Our own stocking program?

[Big Dave]

A friend up Island says they've been making safe spawning beds on the Salmon, Nimpkish, and Gold rivers for years and stocking them with the fish out of the rivers they live in. These fish are wild and native to the rivers they live in. And they still have fish. He also said the Regs say you can't move fish from one Lake, or River to another. And they're not. The spawning beds they make are only 30 ft. long. 2 or 3 guys. 2 or 3 days labor. And they still have fish. Are they doing something illegal? Or just smart. If it's not illegal, why can't we? Someone put a bunch of big rocks in front of JoGinders property on the Cowie so fish would stop in front of their property and they wouldn't have to go hunting for them. A couple of guys with pickups, wearing waders can do this. We don't need dump trucks and excavators. When I started asking at the Hatchery I was told , politely, to mind my own business and leave this to the professionals. I'm not advocating breaking the law. Just bypassing it. Or amending it. Or... Even wild ideas are better than none.

 

[Cuba Libre]

The construction of spawning platforms is a useful enhancement tool in some specific areas . If you go ahead and just start plunking down rocks and putting in tiny (3ft) platforms, you stand a very good chance of doing more harm than good. Each platform has to be engineered to the hydraulics of the stream and to the specie that you hope will spawn there. To do otherwise almost ensures that any eggs deposited in the new gravel will get washed away at the first freshet.You DO need an engineer to work on any system the size of those you mentioned. And did I mention liability? If you go ahead and mess with a stream and there is flooding or erosion downsteam at the next highwater, and you dont have a Water Management authorization, and DFO/MOE approval, you can be sued by affected landowners and fined by the bcrats.

So you want to still continue?? Well there is a right way of doing things. If its a salmon stream that is a manageable size ( not something like the Salmon) , get in touch with the DFO Community Advisor for the area and tell him you want to help. He/she will put you in touch with the enhancement or streamkeepers groups in your area. They will have projects with a far better track record than some guys rolling rocks into the river. And the Community Advisor takes care of the approval process so no liability factor. They can also call in more specialized biological help as well as engineering.
Over time as the expertize of a enhancement group develops, DFO will step back into an "on call" advisory role.

In the interior, a bunch of the angling clubs do work with MOE bios constructing spawning platforms at lake inlets or outlets. It is an especially useful tool for those lakes that dont have spawning areas. But again, it HAS to be engineered properly or you can kill eggs and waste your time.

I am suprised that your friend mentioned the Salmon and Nimpkish. Those rivers have active enhancement groups on them.They work closely with DFO Community Programs and the Resource Restoration Division.. not sure about the status of the Gold River Enhancement group

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[Big Dave]

Thanks Cuba Libra. Just asking. these guys are all in their 70s and 80s. Said they did it in side channels many years ago and maintain the beds since. since the 60s and 70s. Apparently younger people took over. Probably the groups you've mentioned. I live in Lake Cowichan and we're watching the fish disappear. Cancelling the Hatchery Steelhead program on the Cowichan has been devastating to the local sport fishery. I fish 4-5 days a week. Every one I meet is getting frustrated and don't know what to do. The local groups just shrug and say there's no money or political will. There are tons of potential volunteers. They're taking up golf and skiing. Do I buy a nice Centrepin I can't use or go back to fishing in the ocean?

If the Govt can't, we can.

 

[Cuba Libre]

Ya-- I hear you. But gotta be careful of some of those old guys!!! I met some of them in the Fraser valley and here on the Island too-- They showed me what a wonderful job they did cleaning out all the trees and logs in creeks on thier property so that the fish would have easy access up the creek. I hate to think of all the rearing habitat they damaged[xx(]

As fas as steelies-- The Cowie is not the only hatchery program that MOE canned. There are many frustrated anglers all the way up the Island because of that. I cant blame the Fresh Water Fisheries Society who run the provincial hatchery however. They take thier marching orders from MOE Fisheries Section. And not everyone is unhappy with the demise of our steelhead stocking programs. There are quite a bunch who would rather fish all week to shake hands with one wild fish, instead of having hatchery fish . Thats why after many great years fishing winter steelhead, I quit. I keep my boat going all winter on the chuck.

