motor well design flaw?

[juandesooka]

Had a little drama Sat in the hali derby, with a whole bunch of water aboard. Worked out fine, but it could have gone bad pretty quick. Curious if anyone else has experienced similar with Campion 542 or similar -- boats that have a low transom. I think Trophy 1802 is similar.

I find the stern sits too low in the water, under the weight of the motor, kicker, gear, anglers, etc. The edge of the motor well sits just at water level and the entrance way for hoses, etc, gets washed with waves. A little water gets in the boat with each wave. If something goes wrong with bilge pump, and you don't check for a while, all of a sudden you have a full bilge and potentially some big problems. The water weighs the stern down quick, bringing hose entrance way to sea level, and then, no matter how good the diaphraghm, in comes the sea.

It happened once before, both times hali fishing. The prior time was back trolling, into the wind -- so wind waves hitting the stern.
I think the design flaw is the stern rides too low with weight of motors, and also that the entrance way for hoses should be higher.
Anyone have any experience with this?

After the first time, I had a plate put on the stern, to effectively raise motor well a few inches, to stop wave action coming in. But yesterday wind was at our bow at anchor, so no waves hitting directly....just sloshing water from the boat rocking. The other intention of the stern plate was to better seal the connection between upper and lower hulls at the motor well ... I think that's the other weak point in design, with the motor well at sea level, 1 bead of caulk is all that is keeping your boat afloat.

Suggestions? One key I think is to better seal the hose entrance way, surely there's a better way. Could take heavy stuff out of stern area (spare downrigger balls, etc) and move to cuddy for storage. Run with less fuel? (that has other problems ;-)

[BTW, the failure of bilge pump was due to clogged screen ... still had power, but not sucking water. I carry an auxiliary pump with a standalone battery (one of those cdn tire portable battery jumpers). That redundancy saved the day, can't recommend those battery units highly enough ... has saved the bacon numerous times.]

 

[casper5280]

I had the same problem on my old malibu. Ended up pulling all the steering and electrical and fuel lines out and putting a inspection plate over the hole and cutting a new hole higher up and also added boot. Also added a second bilge pump.No more problem

 

[juandesooka]

There you go....that's a great idea.

And yes, was also thinking of a 2nd built-in bilge pump for safety, separately wired direct to battery with a switch independent of boat's regular wiring, and also with a connection I can attach jumpers to, in case of emergency. Triple/quadruple redundancy!

 

[danthewire]

Double Eagle 185 has the same flaw.
Told Mark (Owner of DE} about it got the deer in the head lights look.
Seal it up, move the hole up,2 bile pumps, done.
Dan.

 

[Bret]

I think most of these boats where designed with lighter motors in mind. Move what you don't need into the bow, it will come on plane faster. You can get an accordian boot to run your wires thur and cover the hole.

I had a Trophy with the same issue...

Bret

 

[Gypseas]

How about a float switch wired to an alarm horn to minimize surprises?

 

[Hindsight]

Had a little drama Sat in the hali derby, with a whole bunch of water aboard. Worked out fine, but it could have gone bad pretty quick. Curious if anyone else has experienced similar with Campion 542 or similar -- boats that have a low transom. I think Trophy 1802 is similar.

I find the stern sits too low in the water, under the weight of the motor, kicker, gear, anglers, etc. The edge of the motor well sits just at water level and the entrance way for hoses, etc, gets washed with waves. A little water gets in the boat with each wave. If something goes wrong with bilge pump, and you don't check for a while, all of a sudden you have a full bilge and potentially some big problems. The water weighs the stern down quick, bringing hose entrance way to sea level, and then, no matter how good the diaphraghm, in comes the sea.

It happened once before, both times hali fishing. The prior time was back trolling, into the wind -- so wind waves hitting the stern.
I think the design flaw is the stern rides too low with weight of motors, and also that the entrance way for hoses should be higher.
Anyone have any experience with this?

After the first time, I had a plate put on the stern, to effectively raise motor well a few inches, to stop wave action coming in. But yesterday wind was at our bow at anchor, so no waves hitting directly....just sloshing water from the boat rocking. The other intention of the stern plate was to better seal the connection between upper and lower hulls at the motor well ... I think that's the other weak point in design, with the motor well at sea level, 1 bead of caulk is all that is keeping your boat afloat.

