See-- no problem!!! (Ya right)
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
- Start date
GLG
Well-Known Member
Anyone know what the score in this game is?
Last I heard it was 5000 false negatives to 2000 false positives.
All I know is that the wild fish are dieing while DFO and the "market" is trying to stay alive.
Scientists like Kristi Miller, who can tell us for sure, are not allowed to seek the truth.
I sure hope our friends down south start testing wild fish as I'm not impressed with our government.
Perhaps a third party (US) could take on Millers work and find out what virus is killing our fish.
I just hope the real truth comes out before its to late.
GLG
Last I heard it was 5000 false negatives to 2000 false positives.
All I know is that the wild fish are dieing while DFO and the "market" is trying to stay alive.
Scientists like Kristi Miller, who can tell us for sure, are not allowed to seek the truth.
I sure hope our friends down south start testing wild fish as I'm not impressed with our government.
Perhaps a third party (US) could take on Millers work and find out what virus is killing our fish.
I just hope the real truth comes out before its to late.
GLG
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Wow... Damage control, at its worst! DFO sure did get that press release plastered all over the place! The actual DFO published statement can be found here:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/statement-declarations/2011/20111202-eng.htm
Let me give you my take (and hopefully everyone elses) on that press release. And, I quote directly from Canada DFO website:
“After Canada’s reputation has needlessly been put at risk over the past several weeks because of speculation and unfounded science, additional in-depth, conclusive tests, using proper and internationally recognized procedures, are now complete and we can confirm that there has never been a confirmed case of ISA in BC salmon, wild or farmed.
Please note the last portion of that statement is in bold. That is fairly ignorant and “bold” of that idiot to even make that sort of statement. The key words in the release are in fact, the ones highlighted in that bold; “never been a confirmed case of ISA in BC salmon, wild or farmed.”
All one has to do is continue reading and following the links on to this DFO website and you will find this and I do quote directly from their website and I will even highligt a couple of their own statements:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/back-fiche/2011/20111108-eng.htm
“Searching for a Unique Genetic Fingerprint
“Every virus has a unique genetic fingerprint. Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is a technique that focuses on specific portions of this fingerprint so that they may be detected and identified. Detection of this small genetic target of viral RNA constitutes a presumptive positive test result.
“The PCR is a highly sensitive test that sometimes produces false positive results; because of this, these presumptive positive samples require further confirmatory testing to ensure their validity.
“Confirmatory testing can take two forms: First, there should be an attempt to isolate the virus from host tissues using cell culture. Cell culture allows the virus to infect the cells and multiply as it would in the host fish. It is possible to have a positive PCR test and ultimately a negative cell culture result. Cell culture also requires that a minimum dose of live virus be present in the test sample and can take up to four weeks to have results from this test.
“And second, the virus needs to be properly identified and this is usually done using conventional PCR techniques to amplify larger and different portions of the viral genes which are then sequenced and compared to the unique ISA fingerprint.
“To date, no attempts to isolate the suspect ISA virus in cell culture have been successful by any laboratory; nor has any sequencing data been produced. Thus, there have been no confirmed findings of ISA in the samples.
“Tissue Quality
“There are several factors which must be considered in the testing.
“First, the nature of the PCR test requires the sample to be fresh or well preserved. Fish should be collected live, moribund, or as fresh mortalities (within 24 hours). Because both host (fish) and viral RNA degrades rapidly after death, virus detection can quickly become impossible by PCR or any other accepted test methods. Fish can be frozen to preserve the RNA, but tissue and virus degradation occurs even at -20 degrees Celsius. Storage at -70 degrees Celsius, or in a specialized storage preservative known as an “RNAlater,” is required for long term preservation.
“Second, because the virus is not distributed equally in all parts of the fish, the heart and kidney are the best organs to test. Gills can also be tested. However detection in gills indicates viral particles are in the environment. It does not mean infection of the host. Finally, sample size should be large enough for testing. A sample the size of a grain of rice allows for both PCR & molecular confirmatory tests (sequencing). Significantly larger amounts are needed for cell culture and archiving for future reference and testing.
