Power Consumption

[Charlie]

Just thought I'd share this.

I don't think everyone understands just how many amperes a typical boat uses. This is a chart of a typical power usage (based on my equipment), when a boat is running with minimal equipment; as you are trolling, and if by some stupid chance everything is turned on, or kicks on all at once, which should never happen.

And, yes! My boat does use more than what is listed! [:0]

 

[The Fish Assassin]

How much stuff do you actually need on while trolling? Maybe a GPS/sounder combo, a VHF, and that's about it other than the downriggers. If you running everything possible I could see the batteries draining, but for what you actually need there shouldn't be a problem. I even have a 400W converter hooked up to my batteries to run TV's and such. Unless I do something silly like leave the key on or something I seem to always have pretty fresh batteries. Oh ya my main has a habit of throwing altenator belts as well, thats why I keep a spare battery fully charged at all times.

Take only what you need.

 

[spring time]

3/4 of that stuff is intermitted use and only on for a few minutes and even your troll sage your numbers are if those downriggers are in use every second

 

[Brisco]

Charlie, you must be retired.(and have bags of money)

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by spring time

3/4 of that stuff is intermitted use and only on for a few minutes and even your troll sage your numbers are if those downriggers are in use every second

Nope! It is all based on minimum useage! Look at the troll again... Everything, is running! Again, It's all running. If you are running three downriggers... I believe "most" of the time, one is in use and that is what it is based on! The only other thing listed is a fridge, and you're right turn it off? But, as listed, it is based on two gps/sounders running at minimum, so if you only have one, adust. [?]

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Brisco

Charlie, you must be retired.(and have bags of money)

Don't know about the bags of money!
But, I do have a nice boat! [8D]

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

How much stuff do you actually need on while trolling? Maybe a GPS/sounder combo, a VHF, and that's about it other than the downriggers. If you running everything possible I could see the batteries draining, but for what you actually need there shouldn't be a problem. I even have a 400W converter hooked up to my batteries to run TV's and such. Unless I do something silly like leave the key on or something I seem to always have pretty fresh batteries. Oh ya my main has a habit of throwing altenator belts as well, thats why I keep a spare battery fully charged at all times.

Take only what you need.

I quess the question should be, "How much "stuff" you are running. I know my power consuption and I know how much charge my engines are producing and at the different rpms! Do You??

As rigged as soon as I start my engines, with my Refrigerators running ... I am using maximum of 24.07362319 amps. Best case, a minimum of 18 amps! Turn the refrigerators off... 4.07362319 amps! So, turn the refrigerators off and everything sounds good, but as soon as you start using those downriggers? It depends on how many times you hit that "up/down" switch [:0]

At an idle the engine produces 17 amps [:0]

That is the reason for this post. Do you really know the amps you are using?

PS... you need to really Google why you shouldn't run your switch in the "both" position! And, if you get a 1750 Watt "inverter" you can at least run a coffee pot! [:0][:0][:0]

 

[scott craven]

Might be a silly question, but if you are running a kicker with a
charging system, it should look after the power drain as long as the
the battery is isolated with a switch ?
Secondary (cranking) battery should also be charging with no usage

The biggest problem would be operating all electrics while anchored.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by r.s craven

Might be a silly question, but if you are running a kicker with a charging system, it should look after the power drain as long as the the battery is isolated with a switch ?
Secondary (cranking) battery should also be charging with no usage

The biggest problem would be operating all electrics while anchored.

Hmmm....I don't think your "kicker" can keep up? Depends on what you are running, but here is an example of 9.9 Honda?


