New Damien Gillis Fishfarming Expose'...

[agentaqua]

quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

Charlie,

How does ISA ruin their "environment and fisheries" when it impacts only farmed Atlantic Salmon and no other fish species has been found to die from it. Carry it yes, but not succumb to it?
...

From a farmers perspective ISAV is a bad virus, but not so much from a wild population stand point. No where has it caused any problems accept to the farmed fish, so relax Charlie, there are worse viruses that occur naturally in BC that will effect wild pacifics. And the farms had nothing to do with bringing them in or creating them from thin air.

Relax, eh - sockeyefry..hmmm

The reality is that although we know that the mortality rate of ISA on farmed Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) is high and something like 80-90%, we really DO NOT</u> know what the effects would be if a population of onchorynchus spp. got infected.

As far as I am aware - all we know is that the mortality rate is high on Salmo, and are lower on the few Pacific salmon tested.

Firstly, do you know what the mortality rate is on Pacific salmon on a species-by-species basis? I don't, nor can I find where that was ever researched.

Secondly, the sublethal or population-level effects of ISA on wild, Pacific salmon have not be investigated - to my knowledge.

What are the effects of ISA on fry survival, egg production, etc?

Infected fish may exhibit any or all of the following signs of ISA; listlessness; protruding and/or haemorrhaged eyes; pale gills; swollen livers; swollen or enlarged spleens; petechial hemorrhages on the pyloric caecae; suppressed leukocyte response; a decrease in the capability of the liver to transform and excrete xenobiotics from the body; cardiac myopathy syndrome (CSM), and; internal bleeding. Any of these symptoms may not cause IMMEDIATE death, but could easily cause a decrease in population-level survival.

What happens if a group of ISA-infected Pacific salmon are attempting to spawn, with the associated high stress that they would experience? Would the disease "express" itself, then? Would other stream-dwelling salmonids be exposed and infected?

There is FAR TOO MANY UNKNOWNS TO BE COMPLACENT!!!

 

[Charlie]

Let’s try it this way? Here is a little history lesson and I think we should look at some additional facts, as to what we are discussing.

A virulent influenzavirus strain has emerged in the Northern Hemisphere that is now spreading world-wide, and has been declared by the World Health Organization (WHO) as the cause of a Phase Six global pandemic, based on the sustained worldwide spread of this… it is the H1N1 virus, and not based on the severity of illness caused by this virus. What is neglected to be discussed in the media is the emergence of this disease or how it evolved.

I certainly am no expert on influenzaviruses, swine, ISA, or otherwise and have no clinical medicine background, but, I can read! One needs to remember the media are trying to sell their products, in that case and also in the case of ISA - they are not really trying to educate anyone. Governments are trying to show that they are on top of things, that they are competent to provide safety and security for the citizens of their country. Sometimes that adds up to people stirring an unstirred pot to show they can handle a stirred pot. I am not trying to fall into either category; however I see ISA as a “huge” potential</u> problem. Not saying it will ever mutate or evlove into anything other than what it already is - but the "potential" is there and we don't really know the current effects it will have on our Pacific salmon! We do know it has mutated into a strain currently carried by Coho.

There are more examples of this than I could possibly include. “SWINE FLU,” “PIG FLU,” “HOG FLU”, "BIRD FLU", ISA, etc... you want me to go on? Any of these terms I am sure you are familiar with… as are people all over the world.

Just a little background, On April 29, 2009 Egypt announced that all 300 000 pigs in Egypt would be slaughtered to prevent transmission of this virus to people, even though there is no evidence that the virus had reached Egypt. Israel actually announced it would not call this virus “swine flu,” it would call it “Mexican flu.” Moslem countries have not said anything as yet, as far as I know. In any case, it wasn’t “Mexican” for very long.

