Trailer Improvement

[gungadin]

Here is the issue. Trailer was imported from the US about 10-15 years ago. It has a gvw rating of 6000lbs. Last year we put surge disc brakes on both axles to bring it up to BC specs. Brakes work great and without a doubt are a lot safer on the road, but the tyres and hubs get quite warm:- too warm in my opinion.

Today we got the boat and trailer weighed, full tank of fuel etc. 2750kgs, 50kgs before the limit for surge brakes. The tyres on it are 13 inch and rated at 1360lbs each, that effectivly lowers the gvw to 2470kg. The trailer is overloaded when fully loaded.

We do not want to buy a new trailer as this one is in excellent shape and is rated to carry the boat. For me the lower cost solution is to replace the springs with longer ones to accommodate 14 or 15 inch tyres, with a much higher load rating. The trailer is used for two trips to Gold River (200k) and to the nearby harbour where it is moored (10k).

I know that we would need new tyres, wheels fenders, springs snd hardware, but before starting, l would like to hear of any pitfalls or omissions l may have not considered.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[bigdogeh]

I would think 14" tires should suffice. or maybe remain at 13" but go to a higher load range tire? there are loadrange d tires in 13" that will increase your tire load capacity another 750+ lbs....(375 x2)
https://www.etrailer.com/Tires-and-Wheels/Kenda/AM1ST79.html
I used to trailer a 26' boat 6,500# boat with 14" tires with no problems..., mind you it was a dual axle trailer. going to 15" tires means you will have to back into the water quite a bit more to launch due to increased height. my opinion (only) for a boat your size is that 13 is a bit small, 14" just right, and 15" just a bit too big. if you could get away with fewer mods by going to 14" tires, that might be the best way to go.

the heat could be from dragging brakes or brakes setup too tight. or even wheel bearings that are set too tight. just some thoughts.
when going downhill with surge brakes you will also generate alot of heat. if you were to convert to electric (or eoh, but at greater expense) that would eliminate or reduce that source of heat.

 

[AlK]

As far as the heat goes, I always inflate the trailer tires to the maximum shown on the tire. On my previous boat trailer, I went from 13" to 14" wheels to address the overloading. In order to get adequate clearance for the 14" tires, I had the trailer axle modified, by having a piece of solid steel (appro 2x2x4") welded on the top side of each axle where the springs sit. This also meant I had to get longer U-bolts to fastened the springs to the axle. By doing this I had sufficient clearance for the 14" tires.

Here are some pictures.

 

[gungadin]

I would think 14" tires should suffice. or maybe remain at 13" but go to a higher load range tire? there are loadrange d tires in 13" that will increase your tire load capacity another 750+ lbs....(375 x2)
https://www.etrailer.com/Tires-and-Wheels/Kenda/AM1ST79.html
I used to trailer a 26' boat 6,500# boat with 14" tires with no problems..., mind you it was a dual axle trailer. going to 15" tires means you will have to back into the water quite a bit more to launch due to increased height. my opinion (only) for a boat your size is that 13 is a bit small, 14" just right, and 15" just a bit too big. if you could get away with fewer mods by going to 14" tires, that might be the best way to go.

the heat could be from dragging brakes or brakes setup too tight. or even wheel bearings that are set too tight. just some thoughts.

It's odd because the hubs are only warm while the tyres are hot, leading me to believe that the brakes are fine but that the tyres are not adequate for the job. Part of the problem is the boat is rear heavy (l think) because the rear tyres and hubs are always hotter then the front. l don't know how much of a difference launching with 15 inch tyres would make, it slides of with minimal effort now. The 13in. Tyres are about 24in in dia. and the fifteen are about 28in in diameter, which would be about 2in in increased height. Of bigger concern would be the gap between the front and rear tyres at 6 and 9 o'clock, the present gap is about 4.5 inches, so there would only be about .5in. Between the tyres. With 14in. tyres with a diameter in the 26in range the gap would be closer to 2in. I think that is enough but with longer springs we could use the 15in tyres or really be sure about the 14in.
when going downhill with surge brakes you will also generate alot of heat. if you were to convert to electric (or eoh, but at greater expense) that would eliminate or reduce that source of heat.

