Oil Spill-

[tincan]

Agree. Just because someone doesn't live in Canada doesn't mean they can't point out the obvious environment-related f-ups we've seen happen in the past couple decades. Canada's reputation as a steward of the environment is LONG GONE on the international level and there are very few people in Canada left who try to cling to our past reputation, typically they are doing so for political/business reasons. Step back and look at the basis of our economy, our commitments to global environmental issues, and our recent history of gutting science funding and protective legislation and it's not a pretty picture indeed. We can keep our heads in the sand and pretend we are still the good, ole Canada from decades past but it's just not the case. Unfortunately all of this has caused many, including myself, to lose much of the pride I once had to be Canadian. I'm not going to give up and wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world but it's changed from what it was.

you will note that i have not tried to defend the policies of the US now or ever. there is pleny wrong this side of the border and we in the US are well aware of that. only you Canadians seem to believe you are above the rest of the world and feel free to kick sand at the drop of a hat. actually as a resource extraction based economy, you are killing everything you claim to want to protect. but, do feel free to continue kicking sand while you wander around with your binders on.

 

[Gunsmith]

He is not wrong but if you want to stand up on a coke crate and preach you better be ready to make sacrifices. Just a few examples, computer keyboards, components, scotty plastics,fishing lines, clothing, waterproofing,electric wire coating, water pipes, and on and on. Everythng we do or use is made from petroleum products. You can't pick or choose, our whole life style is built aound it. You want change same as I, but not ready to pay the band yet are we?
So lets just knock out the oilsands, that should do it right? Everything else is ok right? NOT SO! We have built a whole world out of ruining the environment where do you start? Probably with the neighbor, not us right? Better hurry up and find some workable answers time is getting very short!

 

[ziggy]

hey Ziggy, the US purchases all of those resources you folks extract. without that for sale by Canada what would keep your economy afloat???

does the US have a lot wrong with what is going on, for sure, for sure. the difference in this thread is i recognize that and don't pretend to be holier than thou.

carry on..............

There you go then, refuse to buy our resources and it will all stop, our economy will fail and your government can rush in and save us from ourselves. lol. By the way doesn't your buying our resources make you part of the problem?

 

[reelfast]

There you go then, refuse to buy our resources and it will all stop, our economy will fail and your government can rush in and save us from ourselves. lol. By the way doesn't your buying our resources make you part of the problem?

absolutely, propping up your economy leads to further exploitation of your natural resources. the interesting things that has occured, however, is the US is now producing more petrolum products than it is using making importation of Canadian oil problematic. the fact that it still goes on, at some level, should tell us both that some back room deal was cut between our governments.

the biggest problem this country currently faces is the gerrymandering of congressional districts by the tea party. that has shifted the house of reps to a solid GOP, party of NO, majority for the foreseable future. it guarantees that nothing progressive will be accomlished short of the sheepeople waking up and tossing these idiots out of office.

and of course your are correct gunsmith, much of what we use is based on petroleum products. sad as that may be, i only have my vote and my voice along with some bucks sent to progressive folks fighting to make changes. hopefully you and your fellow Canadians are also thinkin along these more progessive lines as well.

 

[Englishman]

He is not wrong but if you want to stand up on a coke crate and preach you better be ready to make sacrifices. Just a few examples, computer keyboards, components, scotty plastics,fishing lines, clothing, waterproofing,electric wire coating, water pipes, and on and on. Everythng we do or use is made from petroleum products. You can't pick or choose, our whole life style is built aound it. You want change same as I, but not ready to pay the band yet are we?
So lets just knock out the oilsands, that should do it right? Everything else is ok right? NOT SO! We have built a whole world out of ruining the environment where do you start? Probably with the neighbor, not us right? Better hurry up and find some workable answers time is getting very short!

