Sea Lice and Fraser Sockeye — Be Afraid!

[Dave H]

Did sea-lice exist in the Broughton area before salmon farming arrived?
Yes?
No?

Were there 10 to 20 million adult salmon living in netpens year round in the same area back then?
Yes?
No?


Are there now millions of adult salmon living there year round?

Yes?
No?

Will sea lice infest net pen caged farm salmon?

Yes?
No?


Will those same sea lice then regenerate themselves given they are on a nice fat host and all?

Yes?
No?

Would those larval sea lice then leave their parents and seek out a host?
Yes?
No?

Would millions of 1 1/2 to 3 inch long juvenile salmon be able to host some of those young sea lice?

Yes?
No?

Does Alexandra Morton have nine published papers on the subject?

Yes?
No?

Do any of the DFO scientists have any papers published like Ms. Morton does?

Yes?
No?

When the papers presented by Alex to the "scientists" of the Pacific Salmon Forum were found to be flawless, after having been described under oath by one of the world's leading experts on sea lice and salmon as being "Impeccable," then I think it's safe to presume that her science is valid.
As well, the situation is so very very simple to understand and grasp that even my neighbour's five year old daughter was able to answer the above questions and understand the basic biology and physics that exist.

Apparently you can't and see only a big plot by some nefarious Alaskan fishermen who somehow have managed to convince someone to donate millions of dollars to huge groups all designed to kill salmon farming.

Aside from the pure idiocy of that and most of the other uttterings from people like you, I'd really like to know what you hope to accomplish by coming onto this discussion board and posting the crap you do.
Do you think some innocent non fishermen/women types will fumble their way onto this site and you can peddle your crap to them?
I'm betting that the majority of people who use this site understand the problem and wish, as I do, that the industry would simply acknowledge the problem and work with the governments to find sites that won't create the problem that currently exists.
I mean look at a map for goodness sakes.
Why in the name of anything would you site that number of farms at an obvious pinch point on the coast?
Stupid stupid stupid but great for the farmers as access to processing and workers is much easier where they are at now.

Screw it....I'm giving up.

I'm not wasting one more breath on the likes of you obvious "plants" on this board.

But just so you know, my wife works in the industry and I've been following it closely since it first arrived enmasse to the Sechelt area.
WE all know what happened there and why they are where they are at now.

And it will irk me til I die that we stupid apathetic self-absorbed idiot Canadians sat back and let a few multi-millionaie foreigners wipe out our wild stocks......for a few more dollars and a couple thousand jobs.


Take care.

 

[handee]

Dave h ,

you'd prefer to have an american billionaire whose published papers have been panned by the experts and whose dire predictions never come true wipe out an industry that relieves pressure on the wild stock in an effort to increase the market share of her american fish farmer cousins from alaska?

What about all the published papers that totally disagree with Mortons? And if you believe that she , with her bachelor of arts degree in whale music,actually wrote them then you probably believe that the best way to save the wild salmon is by eating them.

Thanks sockeye fry, there's way more than that available- but these guys can only handle the truth in small doses. they have been duped hook, line and sinker by good ol' american know-how.

Don't feel bad about being duped its not your fault that the corporate enviros lie to keep the funding coming in and the media only prints sensational headlines. For every Morton theirs 10 experts who actually are scientists that know she's a fake. But real science doesnt fit into catchy headlines.

But as a sportsfisher you must wonder why these kooks who are supposedly spending millions to save the wild salmon are buddy buddy with those that kill 10 million wild salmon a year (fishermen). kinda funny bedmates wouldnt you say?

 

[handee]

im a joke eh? try this for a laugh:

google: "alexandra morton barabra marx hubbard scientology L ron Hubbard"

yup if you want to talk about american BILLIONaires trying to wipe out canadian industry then you have them right there.

you see ms mortons little secret is that she has been marketting herself as a poor little single mother scientist from echo bay trying to save the wild salmon. fighting the big bad foreign fish farms.

BULL@##$%

shes an american rich kid with a degree in whale music and major connections in the corporate enviro world. doors open for her because grampa was a billionaire toy manufacturer (remember the game "operation" or those little green army men?). dad is the founder of scientology (yup, l Ron Hubbard himself) and mom is a celebrity in the world of the rich- she owns the production companies which supply lazy media with all those tear jerker Ms morton movies.


who cares if the pink salmon keep coming back year after despite her claims of imminent extinction, Ms Morton has enough access to power and money she can convince the public otherwise. fish farmers are the perfect scapegoat for a 100 years of over logging, overmining and of course over fishing. and they are the perfect vehicle for becoming a celebrity and a pretend scientist.

Shes making her parents proud im sure. Americans love to spend US money "cleaning up" canada-they get the glory without without the enemies back home. oh and they get to sell more alaskan farm salmon which makes them even more popular back home in the USA. Everybody but the Canadian farmers and the Canadian wild salmon win.