 

[gungadin]

As far as the heat goes, I always inflate the trailer tires to the maximum shown on the tire. On my previous boat trailer, I went from 13" to 14" wheels to address the overloading. In order to get adequate clearance for the 14" tires, I had the trailer axle modified, by having a piece of solid steel (appro 2x2x4") welded on the top side of each axle where the springs sit. This also meant I had to get longer U-bolts to fastened the springs to the axle. By doing this I had sufficient clearance for the 14" tires.

Here are some pictures.

That is thinking outside the box for sure. Did you do that so you were able to keep your same fenders?

 

[AlK]

Yes that is why I did it

 

[Mike_R]

Have you considered buying a trailer that meets your needs then selling the one you have. This would be my first option if I was in this situation.

 

[gungadin]

Have you considered buying a trailer that meets your needs then selling the one you have. This would be my first option if I was in this situation.

Yes we have and if the boat was trailered all over the island it would be a viable option. Because ir only gets about 250kilometers on it a year the decision to modify the trailer appears to be the preferred route, certainly cost wise. A new trailer, all in with decent disc brakes, electric winch, is approaching 6000+$. Where new springs, fenders, 15in. wheels and 1800lb capacity tyres with hardware is 1500-2000 $; and new 14in wheels and1700lb rated tyres with the axle blocks as suggested by AlK would be less then 1200 $.

 

[Reel Gone]

Before you do any mod's it would be best to check the axle weight rating to make sure it's capacity is actually high enough for the boat. Just sayin

 

[Mike_R]

Yes we have and if the boat was trailered all over the island it would be a viable option. Because ir only gets about 250kilometers on it a year the decision to modify the trailer appears to be the preferred route, certainly cost wise. A new trailer, all in with decent disc brakes, electric winch, is approaching 6000+$. Where new springs, fenders, 15in. wheels and 1800lb capacity tyres with hardware is 1500-2000 $; and new 14in wheels and1700lb rated tyres with the axle blocks as suggested by AlK would be less then 1200 $.

A new trailer may be $6000 but you don't necessarily have to buy new, also you would recoup some of your costs by selling the old trailer.

 

[gungadin]

Before you do any mod's it would be best to check the axle weight rating to make sure it's capacity is actually high enough for the boat. Just sayin

Axles are 3500lb each, so no problem there.

 

[gungadin]

A new trailer may be $6000 but you don't necessarily have to buy new, also you would recoup some of your costs by selling the old trailer.

We did consider a used trailer, but as we know what we are dealing with with this one, we decided to either modify the one we have or buy new. As the trailer gets limited use, the difference between the cost of a new one compared to modifying the trailer, made the decision to modify the trailer our course of action. We won't start on the trailer until the boat is in the water, next month or so. Right now we are researching the various options. Either method shouldn't take more then a few days to complete, provided of course all the correct parts are at hand.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I had the trailer axle modified, by having a piece of solid steel (appro 2x2x4") welded on the top side of each axle where the springs sit. This also meant I had to get longer U-bolts to fastened the springs to the axle. By doing this I had sufficient clearance for the 14" tires.

I think that is great way to avoid having to replace a bunch of components. I do see one downside though. I've had metal welded to a galvanized trailer in the past. It will end up causing rust on the trailer in the area that is welded. Just letting you know that will compromise your nice galvanized finish. It will start rusting in the area of the weld unless you are constantly on it with a fresh coat of paint. I'm not saying that rusting should stop you from using the shimming method on the Axel. I'm just giving you the heads up, so you know that it may have consequences you didn't know about.

Let us know how your project goes.