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[Big Dave]

I like fly fishing, and can usually catch a fish of some description. I'm also retired and have a camper van. I can and do go where the fish actually are. I'm usually not picky about the species unless I'm hungry. I like Lings and rockfish to eat. I also don't think the Hatcheries are very good at raising steelhead or salmon. The returns just aren't happening. They are good at raising trout for small "put and take" lakes. You and some others have suggested raising fish in lakes. Why not a steelhead net pen in a large lake like Cowichan? they do it successfully for Pinks in Cowichan bay. Isn't there some other way to enhance our wild fish rather than closed containment, clipped fins, and brown pellets? Why is Nile Creek so successfull?

 

[Cuba Libre]

Net pen rearing is not new for pacific salmon. Primarily done in saltwater, but not always. For steelhead, lake pens as well as saltwater short term pen rearing is occasionally used. But I am a little unsure about what you mean by hatcheries not able to raise steelhead and salmon. In some rivers, it been spectacular. Just think what the SS, Puntledge, Quinsam or Vedder would be like with no hatchery program.... But you are right about the returns, in general, not happening. With steelhead, in order to get decent numbers of fish returning, they have to release LARGE numbers. Apart from the obvious cost associated with a large rearing program, there are other biological factors that need to be considered....things like how many wild fish can be taken for broodstock before it brings up genetic concerns etc. With the advent of the POST program, net penning of steelhead to get them past that critical initial transition stage while monitoring thier survivals after release is being tried. Also the summer run fish that are being released in the Campbell are net penned in a lake as are other north island hatchery steelies. But, because of the abysmal returns, the FWFS has put thier main effort into rearing and stocking lake fish as they get the best "bang for thier buck" . No mysterious "ocean survivals" here.

As far as Nile Creek-- those guys have maxed the habitat with thier efforts AND Nile Creek is groundwater fed. Ground water is like gold when it comes to raising fish.
Why did they get so many pinks back??? Well, there is a theory that the extreme low water in the early fall when the pinks returned to the area affected those fish that could not get into thier natal streams. Fanny Bay Enhancement Society was expecting a decent return of pinks last fall too. The pinks showed up in late August, early Sept along the beaches of the Baynes Sound streams. But they would have needed running shoes to get up stream. Salmon will only wait so long before they go looking for the next available suitable stream, especially if they are being harassed by seals.

Well on the northern end of Baynes Sound , the Puntledge had a pretty decent pink return. To the south, that little ground water stream, Nile Creek, had what was probably its best pink return ever! Wall to wall fish. So were they all strays-- I doubt that, but I would lay odds that a bunch were. But---- pick a number!

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[cammer]

Big Dave, you stated that hatcheries arent very good at producing salmonoids?? I really dont think you have a good grasp at the whole picture. For example, in 1986, expo years, the provincial and federal govs, put great resources into hatchery programs and for that year and the years following, my friends and brothers who fished the rivers, fishing was totally amazing, amazing, i said it twice because a 100 steelhead year on the allouette with 23 # hatchery fish needs emphasizing.. the year or so following i got in the action and the chehalis and vedder put so many coho out that anglers got spoiled. Now the Feds and prov. gov.s have cut back each year since on budgets and numbers of fish produced, and if you have any experience fishing the last 20 years locally in the lower mainland, you would have seen the declines. Now for comparison, the local oceans have seen great numbers of hatchery springs being caught and this is due to the hatchery program in the USA and it has saved local fishing recently. Basically to sum it all up, hatcheries for salmonoids work fabulously well, you just need a comparison to determine it

 

[Blackleech]

I would take one wild Cowichan steely over a bunch of Stamp cookie cutter clones any day []

 

[Summer Steel]

The way the Cowie is fishing, soon, one is all there will be. [V]

 

[Blackleech]

What's the general consensus on the reason for the Cowie's poor returns?

I'm sure it's a combination of things, but I'm going to go with the commercial fishing industry in front of Port McNeil and poor ocean survival. Apparently the Straight of Georgia is now basically a marine desert... poor steely smolts starve before they can make it out

 

[onefish]

Yup those commercial fisherman are good. They can even wipe out winter steelhead when they are all tied to the dock. Give your head a shake.

 

[Dinnertime]

Oh Oh Mr commercial fisherman is getting upset.My advice is ,your a dinosaur,get a real job.The Vedder has benefited greatly from the Enhancement program with alot of big fish this year.They come in all shapes and sizes,no cookie cutter fish here.I have also thought if the stupid MOE,DFO and Governments dont want to enhance our rivers then we should get together and do it ourselves.