This is “influenza”, which ISAvirus "is" in its family.
Influenza has been recognized and been around for hundreds of years. In 1892, the German bacteriologist Richard Pfeiffer isolated a bacterium which he considered the causative agent. In 1921, Peter Olitsky and Frederick Gates of the Rockefeller Foundation published their results, which demonstrated that nasal secretions from patients infected with the 1918 influenza virus (influenza A H1N1, vide infra), and passed it through a filter that excluded bacteria, still caused pneumonia in rabbits. Olitsky and Gates had isolated the etiologic agent of this disease but did not recognize that and subsequent studies by others minimized their discovery. Paul Lewis and Richard Shope, also of the Rockefeller Foundation later did similar filtration work and discovered that the bacterium they found, which they called Bacillus influenzae suis, was similar to that which Pfeiffer had isolated.

That bacterium did not cause disease in pigs; however the filtrate did. When the disease they could cause in pigs was found to be more mild than the natural disease, they added their B. influenzae suis to the filtrate and reproduced the severe form of the disease.

To understand this virus – start with the word “influenza,” It was first used in English in 1743 when the disease was recognized in Europe. This word originated with the Italian word influenza, meaning “influence” (Latin: influentia), named so because the disease was considered to be caused by unfavorable astrological conditions. The disease also is known as epidemic catarrh, grippe (from the French), sweating sickness, and Spanish fever (particularly for the 1918 pandemic strain). Hippocrates had clearly defined this disease about 2400 years ago but he lacked laboratory confirmation.

Historically, it has been stated this disease is caused by certain strains of the influenza virus. This is incorrect and this from an article written by Charles H. Calisher (Email: calisher@cybersafe.net), which I find very accurate.

There is no such thing as “the influenza virus,” any more than there is “the encephalitis virus” or “the hantavirus” or “the elephant,” virus. Within the virus family Orthomyxoviridae are 5 genera: Influenzavirus A, Influenzavirus B, Influenzavirus C, Thogotovirus, and Isavirus</u> (note its own classification). Within the former 3 genera are viruses that cause influenza; the thogotoviruses are transmitted to vertebrates by ticks but do not cause influenza, and the single isavirus </u> (which is what we are referring to), infectious salmon anemia virus, is transmitted to fish through water. Influenza A virus (FLUAV), influenza B virus (FLUBV), and infectious salmon anemia virus contain 8 linear, negative sense single-stranded RNAs (viral RNAs, vRNA). Influenza C virus (FLUCV) and Dhori virus (a thogotovirus) contain 7 vRNAs and Thogoto virus contains 6 vRNAs. Superinfections of cells with, for example, 2 different FLUAVs allows for reassortment of vRNAs, which can result in progeny viruses with characteristics of each parent. If one parental virus contains genes specifying high pathogenicity and low transmission potential and the other parental virus contains genes specifying low pathogenicity and high transmission, the progeny might have high pathogenicity and high transmission potential. This is not a good thing, but as I understand - any is subject to mutate or evolve to this.

The 8 vRNAs of the influenzavirus A genome produce: PB2 (cap binding transcriptase), PB1 (elongation transcriptase), PA (protease activity [uncertain] transcriptase), HA (hemagglutinin; viral surface projections), NP (nucleoprotein that binds RNA and transports vRNA nucleoprotein), NA (neuraminidase that functions to release virus from the cell; viral surface projections), M1/M2 (matrix proteins), and NS1/NS2 (non-structural proteins; NS1 functions in RNA transport, translation, and splicing; the function of the NS2 is unknown). Obviously this is a complex virus, but the major problem we have dealing with it is that the reassortants that can and do occur can cause trouble for humans and for our livestock and wild friends. Influenzavirus A isolates from birds have provided us with evidence for the presence of 16 hemagglutinins and 9 neuraminidases in various combinations. The subtypes are noted as H1N1, H1N2, etc., based on these characteristic proteins. Pigs, horses, and humans have a much narrower range of subtypes but multiple variants may circulate enzootically among birds and among mammals of certain species, ie, H5N1, H7N7, and H7N3 in birds; H3N8 in dogs; H7N7 and H3N8 in horses, etc. Some have been documented to jump species to humans, some have not.</u> In addition to reassortment of genes (genetic shift), small but significant mutations in the nucleotide sequence (genetic drift) can suddenly, or cumulatively over time, bring about alterations in the virus phenotype.</u> The fun never stops! Can you relate to the "bird" flu?