Gunsmith, you are correct in listing all of those petroleum derived consumer products. However, it is a bit of a red herring since the volume of oil and oil product used to make those products is TINY compared to using it as bulk fuel. In fact that is what oil should be used for, as a raw material for making products, not for burning in enormous volumes and dumping all the CO2 into the atmosphere. If it were used as a raw feed for products only it would last for thousands of years, not a few decades which is the trajectory we are on now. We also would not be seeing these pipeline spills.
We, as a human race, HAVE to get off oil as an energy source ASAP, and that means Canda should be putting billions into alternative energy sources, not tar sands development!

 

[walleyes]

Gunsmith, you are correct in listing all of those petroleum derived consumer products. However, it is a bit of a red herring since the volume of oil and oil product used to make those products is TINY compared to using it as bulk fuel. In fact that is what oil should be used for, as a raw material for making products, not for burning in enormous volumes and dumping all the CO2 into the atmosphere. If it were used as a raw feed for products only it would last for thousands of years, not a few decades which is the trajectory we are on now. We also would not be seeing these pipeline spills.u
We, as a human race, HAVE to get off oil as an energy source ASAP, and that means Canda should be putting billions into alternative energy sources, not tar sands development!

So do it !! Put your money where your mouth is and quit using gasoline, quit using oil,, I mean all of it every last bit. Stop being a hypocrite and passing the buck and quit using. Quit putting money into the oil companies pockets and take the money and give it to researchers to develop products. Why wait for the government to do everything for you, quit asking them to feed you and feed yourself. Alexandra Graham Bell never waited for the government to give him money to change the world,, he did it on his own.

Until every last one of us stop using every last drop and start using ONLY alternative sources we can not complain. I will not tolerate hypocrites any longer. We are the problem not the companies, not the government, we are. All they are doing is giving us what we want, that's it..

No more excuses,, buck up or shut up..

 

[Gunsmith]

Well Englishman that is a good answer, only one issue, where are the "billions " to come from? So far our government has been giving billions away to needy countries, and these billions have been coming from our pockets, to get more billions they will reach again into the consumer's pockets. So far I have not seen any logical answers, only bafflegab from those who live off the work of others. There is no end in sight and to be honest I am going to keep on doing what I do till I die.

Gunsmith, you are correct in listing all of those petroleum derived consumer products. However, it is a bit of a red herring since the volume of oil and oil product used to make those products is TINY compared to using it as bulk fuel. In fact that is what oil should be used for, as a raw material for making products, not for burning in enormous volumes and dumping all the CO2 into the atmosphere. If it were used as a raw feed for products only it would last for thousands of years, not a few decades which is the trajectory we are on now. We also would not be seeing these pipeline spills.
We, as a human race, HAVE to get off oil as an energy source ASAP, and that means Canda should be putting billions into alternative energy sources, not tar sands development!

 

[Andrew P]

...you better be ready to make sacrifices. Just a few examples, computer keyboards, components, scotty plastics,fishing lines, clothing, waterproofing,electric wire coating, water pipes, and on and on. Everythng we do or use is made from petroleum products.

It's really unfortunate that so many people fixate on the actual oil use rather than the sales and shipping method of the oil. I use oil, boat fuel, car fuel, type on my computer and do think some of the plastic items are pretty sweet, even though I would always rather buy a wood, metal, more natural product. My major problem with the whole Northern Gateway Pipeline and the method of marketing is because it is taking from the countries resources without looking at the true effect on the balance sheet. It is simply stealing from the health of the environment(including human health...we are animals) and selling it off at subsidized prices, and the majority of companies allowed to do this are not even Canadian anymore. Our royalties are far too low and we are selling off a finite resource without adding any value to it, and then importing back in a final price. Don't worry though....China will remain hungry, because they buy raw materials from us at low prices, add value to it, and then sell it back to us for a profit.....and are getting rich off of it!! Watch CBC's "The Selling of Alberta". We should be taking care of our own energy needs first and foremost. This is obviously a very unpopular topic for Albertans, but would be a net benifit for all Canadians because of the multiplier effect. Albertains wouldn't be making as much perhaps....but again if the true cost to the environment was actually taken into account in the business the salaries wouldn't be unnaturally high also.