 

[cammer]

The Cowie is a hatchery river so there is a chance that the wild cowie steelie your referring to might have a hatchery mom or dad?, and like summer steel said it might be the last one w/o hatchery help

 

[Fog Ducker]

OK.. Hatcheries ARE NOT a tool for restoring wild stocks, except under very unusual and rare conditions. Adding hatchery fish, or a hatchery program is only done to add fishing opportunity, not to 'help' the fish. You can throw a million smolts into the Englishman river for 10 years, sure the fishing will be great when those returning fish but as soon as you stop you end up with the same 60-80 adults/yr returning, except they are now genetically inferior and less likely to adapt to future challenges.

Habitat enhancement is currently one of the only methods for truly helping the wild fish stocks we have left, and spawning platforms can be a good method. Often however it will really do nothing, especially for steelhead, because it is rarely spawning area that is a limiting factor for steelhead. Chum yes, pink Yes, steelhead no, because they spend so much time in FW and require so much rearing space. One pair of steelhead can lay over 3000 eggs in a square meter (or so), The Smolt Capacity for the entire Cowichan river is thought to be about 25000 smolts, so, the usual return of 500-800 fish has the ability to seed the Cowichan river many times over. and there is definitely room for every one of those 800 fish to spawn, and many more. It is noble to look down this path, and i know your intentions are definitely good, but I am afraid if you are looking to enhance steelhead in the Cowichan, adding gravel is not the answer. And without a barrage of permits and licenses yes, it would be illegal.

 

[Blackleech]

quote:OK.. Hatcheries ARE NOT a tool for restoring wild stocks, except under very unusual and rare conditions. Adding hatchery fish, or a hatchery program is only done to add fishing opportunity, not to 'help' the fish. You can throw a million smolts into the Englishman river for 10 years, sure the fishing will be great when those returning fish but as soon as you stop you end up with the same 60-80 adults/yr returning, except they are now genetically inferior and less likely to adapt to future challenges.

Thank you.

 

[HOOTEY]

Good onya Dave for at least trying to get something done out there [^]

ITS OUR PASSION TO FISH AND GET OUT OF DOORS...PLEASE...FISH LEGAL OR GET OFF THE RIVER!

 

[searun]

Hey Felix, its not as simple as just doing habitat work. While I'm a strong proponent of doing everything we can to improve and expand existing habitat I think you need a wider response to truly make a difference in Steelhead productivity. An over simplification but here's what my views are in terms of the formula for success, it is in no rank order:

1) Hatchery Production
2) Habitat Restoration
3) Construction of net new habitat (side channel and overwintering ponds)
4) Spawning platforms
5) Stream Fertilization to boost insect productivity
6) Predator control in ocean environment
7) Removal of Salmon Farms using open net pens

Without some form of recruitment (hatchery) we can build all the best habitat but accomplish nothing. Our natural production is so poor at the moment that we need to take unprecedented action to improve this or risk loss of the genetic pool (extinction).

After listening to Dr Alexandra Morton, I would put removal of open net pen salmon farms up on the priority list to either number one or two position. The real risk is disease from the salmon farms is travelling great distances through the water currents killing all our migrating smolts. Interesting to see that the down slide of Steelhead abundance seems to mirror the exact time when salmon farming started in the early 1990's until now.....hmmmm. Think about it!



Searun

 

[Big Dave]

thanks Guys. the feedback is great. Alexandra Morton was treated as aheretic for years. She was right all along. Educating our kids is probably our future. In the classroom, and out fishing. When I said the Govt wasn't good at it, I meant they're not willing. For economic and political reasons. There are biologists etc. who are great at their jobs. But they're unemployed. At least by those in power. The ones who are employed work for the fish farmers, and the chemical companies. And tell us what those industries want us to hear. About a dozen years ago I caught a coho in front of Powell River. It had tumors all over it. theMill and Govt "experts'said the mill was safe." Did nothing, until the towns people started dying of Cancer. I lived in Comox and could limit on Bluebacks in 1-2hours. Haven't seen one in years. None of us knows exactly why, but we all have a pretty good idea. A lot of good ideas from this thread.

 

[Time]

Hi Dave, a year ago DFO laid down some test spawning beds in the Cowichan by trucking in gravel.
Last spring they were looking for volunteers to observe and count fry emerging from the beds. Unfortunately I wasn't able to participate then, nor did I ever hear of any results.
One of those things I keep meaning to phone about and never do, but you might want to give the Duncan DFO office a call and enquire, either if it is a continuing program, or what they thought the results were.
I'd do it myself but keep forgetting.
Early Alzheimers?