petition to keep the BC Grizzly hunt alive

[Sculpin]

I applaud you Nog for finally stepping into the conversation with the most unconfused post's yet in this thread. You are a straight shooter.

 

[profisher]

You are a straight shooter. Pun intended? lol

 

[Dave S]

No Dave, you obviously don't understand what I am saying. Managers are by definition both considering, and working diligently towards "what's best for the resource". Semantics, "ethics" if you prefer, simply do not, nor should not enter into the equation while doing so. When managing for Sustainability, when managing for greater population Health / Growth / what have you, it matters not whether the meat is utilized or not. The point is to maintain a healthy population while simultaneously striking a balance within the system as a whole. Removal of some for the benefit of all occurs on a regular basis in the case of most species. The hard fact of life is that it matters not to overall management objectives how, or even if those removed are utilized in any fashion. A nice fringe benefit when they can be obviously, but inconsequential in the long run to the somewhat tricky business of striking a balance between specific population health/growth and that of the system as a whole.

On the matter of why those who manage Hunters do not require the meat to be removed from Grizzlies or cougars, the answer is simple enough. It is for the same reason one is not required to take the meat of wolves, coyotes and most other carnivores - there is reasonable potential that meat is carrying any one of handful of human-transmissible diseases and/or parasites. Much more so than with deer, elk, moose, etc. For this (and related reasons) the meat of most carnivores is considered unpalatable. And while I recognize the exception regarding Black Bears, I am uncertain as to why the exception exists beyond the fact that many like to consume them.

The perception of "waste" when the meat of these species is left behind is a misnomer. Nothing gets "wasted" in nature, rather it is recycled immediately within the ecosystem the animal originated in. This too is a matter of personal perception, and again has no bearing on HOW a population is managed and the ecosystem's health overall.

As for just what future generations may think of today's practices, I am comfortable knowing that although they may dismiss them as somehow being erroneous, they will be able to show their grandchildren Grizzlies in the wild. And the reason they will be able to do so is specifically due to those Grizzly populations being properly managed according to Science.

Cheers,
Nog

Thanks for explaining the reasoning behind not harvesting the meat of these species. I have eaten plenty of cougar without an issue, and can't help but wonder how humans survived for so long eating the meat of carnivores. Obviously I'm not the most educated when it comes to hunting laws and the ethics hunters follow, so I decided to do some reading. It appears that there are many different views of what is ethical when it comes to hunting. I found this article by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. http://www.nssf.org/lit/EthicalHunter.pdf I feel they summed up nicely what hunting is about and what hunters need to do to respect nature and appreciate the privilege to hunt. Here are a couple statements that stood out.

Properly field dressing and cleaning game assures that
game is never wasted.

Non-hunters are critically important to the future of
hunting. Most non-hunters are tolerant, but will be
less so if forced to confront displays of dead game
or see people in hunting clothes behaving in
disrespectful ways. Ethical hunters are defined by
their own sense of respect, honor, safety and fairness.
Hunters who behave irresponsibly pose a
greater threat to the future of hunting than any
anti-hunting group. Bad impressions are difficult
to change.

Though our tools are more efficient than those
of our ancestors, as ethical hunters, we avoid the
use of technology that would place the game we
hunt at an unfair disadvantage. We abide by ethical
standards to preserve the
challenge of the hunt.
We honor the majesty of
wildlife and wilderness and
respect the game we take.
We are not wasteful.

 

[fish stalker]

It takes more time and effort that I have right now to make a huge post with links but I would like to see some of these great 'scientific' reports on grizzle bears.

I have never read the wiki on g.b it was the last sentence that got me.

'Farther north, in Alberta, Canada, intense DNA hair-snagging studies on 2000 showed the grizzly population to be increasing faster than what it was formerly believed to be, and Alberta Sustainable Resource Development calculated a population of 841 bears.[46] In 2002, the Endangered Species Conservation Committee recommended that the Alberta grizzly bear population be designated as threatened due to recent estimates of grizzly bear mortality rates that indicated the population was in decline. A recovery plan released by the Provincial government in March 2008 indicated the grizzly population is lower than previously believed.[52] In 2010, the Provincial government formally listed its population of about 700 grizzlies as "Threatened".[53]

Environment Canada consider the grizzly bear to a "special concern" species, as it is particularly sensitive to human activities and natural threats. In Alberta and British Columbia, the species is considered to be at risk.[54] In 2008, it was estimated there were 16,014 grizzly bears in the British Columbia population, which was lower than previously estimated due to refinements in the population model.[55]'


'lower than previously estimated due to refinements in the population model' When I was reading threw someone of those 'science' reports and reading about RISKman one of the programs they use to do projections and how they base there management strategy. The amount of error they have to factor in seems alot. Im sure they really are out there to develop these programs for the betterment of all but when there are these admitted 'refinements'... Its not encouraging to hear. We have heard about models and projections from dfo as know how skewed they seem to be.