 

[gungadin]

After blowing up the picture of AlK's axle we came to the conclusion that they are not actually welded to the axle. It appears that he has welded a piece of 2" ×1/4" flat bar to a piece of 2x2 solid bar. We think that he drilled a shallow hole in the centre of the 2x2 and after drilling a hole in the centre of the flat bar and welding in a piece of small round stock, welded the two together, ending up eith a 2 1/4" block with a hole on the top to accept the the centre bolt on the spring and a protrusion on the bottom to fit the hole in the axle, where the centre bolt would normally go. The longer "U"bolts tighten everything down.
At this point this is how we plan on doing it.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Sorry, I was viewing the post on my phone and I couldn't see the welding location. That sounds like a great way to solve your problem.

 

[spring fever]

I may be a off -base here but aren't we talking about legalities PLUS the actual maintenance of this trailer? I have modified my trailer over the years much the same as you intend- BUT the plate on my trailer says 6500 lbs and if I get pulled over that is what the hi-way patrol will go on usually plus 10%. HOW are you going to get your gvwr on your trailer upgraded?

 

[gungadin]

I may be a off -base here but aren't we talking about legalities PLUS the actual maintenance of this trailer? I have modified my trailer over the years much the same as you intend- BUT the plate on my trailer says 6500 lbs and if I get pulled over that is what the hi-way patrol will go on usually plus 10%. HOW are you going to get your gvwr on your trailer upgraded?

You are certainly not off base, and your insight is appreciated.

We do not intend to get the GVW of 6000lbs changed. When we weighed it, there was everything in it that we could possibly need, fuel, tools, food, fishing gear, everything including a huge cooler that we filled with water. With all this on board we were about 62 lbs over the GVW. We should be able to reduce the weight of the boat considerably by storing some of the equipment in the pickup. Our concern centred around the tyres, they effectively lower the GVW (because of their load rating) to about 5,500lbs. By the simple expedient of installing tyres with a higher rating we will exceed the trailer rating of 6000lbs by a 1000lbs. We don't intend on loading it beyond the GVW, it is more of a safety margin we wanted built in. Did not know sbout the 10% allowance though.

 

[bigdogeh]

sounds like his trailer is under rated (just barely) for his load when he's fully loaded, but when looking at the tires the tires are actually rated at less (also just barely) then what they should be to make the 6000 lb trailer rating work... It doesn't make sense to have a trailer rated for 16,000 lbs (2750 kg) when the tires will only handle 2,740 kg. I can't see any harm in upping the rating of the tires as long as the axles will also handle the weight rating. sounds like he's running 3500 lb axles so should be good there. I think his main concern is he is right on the edge of the trailer rating and he's trying to make it work. as long as he shifts a few items from the boat into the truck (maybe the spare trailer tire? )he'll prob be OK I would think...
I remember when first checking out my trailer (16,000 lb gvwr) the tires rating when all (6) combined are about 2000 lbs over the rating. (close to 18,000 lbs) so his tires are obviously right on the edge of the (his) trailer rating. but I guess another thing to take into consideration is that when he ups the trailer tire size that will add a bit of increased weight also. may have to just run MT (fuel) to maintain legality. and haul the fish cooler back in the truck as well...

6000 lbs is 2721.5 Kg and he said he weighed the boat, trailer, fuel fully loaded and it weighed in at 2750kgs. so he's about 28.5 kg or about 60 lbs over... to be legal he could prob haul MT of fuel or throw a few items in the box of his towing vehicle.

 

[bigdogeh]

hehe, you beat me to it gungadin but seems we were thinking along the same lines...

 

[spring fever]

Just to keep this thread going-It is my belief that the plate weight or gvw is the weight of the load not the weight of the load plus trailer. The overage of 10%
I mentioned earlier is not a written down rule or even a rule but what MOST hi-way guys will let you away with before they make you sit. On a further note- On a 6500gvw trailer from road runner the only difference between the 8500gvw and 6500 gvw is the inner bearing is the same size as the outer bearing on the 8500 vs a smaller outer bearing on the 6500. Both inners are the same on the 85K and 65K. Tires may be different. The trailer frame itself is rated for 12000lbs.
I would be interested to see if one could upgrade the GVR if everything has been upgraded but I suspect you might be better off to get a new trailer