“Because RNA degrades rapidly, an extra test, called the “reference gene assay”, is conducted on the original extract. The result of this assay indicates the level of degradation by comparing it to a well preserved sample of the same species. As mentioned, if the RNA has substantially degraded, neither a PCR nor any other approved testing method can determine the presence or absence of the virus with any degree of confidence.
It will be interesting to see if Canada now releases “their” test results to the U.S., who has been asking. Or, they will continue to deny the information as in the past?
Does the government of Canada really believe we are stupid? They need to get off their collective "butt" and start doing something rather quickly, before this turns into a "World Issue"!
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/statement-declarations/2011/20111202-eng.htm
Let me give you my take (and hopefully everyone elses) on that press release. And, I quote directly from Canada DFO website:
“After Canada’s reputation has needlessly been put at risk over the past several weeks because of speculation and unfounded science, additional in-depth, conclusive tests, using proper and internationally recognized procedures, are now complete and we can confirm that there has never been a confirmed case of ISA in BC salmon, wild or farmed.
Please note the last portion of that statement is in bold. That is fairly ignorant and “bold” of that idiot to even make that sort of statement. The key words in the release are in fact, the ones highlighted in that bold; “never been a confirmed case of ISA in BC salmon, wild or farmed.”
All one has to do is continue reading and following the links on to this DFO website and you will find this and I do quote directly from their website and I will even highligt a couple of their own statements:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/back-fiche/2011/20111108-eng.htm
“Searching for a Unique Genetic Fingerprint
“Every virus has a unique genetic fingerprint. Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is a technique that focuses on specific portions of this fingerprint so that they may be detected and identified. Detection of this small genetic target of viral RNA constitutes a presumptive positive test result.
“The PCR is a highly sensitive test that sometimes produces false positive results; because of this, these presumptive positive samples require further confirmatory testing to ensure their validity.
“Confirmatory testing can take two forms: First, there should be an attempt to isolate the virus from host tissues using cell culture. Cell culture allows the virus to infect the cells and multiply as it would in the host fish. It is possible to have a positive PCR test and ultimately a negative cell culture result. Cell culture also requires that a minimum dose of live virus be present in the test sample and can take up to four weeks to have results from this test.
“And second, the virus needs to be properly identified and this is usually done using conventional PCR techniques to amplify larger and different portions of the viral genes which are then sequenced and compared to the unique ISA fingerprint.
“To date, no attempts to isolate the suspect ISA virus in cell culture have been successful by any laboratory; nor has any sequencing data been produced. Thus, there have been no confirmed findings of ISA in the samples.
“Tissue Quality
“There are several factors which must be considered in the testing.
“First, the nature of the PCR test requires the sample to be fresh or well preserved. Fish should be collected live, moribund, or as fresh mortalities (within 24 hours). Because both host (fish) and viral RNA degrades rapidly after death, virus detection can quickly become impossible by PCR or any other accepted test methods. Fish can be frozen to preserve the RNA, but tissue and virus degradation occurs even at -20 degrees Celsius. Storage at -70 degrees Celsius, or in a specialized storage preservative known as an “RNAlater,” is required for long term preservation.
“Second, because the virus is not distributed equally in all parts of the fish, the heart and kidney are the best organs to test. Gills can also be tested. However detection in gills indicates viral particles are in the environment. It does not mean infection of the host. Finally, sample size should be large enough for testing. A sample the size of a grain of rice allows for both PCR & molecular confirmatory tests (sequencing). Significantly larger amounts are needed for cell culture and archiving for future reference and testing.
“Because RNA degrades rapidly, an extra test, called the “reference gene assay”, is conducted on the original extract. The result of this assay indicates the level of degradation by comparing it to a well preserved sample of the same species. As mentioned, if the RNA has substantially degraded, neither a PCR nor any other approved testing method can determine the presence or absence of the virus with any degree of confidence.
It will be interesting to see if Canada now releases “their” test results to the U.S., who has been asking. Or, they will continue to deny the information as in the past?
Does the government of Canada really believe we are stupid? They need to get off their collective "butt" and start doing something rather quickly, before this turns into a "World Issue"!
Last edited by a moderator:
GLG
Well-Known Member
[h=1]True colors are green[/h]
By Ruby Berry, Courier-Islander November 30, 2011
Recent reports of the presence of the deadly ISA virus in BC wild salmon seem to have alarmed everyone except those meant to be taking care of the wild salmon.