After reading the wiki thing a quick thought your black bear/ grizzle meat viability thing is black bears have more of a herbivore diet and grizzles more meat...?


Also another thing im sure will factor in (but havent read anything yet just crossed my mind) is that the white pine a major source of food for grizzles is affected by the pine beetle so would think must be having an impact on there health. I know salmon play a major part in diet but it you look at a map of where the highest concentration of grizzles are and where the highest amount of white pines are they are the same.

A study in the mid-2000s showed Whitebark Pine had declined by 41 percent in the Western Cascades, due to two threats: White Pine Blister Rust and Mountain Pine Beetles.[3] Whitebark deaths in North Cascades National Park doubled from 2006 to 2011.[




Not meaning to argue just discuss I think most people are afraid of losing the chance of a invite on someones boat or something and arnt commenting, sure alot of people on this site with not many saying anything. On that note am I even aloud to buy my way back on to your boat Wolf or is it full ban now lol? Come awn bear and fly!? wtf

 

[wolf]

LOL of course you are(fish stalker) its just a debate and thats your "choice" to think what you may but I have personally been on a few of these hunts took people to view these animals for close to 10 years when they say "they are affected by human contact". well I think differentlly after watching them for so many years they really become accustomed to people traffic etc.I have seen more grizz in the last 5 years in the wild then ever before and what they have done.
Did anyone ever watch that nut (grizzly man) orsomething like that who stayed and slept in an area and video taped and documented the bears, only to get eaten up by an old grizz along with his GF. seemed the bears really liked him as well.....

How many on here have accually seen a grizz in the wild??? as I know for a fact they are not as easy to "see" in the wild a zoo yes but thats a whole ather thing isnt it???

 

[Gunsmith]

You skin grizz pilgrim?

 

[Andrew P]

I've seen a handful of Grizzly in the woods on a few separate occasions. Mostly in the mountains around Pemberton/Bralorne. Mostly from a distance. One time was way to close for comfort zipping by two older cubs on mountain bikes. We didn't see them until we were flying past.

Seeing black bears was a daily occasion through the summer while growing up in Whistler. No daily contact anymore....but 20 years of hundreds of bear sightings a year adds up.

 

[Englishman]

\
Did anyone ever watch that nut (grizzly man) orsomething like that who stayed and slept in an area and video taped and documented the bears, only to get eaten up by an old grizz along with his GF. seemed the bears really liked him as well.....

Wolf,
The Grizzly Man was the title of a movie about Timothy Treadwell, who was to some the ultimate bear lover and to others a crazy lunatic. The "movie" actually consists mostly of archival footage shot by Timothy himself in Katmai Park in Alaska. He is often only feet away from two or three bears at a time and in one sequence is swimming with one in the river.

Incredibly he spent 13 seasons living with, walking around and among, and sleeping near this very high concentration of bears but as you say his luck unfortunately ran out as did that of his girlfriend who were both killed by a bear . However, 13 seasons kind of shoots holes (pun intended) in the image of the grizzly bear as the aggressive, bloodthirsty, maniacal killer out to get any and every human it comes across.

Charlie Russell the bear expert is quoted saying the same thing in this wikipeadia article.
"The fact that Timothy spent an incredible 35,000 hours, spanning 13 years, living with the bears in Katmai National Park, without any previous mishap, escapes people completely."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Man

 

[fish stalker]

I have personally been on a few of these hunts took people to view these animals for close to 10 years when they say "they are affected by human contact". well I think differentlly after watching them for so many years they really become accustomed to people traffic etc.I have seen more grizz in the last 5 years in the wild then ever before

I thought thats what conservationists meant 'really become accustomed to people traffic' because 'they are affected by human contact'. Is that what you ment? just trying to figure out the 'differently' part. Do you think its because of this contact your are seeing more? More people going there just see them and not to shoot them and they are feeling safer and coming closer more often and more obvious?

