South East Alaska Chinook Catch Data

RBL

Well-Known Member
I found this kind of interesting. Some locals are wanting the Homer Alaska Winter King Derby shut down due to declining Chinook stocks locally. Well the derby made a post to assure people that they don’t need to worry as the catch data shows that very few fish are from Alaska. In fact they are almost all BC fish lol
 

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Not to be a wet blanket but if there was a chinook fishing derby in Ucluelet or Bamfield and the locals protested that the derby should be shut down to protect local chinook stocks, you can bet the derby promoters would assure the nay sayers that they need not worry as the catch data would show that a huge percentages of those chinook are heading for the Columbia River and the Salish Sea
 
One difference is that fishing in the Kachemak Bay area is outside Pacific Salmon Treaty waters ergo not considered in treaty negotiations.
 
Hilarious that the locals concerned about chinook stocks are oblivious to Alaska's hatchery ocean ranched pink salmon problem that seems to be the biggest cause of low returns and small size in chinook.
 
I’m sure Homer is full of seine-boat owners who laugh all the way to the bank with all those tax-payer subsidized hatchery pinks they catch year after year. What’s a chinook?
 
Hilarious that the locals concerned about chinook stocks are oblivious to Alaska's hatchery ocean ranched pink salmon problem that seems to be the biggest cause of low returns and small size in chinook.
You are correct mbowers on impacts from Alaska's hatchery program on other salmon species - but my understanding is that pink enhancement is a little bit more of a sockeye problem verses solely a Chinook problem:





And orcas (esp the Northern residents) are particularly good at picking out the largest Chinook:


 
lol the real message don't worry we have no chinooks stocks left in southern alaska to worry about.
 
You are correct mbowers on impacts from Alaska's hatchery program on other salmon species - but my understanding is that pink enhancement is a little bit more of a sockeye problem verses solely a Chinook problem:

It seems to be an all salmon problem because I would guess every salmon is pink sized and competes with pinks until they grow bigger. Sockeye numbers are up in Alaska but size is down so pinks are hurting the commercial value per pound of sockeye but still lots of sockeye.

https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/ye...on harvest and its,value of USD 473.8 million.

"The department states that the 2022 sockeye harvest in Alaska is the largest on record"

Unfortunately chinook numbers are down, age at maturity is down and size at given age are down from California all the way to Alaska. IMHO it has to be caused by something that is affecting the entire ocean.

Chile has invasive runs of huge chinook despite 17 times denser coverage by fish farms than BC used to have and Chile also has orcas. What it does not have is pink salmon..
 
The ocean ranching thing just seems insane. Who would think pumping an absurd amount of one thing into an eco-system would throw off the balance.....
 
The ocean ranching thing just seems insane. Who would think pumping an absurd amount of one thing into an eco-system would throw off the balance.....

they are winning it works for them, mean while there is talk in BC in cutting production we need to go full nuclear and pump out as many as we can,
 
The ocean ranching thing just seems insane. Who would think pumping an absurd amount of one thing into an eco-system would throw off the balance.....
a race to the bottom i think it is called..
 
You are correct mbowers on impacts from Alaska's hatchery program on other salmon species - but my understanding is that pink enhancement is a little bit more of a sockeye problem verses solely a Chinook problem:





And orcas (esp the Northern residents) are particularly good at picking out the largest Chinook:


Funny how science always seems to swing around to refute the ENGO crowd who continually point fingers at the BC recreational fishery as the cause for Chinook size at age decreasing due to high grading - most of the science I have read are leaning towards marine mammals north of the SRKW eating their lunch. Nature is competitive. Guess that doesn't fit the ENGO narrative tho!!
 
Funny how science always seems to swing around to refute the ENGO crowd who continually point fingers at the BC recreational fishery as the cause for Chinook size at age decreasing due to high grading - most of the science I have read are leaning towards marine mammals north of the SRKW eating their lunch. Nature is competitive. Guess that doesn't fit the ENGO narrative tho!!
Well unfortunately emotions can get in the way of rational thinking. It's called denial.

And causes are paraded out in the hopes that money will flow.

MM enthusiasts and the MM lobby (often urban-raised and w/o any experience in how the coastal ecosystem works; or in highly impacted areas if they do - and most know little about salmon) - have been long trained since youth that MMs are beautiful creatures (which they are of course, and fish as well).

But that narrative is then continued along time into the blind adoption of making MMs an untouchable iconic figurehead - if not a revered, religious figure - rather than just 1 species in a mix of a complex, interacting systems. The fact that humans constantly interact with these systems and most importantly are an integral part of these systems and management - and have been since "time immemorial" seems to be a purposely forgotten understanding of history/ecology. The analogy of religious training/dogma comes to my mind here.