Rather than taking immediate measures to determine the extent of this threat, DFO and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency leapt to discredit the findings and assure international markets that all is well in Canadian waters. Unfortunately, their claim rests on inconclusive evidence and degraded samples.
Instead of launching an emergency investigation into this potential disaster, the federal government has announced a $1 million grant to the Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance for international advertising.
It appears that the health of BC waters, and the wild salmon is not the priority of the federal government after all.
Ruby Berry Georgia Strait Alliance
© Copyright (c) Postmedia News
By Ruby Berry, Courier-Islander November 30, 2011
Recent reports of the presence of the deadly ISA virus in BC wild salmon seem to have alarmed everyone except those meant to be taking care of the wild salmon.
Rather than taking immediate measures to determine the extent of this threat, DFO and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency leapt to discredit the findings and assure international markets that all is well in Canadian waters. Unfortunately, their claim rests on inconclusive evidence and degraded samples.
Instead of launching an emergency investigation into this potential disaster, the federal government has announced a $1 million grant to the Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance for international advertising.
It appears that the health of BC waters, and the wild salmon is not the priority of the federal government after all.
Ruby Berry Georgia Strait Alliance
© Copyright (c) Postmedia News
GLG
Well-Known Member
Go Girl
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2011/12/media-on-isa-virus-cover-up.html
12/03/2011
Media on ISA virus cover up
The Cohen Commission's rules of confidentiality prevent me from talking about certain documents, but I am forwarding recent media that is in the public domain and not subject to confidentiality. This needs your response. I don't know what ISA virus is doing in BC. Was it always here? Is the avirulent strain here? Did the Norwegian companies import it? Why are farm salmon dying of the lesions of ISA virus? Are salmon farms amplifying it, allowing it to mutate and infecting wild salmon?
What I do know is government has not said anything that reassures me that they are taking the steps to answer these questions. ISA virus was not lethal to salmon in Norway until salmon feedlots gave it the conditions that caused it to become deadly. Increased virulence occurs wherever genetically similar animals are crowded into the feedlots. The unique thing about salmon feedlots is that they pour all their untreated waste, including mutating viruses, directly into most of the wild salmon of the south coast of BC because that is where government let them put their farms.
If the leaked document really says 100% of one run of Fraser sockeye tested positive for ISA virus, we have two very big problems. One, Justice Cohen instructed DFO to provide all documents relevant to the health of the Fraser sockeye and this was not one of them. Two it means we are repeatedly finding this virus in wild salmon stocks that are mysteriously vanishing, such as Rivers Inlet sockeye and salmon dying of unknown causes just before spawning.
If it is true that Fisheries and Oceans withheld information about a virus known to have spread everywhere Atlantic salmon are being farmed I think:
1 - DFO should be suspended from managing salmon farms
2 - a volunteer board of scientists, First Nations and others with deep commitment to maintaining wild salmon should step forward to oversee the ISA virus response
3 - Every hatchery should contact me about how they can test for ISA virus, because I know all those volunteers do not want to amplify this virus. I know you have been told not to give me samples, but I can help you do this yourself. Why wouldn't you want to know? Checking for disease in dead wild salmon is not a federal offense.
Whether or not a criminal investigation should be initiated will have to wait until we hear testimony at the Cohen Commission's special hearings on ISA virus on December 15, 16, 19.
I want to thank ALL of you for your comments and donations and to the dedicated volunteers out in freezing weather who continue to take the highest quality possible samples from the salmon that have died after and during spawning in rivers throughout BC. We are working with two of the best ISA virus labs in the world and my deepest thanks to them as well as they are suffering verbal attack. Those researchers will be appearing at the Cohen Commission special ISA virus emergency hearings. They are traveling very long distances and I am deeply thankful.
Before you look at the ISA virus articles you should also know the industry is failing on the world market and firing people because they cannot afford to raise as many Atlantic salmon. We need to ask if they are a viable industry worth the risk?