Its funny to me how I think every hunter in this thread said they wouldnt kill a grizzly, other then Sculpin who said he might.

Also wondering (might not want to get into this one lol) but I know how many fish poachers I and others have come across. How often do you guys run into it? I geuss its hard to tell if guys have tags or not. I was watching alaska state troopers yesterday and im sure they like to have good juicy stuff for there show but I was shocked how much wasteful poaching was happening. I know about the chinese using black bear gall ballder and bile thing. I know alot of 'hunters' arnt as respectful as Wolf,Sitka and Nog are. All who seem to be meat and not trophy. I admit trophy hunting mentality is something I will never understand. It seems cruel and unusual. and that is why I post in this thread. I love that its only fishing site. I dont go on other 'outdoor' forums I dont want to see the pictures or read the threads about it. omg its a emotion no one have a fit.

 

[wolf]

To answer your questions NO there is more bears from what ive seen last year moose hunting saw 4 grizz and over 10 blackies in a week, hell had one in our yard during the summer sniff around and **** on my lawn he was eating the blackberries.
For me I am a trophy hunter as well especially when i go to sask I WANT to find a nice boone and crockett buck or when I go moose hunting I want a big moose but im also a realist after a few days If I havent seen or seen the signs of a big buck ill shoot a nice MATURE big deer as ultimatlly I want the MEAT just like salmon fishing we all want a tyee or a trophy thats why we do it, dont sugar coat it say you dont cmon be real....

The fact for me Why i dont want a grizz is
A. dont have a place big enough for a rug
B. dont want to eat it
C. never put it for a LEH as id want a spring bear and not going to spend money and the time doing that.

I used to kill my 2 bears a year all the time way back as there was a guy in mill bay who used to cure and smoke the "hams" and then id have sausage and pepperoni made from it when he passed I never shot anymore bears, because when you have had the best hard to go to 2nd best.

wolf

 

[TrophyTom]

Wow, it looks like some of you have not spent time in the areas where these creatures live.
Try living in a small Northern Community where the only thing that keeps them from going though the window to get you is the fear of being hunted.
In the city you don't being grabbed while taking out the trash, or walk around with a shotgun on Halloween.
Check the Stats on bear encounters when the last government put a stop to it.

 

[tincan]

It's just a cartoon. I didn't draw it. I think there is some truth to it. I'm sure many of you have seen this before. I just came across it on facebook today and it touches on some of the issues discussed, namely how play a role in nature (usually a negative one) and are stuck trying to figure out how to re-balance the system. I think we need to keep in mind that we (humans) have not and will not be the best option to balance nature as we've displayed in our short time here. Given that we're 7 billion strong, however, we are needed to protect some of the endangered species that remain. Large, globally organized no-fish/no-hunt areas in many parts of the world are a good start but had to imagine any real progress being made on that front.

 

[tincan]

that's it, eagles need to go next

[CE0Q904gtMI] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CE0Q904gtMI

 

[tincan]

again, half joking. but cool video nonetheless

 

[Gunsmith]

I am hearing that it is a hoax. I would not be surprised.

that's it, eagles need to go next

[CE0Q904gtMI] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CE0Q904gtMI

 

[Cuba Libre]

Apparently they stitched together a osprey making a run at a fish with the park shot-- but VERY well done!!!

 

[steel_dreamin]

BS - that is real.

Willing to bet some doughnuts.

 

[Englishman]

BS - that is real.

Willing to bet some doughnuts.

You lost your doughnuts Steel!! Of course it is hoax. Full details are here:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/eaglegrab.asp

Tincan - you can always check on the veracity of these weird photos and videos that usually circulate with no accreditation by looking at the above Snopes and also Hoaxslayer sites.

 

[Gunsmith]

They did do a good job of it.

You lost your doughnuts Steel!! Of course it is hoax. Full details are here:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/eaglegrab.asp

Tincan - you can always check on the veracity of these weird photos and videos that usually circulate with no accreditation by looking at the above Snopes and also Hoaxslayer sites.

 

[tincan]

ha, ya an hour after posting it I found that out. Thanks for pointing out those websites. We surely don't need any more questionably legit information on this forum... already enough of that


Tincan - you can always check on the veracity of these weird photos and videos that usually circulate with no accreditation by looking at the above Snopes and also Hoaxslayer sites.[/QUOTE]