And the ENGOs are a spectrum of organizations and causes. Some are very practical, knowledgeable, helpful, scientific and involved in local communities (T. Buck Suzuki, the Atlantic Salmon Federation, and the Pacific Salmon Foundation are 3 such examples) - while others are predatory, combative, and destructive - like the Sea Shepherd Society and the IFAW. Greenpeace used to be in that category, but since Watson left it - they have apologized to the remote and aboriginal communities for their historic role in the fur ban and the East Coast Harp seal campaign. As an aside - Watson has been recently ejected from SSS, as well and is currently in Vermont courts fighting his ejection.

The worst ENGOs (IMHO) are headed by predatory toxic narcissists (aka blind hero worship) that brainwash their members and financial supporters by feeding them select and misleading information - keeping members and supporters in a heightened and venerable emotional state that seems to make it difficult for them to rationalize issues. The analogy of religious training/dogma very much comes to my mind here again.

That's why it is important to interact and deconstruct those misleading, destructive narratives in a more open discussion/management process and provide actual data/science to manage stocks including harvesting of MMs as well as fish. That's why some ENGOs and their predatory toxic narcissist leaders are afraid of dissenting opinions/data/conversation - they will lose their control over their members. Blind hero worship is the opposite of responsible, consensus-based decision-making - and all great and terrible tragedies in human history have started with predatory toxic narcissists being adopted as a suitable leader.

Back to the topic at hand - getting involved with ENGOs in some capacity and being a burr under their saddle in getting accurate, current, trustworthy and relevant data/science into management discussions is a must in order to have good management decisions out the end of any process. They need to be challenged and other voices need to be heard.
 
Thanks AA, I simply could not have said it any better. We have seen some fairly egregious examples of those types of ENGO's twisting the facts to fit a narrative. So much so, that it makes me often wonder if the motivation isn't just to feed their business model, drive membership and revenues. I once looked at the financial statements of one such ENGO group that I constantly found myself sitting in meetings where everyone from their team was paid heavy hitters....so out of curiosity I looked to follow the money. Eye opening.

Sorry to take this thread off in another direction.

Back to AK interceptions - while they too are to use my earlier word...egregious, Canada did sign a 10 year Treaty. There are trade-off's, and in every deal we gave a little (WCVI Chinook to AK) to get a little (access to Southern US fish on WCVI) ...in theory. That said, it is becoming abundantly clear that Canada failed to take into consideration when implementing Chinook Mgmt Measures on the WCVI that it was allowing those treaty fish to pass through our fishery which in effect has short-changed Canada in the deal. DUMB. I think we can do better.
 
Well unfortunately emotions can get in the way of rational thinking. It's called denial.

And causes are paraded out in the hopes that money will flow.

MM enthusiasts and the MM lobby (often urban-raised and w/o any experience in how the coastal ecosystem works; or in highly impacted areas if they do - and most know little about salmon) - have been long trained since youth that MMs are beautiful creatures (which they are of course, and fish as well).

But that narrative is then continued along time into the blind adoption of making MMs an untouchable iconic figurehead - if not a revered, religious figure - rather than just 1 species in a mix of a complex, interacting systems. The fact that humans constantly interact with these systems and most importantly are an integral part of these systems and management - and have been since "time immemorial" seems to be a purposely forgotten understanding of history/ecology. The analogy of religious training/dogma comes to my mind here.

And the ENGOs are a spectrum of organizations and causes. Some are very practical, knowledgeable, helpful, scientific and involved in local communities (T. Buck Suzuki, the Atlantic Salmon Federation, and the Pacific Salmon Foundation are 3 such examples) - while others are predatory, combative, and destructive - like the Sea Shepherd Society and the IFAW. Greenpeace used to be in that category, but since Watson left it - they have apologized to the remote and aboriginal communities for their historic role in the fur ban and the East Coast Harp seal campaign. As an aside - Watson has been recently ejected from SSS, as well and is currently in Vermont courts fighting his ejection.

The worst ENGOs (IMHO) are headed by predatory toxic narcissists (aka blind hero worship) that brainwash their members and financial supporters by feeding them select and misleading information - keeping members and supporters in a heightened and venerable emotional state that seems to make it difficult for them to rationalize issues. The analogy of religious training/dogma very much comes to my mind here again.

That's why it is important to interact and deconstruct those misleading, destructive narratives in a more open discussion/management process and provide actual data/science to manage stocks including harvesting of MMs as well as fish. That's why some ENGOs and their predatory toxic narcissist leaders are afraid of dissenting opinions/data/conversation - they will lose their control over their members. Blind hero worship is the opposite of responsible, consensus-based decision-making - and all great and terrible tragedies in human history have started with predatory toxic narcissists being adopted as a suitable leader.

Back to the topic at hand - getting involved with ENGOs in some capacity and being a burr under their saddle in getting accurate, current, trustworthy and relevant data/science into management discussions is a must in order to have good management decisions out the end of any process. They need to be challenged and other voices need to be heard.
Sounds like your talking about David Suzuki foundation.
 
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