Colloquial expressions such as swine flu, canine flu, equine flu, bird flu, etc. are used, but these terms are neither accurate nor sufficiently descriptive. The virus is the virus, the host is (not so simply) a vehicle.

The proper expression for a particular strain of an influenzavirus, according to the International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses, should include the name of the virus, the source, the location, the laboratory isolate number, and the year of collection. An isolate from the current outbreak in Mexico might be named influenza A virus/human/TM/123/2009 (H1N1). In other words, it is an influenzavirus A from a human in Tamaulipas State, Mexico, it was the 123rd isolate from the laboratory which isolated it, and was collected in 2009. Btw, In the current outbreak in Mexico, or anywhere else, pigs were not even the first vertebrate hosts shown to be infected.

Therefore, even if a particular strain, might disappear surveillance still must be maintained as an influenzavirus mutates, hence your “new flu” shot each year. A virus might just disappear altogether or it might resurface in a different strain? Determination of the required composition of these influenzavirus are done annually to determine vaccines. Under the current procedures, there is only a 6-month lead time to develop vaccines.

There are many large farm fish losses posted on the Marine Harvest Canada website 2007-2009.
Brougham Pt. - lost 142,463 fish July 2009 (Campbell River)
Bickley Bay - lost 123, 297 fish July 2008, (Campbell River)
Doctor Island - lost 71,056 fish August 2008 (Broughton)
Raynore Group - lost 343,226 fish Sep. 2008 (Port Hardy)
Lime Point - lost 63,875 fish October 25, 2008 (Central Coast)
Jackson Pass - lost 661,367 fish August 2009 (Central Coast)
Okisollo Channel lost 500,000 fish Jan – July 2007 (Campbell River)

I am assumming from "soft flesh", Salmonid Furunculosis, Bacterial Kidney Disease (BKD),or one of those other many diseases you are referring to and not ISA???

Look at the dates! Most if not all of these losses were during wild salmon migration windows. And, we don’t know what is going on with the Mainstream and Grieg farms. Nor how many of these losses were due to disease? Do you know?

Concerning the importation of salmon eggs, I know the last import of eggs was from Iceland in November 2007. I also know BC imports eggs from the east coast, which NB and Maine have both had outbreaks... and if you want I can dig up the letter written from Canada to Washington a few years back were Canada was asking Washington to relax import/export standards to make it eassier for BC farms to import eggs from Washington farms. BTW, our eggs came from Australia. But, I believe this to be will be enough and correct statement from Alexandra Morton written in October,

“In addition, we have a Federal Minister of Fisheries who refuses to accept the science that ISA virus travels in salmon eggs and so she is allowing salmon eggs from the Atlantic into BC. The threat posed by an introduced virus is tremendous. Norwegian scientists tracking the ISA virus say BC is guaranteed to get the disease, if we continue with this unintelligent policy. Fish farmers don’t know what the other companies are doing and so your Ministry would be providing a huge service to test every salmon farm for ISA right now, including Clayoquot Sound. That way we don’t have to guess where we stand with this virus, which could change the status of wild and farm salmon completely, just look at the mess in Chile from ISA where 65% of all farm salmon have it. We know it spreads to the wild and there is no cure.“

Sockeye you ask, "How does ISA ruin their "environment and fisheries" when it impacts only farmed Atlantic Salmon and no other fish species has been found to die from it. Carry it yes, but not succumb to it?"

“The ISA virus is an emerging viral pathogen. Based on biochemical, physical, chemical, and structural characterization, ISA virus is very similar to members of the "flu" family (influenza or orthomyxovirus family). Some basic flu virus family principles can be applied when trying to understand the ISA virus. The first general characteristic is that the ISA virus can mutate and evolve. The second is that the virus can change rapidly by recombination of ISA virus genetic elements. There is a significant molecular difference that exists between the "Norwegian," "Scottish," and "North American" ISA virus isolations.” http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/tnisa.html

Being classified and part of the flu family, it is subject to mutate and evolve, not only into something lethal to Pacific salmon, but could possible even mutate to a strain infectious to other species, yes even us!