Specifications - Honda 9.9HP BF10DKSH
Type: 9hp, 4-Stroke, 2-Cylinder, SOHC
Displacement: 222 cc (13.5 cubic inches)
Bore and Stroke: 58 x 42 mm (2.30 x 1.65 inches)
Full Throttle RPM Range: 5000-6000 RPM
HP Rating @ Propshaft: 9.9HP @ 5500 RPM
Induction Scavenging: SOHC
Valves per Cylinder: 2
Fuel Delivery: Single Venturi with Auto Start Enrichment
Fuel Type: Unleaded Gasoline (87 octane)
Oil Type: SAE 10W-30 or SAE 10W-40
Lubrication: Wet Sump
Starting System: Manual Start (pull cord)
Alternator Output: 12V 76W 6A</u>

Notice the "Alernator Output"? That would be "6A"? 6 Amps going into a battery, using how many Amps? And, charging what battery/batteries, and running what equipement? You bet you need to isolate your starting battery. AND, I know you have had to switch to that battery to start the engine! [:I]

The kicker can keep up with the gps and vhf (approximately 2.8 amps),but if you have anything else running or as soon as you hit and start using a downrigger or two... it is draining the battery! To what extend? Depends on how much you are using the downriggers! Will it charge, you bet... at least approximately 3 Amps, at the most??

 

[spring time]

I run a gps/sonar vhf stereo mp3 player and two downriggers and bilge pumps and my yammi high thrust is more than enough and they say the high thrust has a bigger altenator too

 

[The Fish Assassin]

Typically, batteries are measured at a constant discharge rate Vs capacity. So if you place a higher drain on a battery that may consume total capacity in say 10 hours, the total Amp Hour capacity measure will be reduced. In theory of course, the battery should be able to handle a 1 Amp load for 120 hours, a 2 Amp load for 60 hours (2A x 60h = 120Ah etc) but as mentioned above, high current loads reduces capacity faster, so total up your expected Ah rating of all your devices you plan to hook up to the battery and get a rough idea of how long the battery may run them for before you decide on a specific capacity

Take only what you need.

 

[profisher]

Guess thats why there are more Yami 9.9's out there than Honda's. 14amps output from the Yami

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

Guess thats why there are more Yami 9.9's out there than Honda's. 14amps output from the Yami

Hmmm... You might want to check on that?
The Yamaha High Thrust T9.9 is what I had as a "kicker" on my last boat and is what really started me in looking at the amount of charge versus amount of useage. If memory serves me right that engine produces 6 amps charge at WOT? [:0]

 

[TenMile]

The Yammi T8 has a 6amp alternator. And as a guy who got caught out last year off Renfrew by making the stupid mistake of forgetting to switch batteries from "Both" to "2" and drained both the starter and house system, I appreciate Charlie's advice. I ended up having to run back in from East Point on the kicker (thankfully, not from the Bank), and my kicker did not top up battery 1 enough to start the main engine even after 1 hour of running at full throttle.

After learning that lesson here's what I did:

1. Added a Blue Seas ACR (automatic charge relay). This system automatically isolates the house and starter battery, but combines them when the alternator (or AC charger) kicks in so that both batteries are topped up. IMHO this is a must-have system for anyone who fishes off-shore. It also has a switch that allows you to combine both batteries for emergency starting should your starter battery fail or get old.

2. I make 100% sure that my starter and house battery were completely isolated from one another. The previous owner had some funky wiring going everywhere with over 16 direct connections made to both battery terminals (no fuse block). Starter battery does nothing but start the engine, and provide power to the rear bilge and nothing else (so there isn't any accidental switch left on to drain it).

3. I looked at carrying a Motomaster Eliminator (emergency boost) but opted to install a 3rd battery that I already owned. I used the old 1, 2, All Guest switch so that I can join this 3rd battery to the House, or the Starter as needed.

PS: The house battery got drained the previous night as we were anchored out running lights, electronics, inverters etc... On the run to the fishing grounds in the morning, I switched the system to the Starter battery, started the boat, then switched the system to "Both" to charge both batteries. The run to the fishing grounds was only 15 minutes (not nearly enough to charge the depleted house). After the kicker got started, I forgot to switch from "Both" to "2" and so both batteries equalized. Wet and foggy day so running GPS, Radar and Defrost killed both batteries pretty quickly and the drain was much higher than the 6amps put out by the kicker.

TenMile
&lt;'((((&gt;&lt;

 

[Charlie]

That is what I am talking about!

