The Fish Farming Report from Global TV

[Kisinana]

For anyone who missed it on the news. This is the video on Fish farms and young salmon. The last 15 seconds are the most interesting double standard that the Salmon farming industry fails to mention.
I think it is time to make the government accountable to the people of the province.

http://video.canada.com/Global_VideoContentHTML.aspx?23169&vc=1

 

[KoneZone]

This government agent Pat Bell needs some serious pressure put upon him by the citizens. I am just a Yank and have little or no right to throw stones so its up to you neighbors up north. To put farmed fish ahead of Pinks and Silvers oop’s Coho Salmon is insane. Now is the time to organize and stand together. Throw the Bum’s out of office Eh! The Sport fisherman has great power, but it is only effective if used properly. This would be a great place to start. Time to get crackin and do some wackin and stackin![V] Start a petition or something Organize.

 

[Little Hawk]

Howdy.

Kisin...

Thanks for posting that news clip. It underscores the reason why I (and MANY others) are so concerned about, and vehemently opposed to - fish-farming: our governments postion on, and their unbridled support of this filthy, ecologically destructive industry.

In 2002, while doing research for a - fish farming - article I wrote for BC Outdoors Magazine, our government was proposing to lift the moratorium on expansion of the industry. Virtually everyone cried "foul" - First Nations/Sportfishermen/Commercial fisherman/the scientific community - yet the 'ban' was lifted and the industry (then, 95% owned/controlled by Norway/Holland) was allowed to grow.

They (DFO and the industry) said it would be good for us.

They said:

- 'the fish won't escape' ... they escaped en'mass.
- 'the escaped (Atlantics) won't survive' ... they survived!
- 'they can't reproduce in the wild' ... they reproduced!
- 'fish-farming will create thousands and thousands of jobs in BC'...
(In 2002, my research concluded that each of the then 110 or so active farms on our coast - created 8 to 10 full-time jobs directly or indirectly subsequent to its operation.)

You do the math.

In 2002 - BC had over 100/active farms on our Coast; Puget Sound had about 8, and the trend was then leaning to phasing them out. Yet, 85% of BC-produced farm/fish are destined south of the boarder to feed our American neighbours.</u>

From the outset of my involvement in scrutinising this business of growing fish to feed 'America' - even if I set aside all the sound scientific evidence/reasoning in support of abolishing fish-farming (in its current state) - there has remained, hanging over my head like an ominous black cloud, one searing question that today remains unanswered; Why is my Government in bed with this industry?</u>

They know damn-well:

- that our own mighty rivers like the Skeena, the Fraser and countless others can grow enough 'WILD' fish - naturally - to feed millions upon millions of people, bears, eagles, and countless other critters who've depended on the return of the salmon every year since time began.

- that the direct economic-benefit to our Province of a 'Sport-caught' salmon is two or three times higher</u> than a 'farmed-fish'.

- that each one these fish-farms is puking the daily/equivalent amount of 'raw-sewage' into our pristine coastal waters as does the city of Victoria into the Juan de Fuca.

***

It's easy for the industry and proponent's of the industry to label people like me as 'radical' or 'just another tree-hugging environmentalist'. I am neither. I'm just a guy who began researching a subject for a paper I wrote in a 1st.-year English class. The more I learned, the more appalled I became. I am also (first and foremost) a sport-fisherman and I want to do what I can to ensure that there are plenty of 'WILD' fish around for my kids and my Grandchildren.

I wish I knew about this forum during the time I was involved in investigating this horrible business; it would have been an excellent conduit to share information with my fellow 'Sporties'. There were times when I felt terribly 'alone' and could have used more support.

Sincerely,
Terry Anderson

 

[sven]

You guys make no sense, All you talk about is saving the wild salmon, shut down fish farming so the wild fish will live?? If you shut it down the wild fish will get raped!! think about it. I could give a list of things that you can read and you'll say I am using the same old proaganda as before, but that is all you critics are doing.

Yes fish farming has its issues, and I agree that there has to be opposition to keep big companys "honest", But all I keep hearing is the same bull**** from you people. Alexandra MOrton is NOT a biologist!! She never went to university, she studyed under her husband and decided to call her self a biologist, Yes it is sad to see a seal or sealion traped in a net, These companys do what they can to prevent that.I dont know if you have drivin the north island lately, everyday there is a new dead deer, ive seen bears, as well as plenty of elk dead on the road. Maybe we should right a story on the impact of cars and trucks and ban them as well!!!!

I am a fisherman and it would be a horrible thought that I couldnt go fishing everyday, but you take away fish farms, and put the preesure on are low wild stocks and see how fast its gone. The ocean has been raped many years before fish farming, the actual demise is when they started to put hydrolic pumps and motors on boats and they could set bigger nets , more and faster.

this is a lost case with you guys, dont be so closed minded listen to the other side of the story cause there is always 2

 

[Riptide2]

Sven, I don't think the debate is about shutting down fish farms, rather it is that fish farms need to be moved from pens to ponds or tanks. As the Global story pointed out, one company with operations both here and in Norway have already gone to a closed farming system in Norway. I have talked with a DFO biologist about this issue and they will tell you our government is ignoring their own biologist... just as they have in the past with rockfish among other fisheries and we all know how well our rockfish stocks are doing.

