Starting my Main requires me to turn off GPS system, why??

[pescador]

Ok, so I wired up two new Garmin 720's in my 228 GW. They work fine, no issue. I've wired them to the primary power source under my helm which is pretty well where everything in the boat runs to. What i am finding is that when I shut down the main and run of the kicker, the minute I go to re-fire the main it seems to knock down the two GPS screens, and, my stereo system. I've gotten into the habit now of turning off these systems before I re start the main. I don't think should have to do this, any idea how I can solve. I'm running 2003 225 HP Yamaha. It starts very quickly and i'm not cranking it over for any more than a few seconds. Is it simple a question of the engine requiring all the juice in the system? Anyone else experience this? Solutions??

 

[Fish-Hunter]

My best guess would be that by cranking the main over is dropping the voltage available to the electronics. Lots of electronics, especially chart plotters require a minumum amount of voltage to operate, and if the voltage available goes below the minimum for the unit, it will shut down. I have experienced this on our boat a few times after running the kicker for a long period of time and running the electric down rigger, trap puller, stereo, chart plotter, radar, and if the kicker has not been able to put enough juice back into the battery, it will still start the main fine, but while starting the main, the voltage drops below the minimum and shuts down the chart plotter.

We now run a dual battery system, charge them both up on the ride to the fishing grounds, switch to either battery 1 or 2 while fishing (and using the gadgets), and then to the other battery when starting the main back up, once the main is running switch back to both to charge both batteries while cruising on the main. This has for us stopped the chartplotter from shutting down.

Hope that this makes sense and helps out.

Cheers, FH.

 

[GDW]

Fish hunter has got it you have too much draw on the battery. You probably have two on board right now to solve your problem wire your starter to its own battery.

 

[Foxsea]

... What i am finding is that when I shut down the main and run of the kicker, the minute I go to re-fire the main it seems to knock down the two GPS screens, and, my stereo system. Anyone else experience this? Solutions??

As others have said, the starters create a voltage drop that shuts down the electronics. Blue Sea Systems make an Automatic Charging Relay that isolates the start battery from the electronics automatically. It works! No more gps shut-down.

http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/387

 

[Birdsnest]

Try starting your main with the kicker running.

 

[ReelSlim]

Fish hunter has got it you have too much draw on the battery. You probably have two on board right now to solve your problem wire your starter to its own battery.

X3 on the too much draw on your battery. However I can't imagine having that much draw on the battery unless you are running a heater or TV to make the starter take out your electronics. That's a huge power blip? Definitely do what GDW has suggested.....but I would check out your battery and possibly your wiring if it's pulling the battery down that much.

 

[pescador]

Ok, good input (Fishhunter/et al). So, if I switch from the battery I am on to the other one, that may solve the problem as the voltage drop may not be as aggressive is what I'm hearing. It is ok to switch batteries while an engine is on right? I know you can't turn it to "off", but, switch from battery 1 to battery two passing "both" isn't a risk or vise a versa?
Next question, is there a risk of damaging electronics when they shut down due to voltage drop?
I do always leave the kicker running while I fire up the Main. My kicker is a Yam 8 HP High Thrust which does of course have an alternator. Foxsea, thanks for suggestion. I'm going to look at that device..

 

[scotth]

I have the same problem. I find that if the battery switch is set to "both" the sounder will stay on
Scott

 

[Revenge]

Its hard on the kickers charging system to start the main (if there on the same battery) when its running. Same as jumping a car . If the car thats doing the jumping is running you can cook the alt !

 

[trendsetter]

Ok, good input (Fishhunter/et al). So, if I switch from the battery I am on to the other one, that may solve the problem as the voltage drop may not be as aggressive is what I'm hearing. It is ok to switch batteries while an engine is on right? I know you can't turn it to "off", but, switch from battery 1 to battery two passing "both" isn't a risk or vise a versa?
Next question, is there a risk of damaging electronics when they shut down due to voltage drop?
I do always leave the kicker running while I fire up the Main. My kicker is a Yam 8 HP High Thrust which does of course have an alternator. Foxsea, thanks for suggestion. I'm going to look at that device..