You too ,with enough cash and US contacts, can convince people to save the wild salmon by eating them (or at least eating farm fish from alaska and pretending they are wild).


pS if you think Im being mean you havent seen the vitriole this US billionaire scientist-wannabe has fired at Order of Canada and world fisheries expert Dr. Richard Beamish who probably earns less in a year than mommy morton's junior butler. When he points out the error of her conclusions in a peer reviewed published paper her response is along the lines of: you're a big fat liar- and she says it publicly and in writing. she got a mere slap on the wrist for that one after mumbling an apology- esteemed fisheries scientist that she is. Dr Beamish doesnt have a juggernaut of power and money to get his science splashed across the media- press kits cost money so the truth stays out of the public eye.

 

[sockeyefry]

Boy oh Boy Concerned what an intelligent and worth while post

Guess the truth hurts

 

[spring time]

hey handee at least she is trying to do something about the salmon and then why did millions of pinks go missing in the broughton in 03 or 04

 

[Nimo]

Agentaqua's debate with Sockeye Fry ended very conclusively. The net pens and possibly the industry have got to go. These fishfarmer's posts have not added anything for quite a while now, and are now sliding. Handee is not as good at hiding the industry's desperation as Sockeye once was.

All that is left is the tear down of the pens, let's not waste any more time.

 

[handee]

quote:Originally posted by spring time

hey handee at least she is trying to do something about the salmon and then why did millions of pinks go missing in the broughton in 03 or 04

whats she trying to do? shut down an industry. wonderful, thank you alex we didnt need those 4000 jobs. we dont all have Boston billionaire mommies to fall back on.

the low pink returns in 03 and 04 occurred all up and down the coast. pink returns have been fluctuating wildly-its what they always do, fluctuate. have you ever noticed she is SILENT on the issue of all the record breaking pink salmon returns that occurred since salmon farmong started?what caused them? her dire predictions for 05 06 and 07 have all NOT come true.

the only way she can make herself appear right is by cherry picking which rivers she analyzes. in her last peer reviewed and panned and published computer model study she ignored the Glendale river because it has a fish ladder (irrelevant).

she has made no case that the pinks are in trouble OR that it has anything to do with fish farms.

pink populations fluctuate wildly everywhere- the lows of 03 and 04 have been repeated all through the history of the Broughton runs and all along the Pacific rim- what she calls "crashes" are NORMAL.

What about all the places from here to Alaska where the pinks have "crashed" (ie experienced their normall recurring lows) and there was not a fish farm in sight?

Ask her what "caused" the biggest pink runs of all time in the Broughton in 99 and 01? Did the fish farms "cause" all the record breakingly good runs or just the low runs? How is THAT possible?

 

[agentaqua]

Handee,

It's getting tiring reading your slander and sometimes unresearched comments. Seems most everyone else on this forum agrees.

Instead of using the BC Salmon Growers Assn PR trick of trying to attack the messenger (i.e. Morton, Krkosek, etc.) - for a change - why not debate the science?

If you look back on the interchange I had with Sockeyefry - we pretty much dissected it. Nimo mentions this on this posting. I see you posted at the end of that discussion. Guess your never read the thread through? Read the whole 20 pages or so at:

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8847

Barbender brought-up nearly identical postings to yours - and he was answered, as well.

I answered him by stating:

"It's okay for any group (NGO, industry, DFO, etc.) to fund any science. The litmus test of whether the science is reliable - is a peer-review process - something that the NGOs have performed far superior on, than industry. The science is in, Barbender - and open net-cage technology has serious population-level consequences on adjacent wild salmon stocks. This has been proven the world over. Review the peer-reviewed science - not the news releases from the salmon farming industry."

Also, you never answered my questions to you on this thread.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Hey you guys why don't you stop all this useless back and forth arguing! It is obvious that each camp has research to back up their viewpoint and you just endlessly throw facts, figures and insults back and forth to no avail.

I say more power to fish farming, let the industry live long and prosper in closed, containment systems!

This way there will little doubt and argument that fish farms pollute and harm wild salmon. The fish farm industry will need to change like many other resource industries that have impacted the environment and modify it's processes to reduce any harmful impacts. Now is time for this industry to change with the times to end this endless debate. That's my 2 bits

 

[rln]

quote:Originally posted by Whole in the Water

Hey you guys why don't you stop all this useless back and forth arguing! It is obvious that each camp has research to back up their viewpoint and you just endlessly throw facts, figures and insults back and forth to no avail.

I say more power to fish farming, let the industry live long and prosper in closed, containment systems!

This way there will little doubt and argument that fish farms pollute and harm wild salmon. The fish farm industry will need to change like many other resource industries that have impacted the environment and modify it's processes to reduce any harmful impacts. Now is time for this industry to change with the times to end this endless debate. That's my 2 bits

this is what most want except the fish farmers.

 

[sockeyefry]

RLN,
Actually it has only been the fish farmers who have tried these technologies. I haven't yet seen an ENGO put their millions of media$$$ into trying to find solutions.