BTW you don’t have to be a biologist to carry out a marine study I have been involved in several fisheries studies as my dad is a well known marine biologist and more times than not, it is about statistics and the methodology employed for the study which do not require a PHD.

Research conducted by Martin Krkosek, a PhD student at the University of Alberta's Centre for Mathematical Biology, shows that mortality rates for juvenile wild salmon in the Broughton range from nine to 95 per cent. The closer they swim to the net-pens, the higher the chances they'll catch some germ or parasite.
What's more, unconsumed feed contains chemicals and antibiotics that leak into the sea. Excrement and other pollutants build up on the ocean floor.

Farm sea lice plague wild salmon - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4391711.stm

Sven keep your blinders on there buddy.

 

[sven]

Im not your buddy

 

[KoneZone]

WAAAAAAAAAA! Don't blame the fish farms. WAAAAAAAAAAA! The overfishing is the problem. The tactic is to move the attention away from the problem. It's POLITICAL! Salmon grow in fresh water you know. Set up a 500 acre plot and grow away. Put systems in place that will stop release into the WILD! There are several rivers in Alaska where these fish have been found. They are escaping and it needs to stop. Anyone that denies it either works for is supported by the industry or perhaps is just a useful IDIOT. There is always a slick talking salesman that will put a fancy bow on it a wrap it up real nice. Bottom line is there is a problem. How much can the fishery take? STAND UP and call you rep or whatever you call them.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Hey Sven wake up and smell the coffee. Fish farming is not bad and it is here to stay, BUT it must move into closed systems or onto the land. Just like many other industries it has to adapt to reduce its negative environmental impact.

 

[Kisinana]

Sven
You seem to be mighty worked up over the issue. I can see you probably work in some capacity for fish farming and do not believe for one minute I want you to lose your livelihood. At the same time you tell us we are close minded. Look at the research on fish farms objectively and you will see they place farms on all major migratory routes for wild salmon. Even if mortality was as low as 50 per cent as juvenile fish pass farms, this is too high.
Your comments on dead animals on the road, take a moment and think that through the same way. If you killed 50 per cent of deer elk and bears crossing a certain section of road something would be done to address the problem. Whether it be fencing or as in some cases roads have been rerouted because of migratory paths.
Look at the action that the Norwegian government is taking on fish farm companies, the same companies that are here in B.C. and now that the issues here are getting hot for them they are moving to Chile.
I do see that as a food source there is a need for farm raised fish but not at the cost of wild stocks. Look at the damage they have done to estuaries in Norway and Scotland. Because they are raising so many fish in a confined area, antibiotics use is as high as 10 per cent of the total intake of weight. Colorants are used to give the flesh that salmon color. You have to use chemicals to combat infestations of lice and other problems. Some of this comes back out as waste products.
I can say if you look at most farming even say wheat or corn they use chemicals to combat infestations and disease.
The main thing I am against is that these things are being introduced into the enviroment and fish farming directly into the ocean.
I know it would be more expensive on land but at least that way waste products can be contained.
If you want to debate this issue show some statistics to back statements made. I can give you links to sites where I get my information and some of it even is from the fish farms themselves not just government or independent researchers.
I too do not have a degree as a biologist but I use the internet, and I have talked to people who worked for fish farms (who are both for and against)and enviromentalists to learn both sides of the issue.

 

[Barbender]

quote:Research conducted by Martin Krkosek, a PhD student at the University of Alberta's Centre for Mathematical Biology,

You anti aquaculture guys kill me. First of all Martin Krkosek is student and you use his word as gospel truth? Yet when actual scientist with years of experience counter what he says you scream foul. You use Andrea Morton as the main reason for your arguments and she lives on a boat with a bunch of cats. But if Andrea says it's true then it is good enough for you. Imagine if the Aquaculture industry used a waitress at White Spot as their spokesperson what you guys would be screaming. Most of the arguments you present here is based on old and flawed data. For example the highest concentration of sea lice ever in the Broughton archipelego was in 1973, 20 years before salmon farms. Of course Andrea does not have a answer for that one. The highest ever reported run of Pinks in the Broughton was in 2000. Imagine that. Also in 2001 was the highest ever recorded odd year return...of course no one wants to say that because it might burst the anti aquaculture bubble.
Listen I am not saying aquaculture is perfect. No industry is. However if you thik that farmed salmon is the reason for declining wild returns then you are mistaken. Logging alone destroyed more salmon than anything. Throw in commerical fishing, pollution, and habitat destruction and voila. I think people who want to point the finger only at aquacutlture are way off base and being irresponsible. Especially when the present incorrect data and try to present fiction as absolute fact.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Farmed salmon is not THE reason for declining salmon stocks, but it is one of many that effect a very delicate resource. We need to control all the factors that we can to ensure they have as good a chance as possible to reproduce.

By moving pens inland, we take this variable out of the equation. The more variables we can remove the easier it is for our slow witted government to successfully manage the resource.

quote:but you take away fish farms, and put the pressure on are low wild stocks and see how fast its gone.