Many of my trips are extended in which I do not have access to external power. Over the years, I have become very conscious of the state of my batteries. I constantly monitor the amount of amperes I am using, versus the charge.

When I am trolling at an idle with one engine and no downriggers working, the engine is producing 17 amps of charge. The way the boat is rigged it is using a minimum of 18-20 amps and a maximum of 24 amps, depending on how often the refrigerators are cycling on and off. Therefore, right off the bat (best condition), I use more than the engine is producing. Now, when I start using the downriggers? The amount of amps used is in direct proportion with how often those "up/down" buttons are hit! Some days not very much, some days a lot. Am I watching that… you bet! On a day trip it is not a concern, as I just plug into shore power when I get back in, but on extended trips with no shore power? On those trips, a lot of time, I leave both engines running and have both of them charging the battery in use. In doing that I now have additional 17 amps going into that battery, which gives me about a 10 amp charge. Or, if I continue to run on just one engine, I turn everything I don't need off! When I am done trolling, if I am running both engines to one battery, I have to remember to switch the battery back, to prevent an overcharging situation. If you leave both engines charging one battery you can create an overcharge, which will damage the battery, so you can't forget to switch the battery back!

Now after I anchor, the first thing I do is turn off the, refrigerator, freezer, and my #1 battery (saving it as my starting battery). Normally if I watch what I am doing, even on short runs and a lot of trolling, my house bank gets enough charge that I seldom have to use the generator!

 

[Island Fish Lifter]

Definately lessons learned the hard way..

Fill the dam tub!

 

[Island Fish Lifter]

Or you can do like I do and watch my voltmeter.

Fill the dam tub!

 

[Charlie]

I have 5 voltmeters (3 analog and 2 digital) and I am not yet convinced anyone can really tell the current state of a battery using a voltmeter! When I am anchored, I have ran my house bank down to as low as 9.5 volts. Which is enough power to run my lights and a radio and that is about it! My inverter takes a minimum of 10 volts and it won't run an electric coffee pot, when the batteries are that low even with the engines running. The coffee pot pulls 15 amps!

BTW... the digital voltmeters are far superior to the analog, as the digitals will show volts in tenths, which if you are attempting to rely on a reading for the state of your battery system is very important!

Now, to calculate the remaining power stored in a battery, you would have to start with what total capacity rating of the battery system is supposed to be, then subtract the power used and add that back in the charging capacity. That would give you an approximate idea of the power stored... and this is a very crude way. The batteries not being charged will draw down in a non-linear way, so the battery power curves would be needed to correctly approximate the stored charge!

Voltage is a good indicator of battery condition while the battery is either not being used or is being used, but toss in a charging system and all the voltage meter will tell, is the effect of the charging system, not the battery state. I have had batteries with open cells on a running engine with the volt and ammeter showing good, until the engine was turned off. Restart required a jump, then the engine system was up and running again, all lights working, and not any indication of any battery problems.

Putting this another way, using just a battery and no charging system in the circuit. The loads (lights, radios, downriggers, etc.) will control the current flow drawn off the battery. As the battery capacity drops, so will its voltage and the voltmeter will surely tell that. A voltmeter will indeed show the battery is charged and volts remaining; however, one needs to remember that a voltmeter showing 12.6 volts indicates the battery is fully charged and a showing of 12.2 volts represents a 50 percent discharge and is the effective lower limit for a lead acid battery. Also, if an electronic starting system is involved, anything under 12 volts and the engine probably will not start?

If one battery is 50% discharged it can take between 6 to 10 hours to recharge, depending on size and charging amps! [:0]

 

[spring time]

it's simple you're running way to much crap.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by spring time

it's simple you're running way to much crap.

This isn't about my power consumption... I have a pretty good handle on that. I very seldom have problems, as I watch?

But, it is to help others staying out of trouble and not having to go through what TenMile and a lot of others of us have all ready gone through! Plus, I really don't want to have to tow anyone in! [:I]

As in: http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12607