Finally, if the Pacific salmon is eliminated from the Westcoast... you will destroy the whole environment as we know it! Nah… Sorry, while

I am not nor do I want to point any fingers or suggest ISA is now in your waters… but "no", I don’t think I will relax!

I still stand by - this is a “Very” dangerous disease you are playing with! And, the error needs to be on the side of "wild"!

Okay... that was more than 2 cents and I am done with my rant!

 

[sockeyefry]

Nice Rant Charlie,

I don't disagree with you that this is a very dangerous disease, but based on my research and experience with it, I do not believe it to be a threat to wild Oncho species. Problem with the research though is that it has only been done on farmed species of the oncho group, that being the coho, chinook and rainbow. Rainbow's and Coho can carry the disease, but even under farming conditions which decimate atlantics, they do not show clinical signs.

Are you are trying to say that the ISA virus could become the next "Swine Flu"? This is highly unlikely because the ISAV is attenuated by temperatures above 27 degrees. This of course is well below the body temperature of humans at 37. The ISAV would be "cooked" by our body temp before it was able to do anything. This is why it is so safe to eat Sushi, from a viral and bacterial pathogen standpoint. Not so much from a parasitic standpoint.

Regarding the MH fish losses, that is quite a number of fish on the surface, but when compared to the 6 - 7 million fish stocked per year it is really quite small percentage wise. However, I do not mean to belittle the losses as I am sure that MH would not want to lose any fish as it means lost revenue. To my knowledge fish losses in BC are mnainly due to environmental concerns such as algae blooms and low DO events. Bacterial diseases such as Furunc., and Vibrio have largely been controlled by the use of vaccines. Viral diseases are largely kept in check only though practising good husbandry and strict brood selection processes. However, there is a vaccine for IHN, Most fish in the Broughton are vaccinated with it. It is quite expensive, and its efficacy is unklnown due to the fact that there hasn't been an outbreak of IHN since the 90's. There is also an ISA vaccine, but I do not know how effective it is. By losses, I am assuming you mean mortalities, fish actually dying. The other source of inventory loss is of course an escape.

Which farms are importing eggs from NB? I know of requests that have gone into DFO, but they all have been turned down, and rightfully so as ISA is present in NB.

The Washington Farm you speak of as an egg supplier is probably Trout Lodge. They are a certified supplier of mainly trout eggs. They did have a line of salmon, but it was a strain that does not grow well in Farms. The trout are grown entirely in Freshwater, and do not come in contact with any saltwater. It is a captive brood site which completes the cycle without outside inputs of eggs or fry. In addition you have it backwards, the importation from Washington to Bc is subject to Canadian rules. Why would the minister ask Washington DC to relax Canadian standards?

I have been to Chile and observed their practises. I do not believe when I compare how farming was done in Chile compared to BC that there is a risk of ISA invading this coast. I standby this assertion because we do not have large scale unregulated importations of eggs form Norway or other regions that are ISA positive. As much as has been reported to the contrary, the industry in BC is very well run, and strictly regulated, when compared to other regions.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Are you are trying to say that the ISA virus could become the next "Swine Flu"? This is highly unlikely because the ISAV is attenuated by temperatures above 27 degrees. This of course is well below the body temperature of humans at 37. The ISAV would be "cooked" by our body temp before it was able to do anything. This is why it is so safe to eat Sushi, from a viral and bacterial pathogen standpoint. Not so much from a parasitic standpoint.

I am not! But rather any “virus” does mutate… and guess what, we can’t control that!

quote: Regarding the MH fish losses, that is quite a number of fish on the surface, but when compared to the 6 - 7 million fish stocked per year it is really quite small percentage wise.

If you total those numbers… that is almost 2 million we are looking at, just from Marine Harvest? Hmm… they don’t think it is “small”, check out their financial reports!

quote:There is also an ISA vaccine, but I do not know how effective it is.

Neither does anyone else. It is currently being tested in Canada, is it not?

quote:In addition you have it backwards, the importation from Washington to Bc is subject to Canadian rules. Why would the minister ask Washington DC to relax Canadian standards?