Even if we outlawed farms, it wouldn't have any relation on the size of the wild quotas - they are separate industries and undoubtly separate consumer groups. This is a simple fear tactic ala George bush.

it breaks down to:

If you don't let me (INSERT ACTION) then they will take away (INSERT SOMETHING THE PUBLIC LOVES) from you.


Bottom line SVEN, how about addressing a single issue that is brought up and not falling back on fear mongering?

 

[likwit]

quote:Originally posted by Barbender

quote:Research conducted by Martin Krkosek, a PhD student at the University of Alberta's Centre for Mathematical Biology,

You anti aquaculture guys kill me. First of all Martin Krkosek is student and you use his word as gospel truth? Yet when actual scientist with years of experience counter what he says you scream foul.

PhD students are scientists. Getting your doctorate requires many years of schooling, training and hard work. These PhD students are way more likely to be objective and use sound techniques than most other 'scientists' funded by whatever interest is paying them.

 

[Barbender]

quote:Bottom line SVEN, how about addressing a single issue that is brought up and not falling back on fear mongering

So only Sven is fearmongering. Interesting. I disagree with your analogy that wild will not suffer if farmed fish is removed. Global demand for salmon is growing weekly due to fear about beef and poultry all over the world. China alone is now consuming more salmon than ever before. Even if current rates never changed, and farmed salmon was removed you can bet that every last wild fish would be removed from the sea.

 

[Barbender]

quote:These PhD students are way more likely to be objective and use sound techniques than most other 'scientists' funded by whatever interest is paying them.

Really??? Well FYI. Martin's research was funded by the David Suzuki Foundation. We all know how balanced and non partisan they are with regards to Aquaculture. Using your logic we can now erase Martin's "study" since he was obviously tainted by being funded by a organization that has a agenda. Next.....

 

[likwit]

quote:Originally posted by Barbender

quote:These PhD students are way more likely to be objective and use sound techniques than most other 'scientists' funded by whatever interest is paying them.

Really??? Well FYI. Martin's research was funded by the David Suzuki Foundation. We all know how balanced and non partisan they are with regards to Aquaculture. Using your logic we can now erase Martin's "study" since he was obviously tainted by being funded by a organization that has a agenda. Next.....

When will people wake up. So Martin was funded by a group that whose agenda is protecting the environment. The big difference is that these people have no reason to lie about this stuff. On the otherhand, businesses have a huge financial motivation to do just that.

Time and time again business tries to discredit the science that states that what they are profiting from is detrimental to our society. As an example, the cigarette industry was notoriously great at providing data that supported the claim that smoking wasn't bad for you. The same type of nay-sayers we here now were saying the same thing about every study that came out saying the opposite.

Think to yourself about who has more to benefit by shaping and tailoring 'science' to meet their needs? People worried about the earth? or people worried about shareholders? And if both are lying, who would you rather support. [?]

 

[sven]

BIG BUSINESS???? what do you think the david suzuki foundation is??? charity???

 

[Red Monster]

Glad to see there are lots of folks out there who are bright enough to call the fish farmers on their BS tactics. Here's one that nobody has mentioned today. One tactic the farmer lovers like to use is the old "change the subject" routine, as in let's talk about road kill, or talk about other problems that threaten wild salmon, or talk about anything other than the real issue. Afterall, many things in this world are far worse than fish farms, right? [)] Such smoke screens are quite lame, and only the weak-minded would use or accept such BS.

 

[Rum Buddies]

SVEN, would you care to address any real issues?

1.)Pollution (animal waste)
2.)antibiotic pollution
3.)escapement
4.)disease
5.)sea lice


gotta love the spirit of a lobbyist though

 

[fishman69er]

should i, no, not quite yet, but one thing i have to say is, i sure hope all of you opposed to the fish farms feel the same way about the chicken, beef and pork farms, because these industries, produce far more of everything that poppa just listed, (ok mabye not sealice, but i am sure they have things just as bad),oh, but i guess i am just using the old 'change the subject' routine,
just like ya say poppa, gotta love the extremists

 

[clearwaterB]

Why is it that government keeps getting int the way of science? I feel for you, my fishing brothers to the North. Our government has done the same thing here on the Mighty Colombia river and its 7, yes 7 dams. Our scientists, even our court system want to breach the lower 4 dams on the Snake river, but the power companies who are in the politians back pockets have all of the (pardon the pun) power. Our stocks of wild Salmon and Steelhead are in the toilet, we do NOT have any sustainable wild fish because of this. Save your wild fish, once you add too many hatchery fish its all over, the gene pool is done. Back to the farming debate, it is one of many issues the wild fish must face. But it is one that is in our control, MOVE THEM TO DRY LAND INTO HOLDING POOLS. Ocean conditions, seals, lack of bait fish also account into this, but for the time being we cannot do anything about them. Canadian fishermen, do not let what happened to our wild fish because of arrogent politians, happen to yours. FIGHT ON!! Elect the people that will fight for you, If there are not the right people running, RUN YOURSELF!!

Tight Lines
ClearwaterB