Canada kept detection of salmon virus secret
Did Canada cover up deadly salmon virus? Report suggests yes
Unpublished DFO report finds 100% of Cultus Lake sockeye found with deadly salmon virus
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2011/12/media-on-isa-virus-cover-up.html
12/03/2011
Media on ISA virus cover up
The Cohen Commission's rules of confidentiality prevent me from talking about certain documents, but I am forwarding recent media that is in the public domain and not subject to confidentiality. This needs your response. I don't know what ISA virus is doing in BC. Was it always here? Is the avirulent strain here? Did the Norwegian companies import it? Why are farm salmon dying of the lesions of ISA virus? Are salmon farms amplifying it, allowing it to mutate and infecting wild salmon?
What I do know is government has not said anything that reassures me that they are taking the steps to answer these questions. ISA virus was not lethal to salmon in Norway until salmon feedlots gave it the conditions that caused it to become deadly. Increased virulence occurs wherever genetically similar animals are crowded into the feedlots. The unique thing about salmon feedlots is that they pour all their untreated waste, including mutating viruses, directly into most of the wild salmon of the south coast of BC because that is where government let them put their farms.
If the leaked document really says 100% of one run of Fraser sockeye tested positive for ISA virus, we have two very big problems. One, Justice Cohen instructed DFO to provide all documents relevant to the health of the Fraser sockeye and this was not one of them. Two it means we are repeatedly finding this virus in wild salmon stocks that are mysteriously vanishing, such as Rivers Inlet sockeye and salmon dying of unknown causes just before spawning.
If it is true that Fisheries and Oceans withheld information about a virus known to have spread everywhere Atlantic salmon are being farmed I think:
1 - DFO should be suspended from managing salmon farms
2 - a volunteer board of scientists, First Nations and others with deep commitment to maintaining wild salmon should step forward to oversee the ISA virus response
3 - Every hatchery should contact me about how they can test for ISA virus, because I know all those volunteers do not want to amplify this virus. I know you have been told not to give me samples, but I can help you do this yourself. Why wouldn't you want to know? Checking for disease in dead wild salmon is not a federal offense.
Whether or not a criminal investigation should be initiated will have to wait until we hear testimony at the Cohen Commission's special hearings on ISA virus on December 15, 16, 19.
I want to thank ALL of you for your comments and donations and to the dedicated volunteers out in freezing weather who continue to take the highest quality possible samples from the salmon that have died after and during spawning in rivers throughout BC. We are working with two of the best ISA virus labs in the world and my deepest thanks to them as well as they are suffering verbal attack. Those researchers will be appearing at the Cohen Commission special ISA virus emergency hearings. They are traveling very long distances and I am deeply thankful.
Before you look at the ISA virus articles you should also know the industry is failing on the world market and firing people because they cannot afford to raise as many Atlantic salmon. We need to ask if they are a viable industry worth the risk?
Canada kept detection of salmon virus secret
Did Canada cover up deadly salmon virus? Report suggests yes
Unpublished DFO report finds 100% of Cultus Lake sockeye found with deadly salmon virus
GLG
Well-Known Member
Well lets see if the public is buying this line (problem what problem, no problem here) from this industry.
The fastest way I can think of is to look at the share price of the biggest player.
Looks like the "market" see it in another way.
My question would be who is going to pay for this mess if they go belly up?
For those that don't read these charts often here is the cold hard facts.
If you invested $7000 dollars in this company early this year it would now be worth a little over $2500 today. You could sell now and take a loss or you could wait, stick you head in the sand and hope that DFO could somehow boosts the share value by dismissing ISA here in BC. If it goes badly for DFO and ISA is confirmed here in BC, well the stock will be worth pennies. Remember what happened with Nortel when it was found to be cheating with the books? Same same for this company.
GLG
The fastest way I can think of is to look at the share price of the biggest player.
Looks like the "market" see it in another way.
My question would be who is going to pay for this mess if they go belly up?
For those that don't read these charts often here is the cold hard facts.
If you invested $7000 dollars in this company early this year it would now be worth a little over $2500 today. You could sell now and take a loss or you could wait, stick you head in the sand and hope that DFO could somehow boosts the share value by dismissing ISA here in BC. If it goes badly for DFO and ISA is confirmed here in BC, well the stock will be worth pennies. Remember what happened with Nortel when it was found to be cheating with the books? Same same for this company.
GLG
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