Nope, I don’t think so? It wasn’t Washington DC, it was Washington State. If you want it you can search for it, will come up on google… but again as I stated that was a few years back. As in “Gordon Slate” time frame. When the farms down here were owned by Marine Harvest!

quote: I standby this assertion because we do not have large scale unregulated importations of eggs form Norway or other regions that are ISA positive. As much as has been reported to the contrary, the industry in BC is very well run, and strictly regulated, when compared to other regions.

Well, I honed in on the, “we do not have “large” scale “unregulated”” importation” of eggs from Norway or other regions that are ISA positive.”

 

[sockeyefry]

Hey Charlie,

Yes that is 2 million, but over 3 years or out of 20 million fish. Any loss is significant, as it represents a fish that will not be harvested.


"...I am not! But rather any “virus” does mutate… and guess what, we can’t control that!..."

No you are right we cannot control viral mutation, and we can't stop the sky from falling either. I would be more worried about IHNV mutating. That one actually does kill Pacifics.


The ISAV vaccine was developed during the ISA out break in NB back in the late 90's, early 2000. Hard to tell if it works or not as they haven't had a significant outbreak since. So therefore was it the vaccine or was it simply that the virus impact has been mitigated by a change in farming technique. There is also a IHN vaccine, and again its effecticveness is difficult to judge as there hasn't been an outbreak of IHN in farms since the 90's.

Oh okay, my mistake. I thought you were talking about eggs coming from Washington State into BC.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

Hey Charlie,

Yes that is 2 million, but over 3 years or out of 20 million fish. Any loss is significant, as it represents a fish that will not be harvested.


"...I am not! But rather any “virus” does mutate… and guess what, we can’t control that!..."

No you are right we cannot control viral mutation, and we can't stop the sky from falling either. I would be more worried about IHNV mutating. That one actually does kill Pacifics.


The ISAV vaccine was developed during the ISA out break in NB back in the late 90's, early 2000. Hard to tell if it works or not as they haven't had a significant outbreak since. So therefore was it the vaccine or was it simply that the virus impact has been mitigated by a change in farming technique. There is also a IHN vaccine, and again its effecticveness is difficult to judge as there hasn't been an outbreak of IHN in farms since the 90's.

Oh okay, my mistake. I thought you were talking about eggs coming from Washington State into BC.

Check the dates of those loses?
Yea, I hear you... and the world is going to come to an end in 2012... I will take that bet and give you odds!
And, I do hear you and know what you are talking about with IHN! That also is serious! So, I guess I do agree on a couple of your points?
BUT,

quote:The ISAV vaccine was developed during the ISA out break in NB back in the late 90's, early 2000. Hard to tell if it works or not as they haven't had a significant outbreak since. So therefore was it the vaccine or was it simply that the virus impact has been mitigated by a change in farming technique.

Nope... I am not sure that is a true statement, "AT ALL"!
http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/aug03/030801f.asp

But, this one really, "kind of" does that statement and your comments in:
"Infectious salmon anemia (ISA) is a viral disease occurring in farmed Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) that is characterized by lethargy, anorexia, anemia and death. To control the disease in New Brunswick, Canada, 7.5 million fish from outbreak cages have been destroyed since 1997. Despite changes made by farmers, 2002 was the worst year ever for ISA losses in the region."</u>

Sorry, forgot to put my referance in!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=98702947e5d7351d6ef6190a154e2bf0

 

[sockeyefry]

Hey Charlie,

I was there when it happened, but not on the seas sites. Yes it did take a few years to get it under control.

Aquahealth, nowe Novartis developed the vaccine, and the insurance companies wanted everyone to use it or have no insurance. Lenders seem to want things like insurance so it was a choice of either putting an untested product in their fish or face foreclosure & bankruptcy. Sometimes farmers are forced by regulation or outside influence to do things that they know is wrong.

Problem was that NBDFA was using RT - PCR to detect populations which harboured the virus and were implementing removal strategies to reduce the impact and viral spread. Once a smolt was vaccinated, because it was attenuated viral particles, the PCR picked it up and a valuable preventative tool was redendered useless.