As with logs, oil, fish, and any other natural resource...in my opinion we should be adding value to our resources, in turn creating more jobs and having a multiplier effect of spending in the Canadian economy. We should not be trying to rape the resource as fast as humanly possible so that this generation can have a fat retirement...at the expense of the environment and future generations entitlement to the resource. It is shameful the greed going down.

Pretty basic business common sense that if you are selling off your resources and not making enough margin, there is not enough left to cover your fixed expenses; despite being a supposed energy superpower on the world stage, Canada and Alberta seem to be running a deficit....

 

[Gunsmith]

That is right but it seems to be the problem with all of Canada, not only Alberta. Is not BC selling whole logs at a discount to China? Saskatchewan seems to be holding tight but everywhere else it is bargain basement prices on resources. I agree we should be doling it out at a rate that supplies our needs first. Our biggest problem is the outside interests that seem to own our resources.

It's really unfortunate that so many people fixate on the actual oil use rather than the sales and shipping method of the oil. I use oil, boat fuel, car fuel, type on my computer and do think some of the plastic items are pretty sweet, even though I would always rather buy a wood, metal, more natural product. My major problem with the whole Northern Gateway Pipeline and the method of marketing is because it is taking from the countries resources without looking at the true effect on the balance sheet. It is simply stealing from the health of the environment(including human health...we are animals) and selling it off at subsidized prices, and the majority of companies allowed to do this are not even Canadian anymore. Our royalties are far too low and we are selling off a finite resource without adding any value to it, and then importing back in a final price. Don't worry though....China will remain hungry, because they buy raw materials from us at low prices, add value to it, and then sell it back to us for a profit.....and are getting rich off of it!! Watch CBC's "The Selling of Alberta". We should be taking care of our own energy needs first and foremost. This is obviously a very unpopular topic for Albertans, but would be a net benifit for all Canadians because of the multiplier effect. Albertains wouldn't be making as much perhaps....but again if the true cost to the environment was actually taken into account in the business the salaries wouldn't be unnaturally high also.

As with logs, oil, fish, and any other natural resource...in my opinion we should be adding value to our resources, in turn creating more jobs and having a multiplier effect of spending in the Canadian economy. We should not be trying to rape the resource as fast as humanly possible so that this generation can have a fat retirement...at the expense of the environment and future generations entitlement to the resource. It is shameful the greed going down.

Pretty basic business common sense that if you are selling off your resources and not making enough margin, there is not enough left to cover your fixed expenses; despite being a supposed energy superpower on the world stage, Canada and Alberta seem to be running a deficit....

 

[Andrew P]

Is not BC selling whole logs at a discount to China?

It's sooo brutal. We need should be selling lumber, furniture, etc.....not raw anything and certainly not at a discount.

 

[Lank Thompson]

The problem is that wages are too high here. I guarantee that most people own a made in China kitchen table that cost $2-500 instead of a Canadian made table, for example, for $1000. Sad that a tree can be cut in BC, transported to China, assembled and transported back as a table cheaper than we dan make it locally. Also, as was commented earlier, metal products are not more natural than oil based plastics, metals are easily among the highest users of fossil fuels to extract, refine and manufacture.

 

[salmonkiller01]

Didn't post to start a Canada -U.S fight, just thought wow an oil spill in the suburbs! I can honestly say that canada(with Harper as the leader) is heading down the wrong road, export your raw resources for short term gain will make you poorer in the end. The real money and jobs are in the manufactering of products, not just shipping raw logs, or crude oil offshore. We need rifineries that will employ thousands and those people will buy canadian tables for a grand and the people who made those tables will buy gasoline made by the refinery and all those people will pay taxes or you can have a plant extract the crude ship it to china and buy crap made by slave labour! To each his own.

 

[Andrew P]

Yes...wages needed to make products locally are higher, but that also means that people have more to spend.