Most marine battery switches are "make-before-break" type switches. Meaning that the switch makes the connection to the second battery before breaking the connection from the first. This allows you to switch batteries while running the engine. Never switch to the off position while the motors are running.

Most electronics have a built in safety feature to shut down when voltage drops to a certain level; on some you can configure the shutoff voltage.

If you've got two batteries, as mentioned switch to battery 2 when you start trolling then back to battery 1 when you go to start the main. If this still happens when you do that then maybe you need a bigger starting battery; one that can put out enough amps to start the motor while maintaining a high enough voltage to keep your electronics running.

What size are your batteries now?

 

[pescador]

They are I think Exide batteries (green in color). Not sure of amperage, but,they are marine and likely came from Grady White. I'd say they are 5-7 years old, so, I wonder if they're holding the required amps. Maybe they are getting to end of life? I wonder if new batteries would stop the problem?

 

[TenMile]

New batteries likely will not help. Most electronics have a safety shut down feature when voltage drops below 12V. When you crank your big engine, the voltage on your batteries will momentarily drop below 12V with the big start load on them triggering your electronics to shut down.

As others have noted above, you really should rewire as you can risk harm to your electronics from a power surge at startup. All electronics on a "House" battery, and only the engines on your "Start" battery. Combine both the House and Start systems only when a charge source is present (either via your battery selector switch, a dual-bank AC battery charger or an Automatic Charge Relay (my personal recommendation)).

 

[Revenge]

Could it be that the power source that you connected to could be the accessory power ? I could be wrong but just like in your car when you turn the key it kills power to the accessories thus shutting off the sounder/gps unit. Just a thought ???

 

[wildwest]

Keep it simple..pull and clean your battery terminals and your cable to the starter motor.If no change have your battery load checked and replaced if needed.If you do all that ....and if no change check AMP load when you turn the key[starter motor]Also battery cables too thin WILL suck too much juice on longer runs on high demand starters

 

[pescador]

Revenge, good point. Not sure but I will look. I will look at wiring no 1 to start main and the other (no 2) for house funtions. Should my kicker be on the number 1 battery as well?
All connections are good and clean. Just did all that over the last month.
Ten Mile, I've heard that having your battery switch on "both" doesn't provide a good charge to either battery. Is this your view as well?

 

[TenMile]

Your alternator is putting out between 50-70A (depending on the model) so when you have the MBSS on "Both" it sees the two systems as a single battery and takes that much longer to charge. That said, both batteries will get a good charge provided they are the same type and vintage/condition.

You can run into issues when the House and Start systems are different battery types (AGM vs. Lead Acid) as each type of battery requires a different maximum voltage to become fully charged. Most Lead Acid batteries require that voltage be held at ~15V or more for a long period of time (particularly when cold) to get fully charged while AGM batteries require lower voltage (about 14.4V). Similarly if one battery is new, and the other is old, you can harm the new battery by giving it the longer charge cycle the old battery needs.

If you're looking for a good read on batteries, charging, monitoring (and solar) -- do a Google Search on HandyBob's RV Charging Puzzle. It's extremely long winded, but is a fantastic resource. You can go through the detail, or skip to the summary at the end <wink>. The link seems to be broken as I write this...

If you want maximum life out of your batteries and plan to use an MBSS or ACR to combine them. Start with 2 new battery systems of the same chemistry, get yourself a battery monitor and make sure you always keep them fully charged and topped up with water when not in use.

 

[TenMile]

Here is the article -- working now: http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/

 

[Canso]

5-7 years on your batteries is plenty, time to get new ones.
Mine are about 3 years old, now I’m noticing the low battery alarm on my GPS during cranking.
You probably have a dead cell.

 

[Bret]

I had the same problem but as my boat is commercial rated we were required to put a seperate battery on for electronics with a diode. Which means that electronic battery can charge from the common system but cannot discharge into it. It was actually an easy fix and enssure in an emergency that your electronics is always operable...

Bret

 

[Fisher Down]

As others have said, the starters create a voltage drop that shuts down the electronics. Blue Sea Systems make an Automatic Charging Relay that isolates the start battery from the electronics automatically. It works! No more gps shut-down.

http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/387

This Blue Sea system is the way to go... it stops the electrical spike to sensitive electonics during startup. Just ask Sculpin what he thinks of his.

F D