibles also can vary greatly.

Here's a list of the underwriters I had the broker put the policy out to for quotes:
1. Coast:
2. Beacon:
3. Cowan:
4. Intact:
5. Pacific Marine:
6. Special Risk Insurance Managers:

 

[Chasin' Dreams]

How much liability does it cover?

You may find brokers wanting to quote on 1 million to 2 million as standard liability amounts but if you regularly have a couple or a few guests on your boat you many want to get a higher liability amount. Especially if you are going to charter and will have multiple guests on board at most times. $ just goes up the more liability coverage you want.

 

[Derby]

2 milliion is enough.. there is a cap of i believe of 250,000 per person on a claim.... i usually run 3 mill

 

[Birdsnest]

Not that I would apply this to tuna charters but not many sport vessels meet the DOT requirements generally anyways. Particularly when looking at vessels with enclosed cabins. DOT requirements are very difficult to achieve in this scenario and pretty much no manufacturer of pleasure craft meet the standard. The only boats commonly achieving the standard is coast guard and RCMP/DFO vessels. And the price tag of those boats clearly reflects so. What would be a $15000o boat quickly becomes $300000 with all the specialized windows etc.
If you ever have a chance to take a look at some of these government boats you can see they are quite different from any standard production boats.
My 2 cents.
I have heard that a 60 t ticket is required for guiding tuna.

Ya! been some tough years as of late. June is near. Just about time to start watching charts and weather.