Fact is, the majority of people out there would rather have quantity over quality. Multiples of the disposable crap than a quality item that will last for years. Oil has made all of this possible. Namely because oil is so incredibly useful and plentiful on earth.

Another fact is that oil is becoming scarce and the wage gap is closing faster than most people realize.

And metal is certainly not easy to get out of the ground, but again, like trees in the forest, oil in the ground, water in the river, we should cherish and make the most out what we do take from the precious and finite resources that exist. Making cheap metal crap is just as bad as cheap crap made of plastic, wood, etc.

They say 'they don't make things like they used to". We need to go back to that when things were made solid, local and to last.

 

[Lank Thompson]

Agreed, sort of. Everybody has it in their power to make this happen if they bought the local stuff. Create a demand and someone will supply it. But the fact is that people prefer disposable and cheap because fashions and technology change faster than things wear out. But if everyone maintained their vehicles (for example) and ran them until they were actually not economical anymore tens of thousands would be out of jobs at the vehicle manufacturing plants. The fact is the average person is wasteful and frivolous. I know several people who won't drink anything but bottled water. Ridiculous, recycle or not.

Like it or not we all, myself included, fall into this category in many ways.

 

[Lank Thompson]

Just a few bits of info.


Draw your own conclusions.


Highest emissions are California's thermal oil, way higher than oil sands, in fact the oil sands are not appreciably higher than the standard Gulf Coast oil. If US military emissions are counted in the production if the Middle East oil it is probably a lot higher.

 

[Gunsmith]

Hopeful that everybody has something to say and be it not what we want to hear, should not be an issue. A good discussion about this teaches us more than fighting about it. I have seen a lot of good info here and am enjoying the discussion albeit I do not agree with everything I am still listening. The end of the line is still even a little bit is a lot and we all contribute.

Didn't post to start a Canada -U.S fight, just thought wow an oil spill in the suburbs! I can honestly say that canada(with Harper as the leader) is heading down the wrong road, export your raw resources for short term gain will make you poorer in the end. The real money and jobs are in the manufactering of products, not just shipping raw logs, or crude oil offshore. We need rifineries that will employ thousands and those people will buy canadian tables for a grand and the people who made those tables will buy gasoline made by the refinery and all those people will pay taxes or you can have a plant extract the crude ship it to china and buy crap made by slave labour! To each his own.

 

[reelfast]

more in the media about the Arkansas tar sands oil spill:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/arkansas-oil-spill-health-_n_3045610.html

i surely hope Obama takes the correct step and denies the building of the cross border pipeline. i don't know how you folks will ever stop this folly but i can see your fabled BC rivers awash in this stuff, its just a matter of time.

 

[Englishman]

more in the media about the Arkansas tar sands oil spill:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/arkansas-oil-spill-health-_n_3045610.html

i surely hope Obama takes the correct step and denies the building of the cross border pipeline. i don't know how you folks will ever stop this folly but i can see your fabled BC rivers awash in this stuff, its just a matter of time.

This is exactly why Northern Gateway pipeline will never be built. The BC people will see to that, starting with the Provincial election this May.

 

[vetteman]

This is exactly why Northern Gateway pipeline will never be built. The BC people will see to that, starting with the Provincial election this May.

Here here!
Dave

 

[Lank Thompson]

more in the media about the Arkansas tar sands oil spill:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/arkansas-oil-spill-health-_n_3045610.html

i surely hope Obama takes the correct step and denies the building of the cross border pipeline. i don't know how you folks will ever stop this folly but i can see your fabled BC rivers awash in this stuff, its just a matter of time.

The keystone pipeline is nowhere near BC. Hundreds of miles away at the closest in fact.

Does anybody here own a boat that burns gas or diesel? Doesn't sound like it. Probably no cars, furnaces or air conditioners either. Grows there own food without tractors or power? If so, feel free to protest oil development. If not then you are the one creating demand/necessity for the oil. If the oil doesn't come from Canada it comes by boat across the ocean or via American pipelines across the US. No difference.