Suggestions? One key I think is to better seal the hose entrance way, surely there's a better way. Could take heavy stuff out of stern area (spare downrigger balls, etc) and move to cuddy for storage. Run with less fuel? (that has other problems ;-)

[BTW, the failure of bilge pump was due to clogged screen ... still had power, but not sucking water. I carry an auxiliary pump with a standalone battery (one of those cdn tire portable battery jumpers). That redundancy saved the day, can't recommend those battery units highly enough ... has saved the bacon numerous times.]

Time for a Hourston , Bilge alarm set up right will give you a warning its flooding

 

[juandesooka]

Talked to a coast guard buddy this evening, that's what he recommended Gypseas ... high water alarm. Also having a manual 3 foot pump aboard ... when all else fails, it's more efficient than bailing.

He also told me of a guy whose boat was taking on water, he ran his battery dry with pump, so couldn't start motor or use his vhf. Something went wrong with his cell phone, so that's out too. He had 3 flares, first one he shot off but it misfired and somehow cut his hand...super, now he's bleeding too. 2nd flare fizzled. 3rd and final flare he sits in the slowly sinking boat until he sees a boat on horizon, then shoots it off, gets rescued. Moral of the story ... if you have only 1 flare left, wait until you're sure someone is going to see it!

 

[Hindsight]

just bought a ACR PLB for the boat instead of a EPRIB, just in case. Still Hourston is a need not a want.

 

[finaddict]

just bought a ACR PLB for the boat instead of a EPRIB, just in case. Still Hourston is a need not a want.

Yep got the same one, along with DSC VHF, Immersion suits and cannister life raft and a dozen or so flares. Its never enough, but its still a good feeling of confidence that if things go REAL bad, I should be able to get back somehow.

 

[wolf]

Well that guy sounds like a matenace issue a bildge doesnt draw a lot of power to kill a battery if its charged up, sounds like a lot of factors involved there imo.

2 bildges one of them automatic and seal up that hole!!!!
same thing happened to one of the lodge boats a double eagle...... as the "smokers" up there always "try" to quit ??? weird?? every fishing season and they chew on spitts all day instead and YEP got clogged up boat sank from a following sea very scary.

Got to keep up to your boat making sure everything is running in tip top shape!!!!!!!! see it all the time and always comes down to lack of mataining a boat..... lesson learned im sure

 

[juandesooka]

yup, point taken Roy. The culprit in my case was leaf mulch from a winter on trailer in my yard. Cleaning out that bilge would have avoided this problem. BUT, if any good comes of this kind of thing, it's increased awareness and shaking off that complacency ... got to be more on top of systems, especially early in the season when shaking things out. Can't afford to be casual about this stuff, lesson learned (re-learned in my case)

Thinking it over, another factor to consider for anchoring newbies ... most of the morning the current and wind were in same direction, so it was bouncy, but not a following sea. So some splashing into motor well from rocking boat, but not big water. Then tide switched to flood, but still with east wind, with boat close to neutral on the anchor line and gear straight down. But while seas still looked like they were approaching from the east, it's confused, as current is coming from west and I realize now that with this switch more water was now coming over the motor well. Murphy's law being what it is, that's when pump craps out, and maybe just half an hour to an hour from last time checking the bilge, it's FULL. My coast guard buddy says that boating disasters are most commonly 3 things going wrong in sequence ... for me, if aux pump didn't work I think that would have been #3.

 

[Foxsea]

I had the same problem on my old malibu. Ended up pulling all the steering and electrical and fuel lines out and putting a inspection plate over the hole and cutting a new hole higher up and also added boot. Also added a second bilge pump.No more problem

X2 - My Tyee with kicker and batteries, sat low in the water. Definitely have a sealed boot no matter what. I thought of getting heavy cables made so I could have moved the batteries to the forward storage compartment, with heavy amp fuses, a vent and and a shelf over. That would have twice the effect on trim - 1) removing weight; 2) repositioning it forward.

Sold the boat - I'm thinking I should do that for my son-in-law...

 

[Clipper]

I checked my 542 after reading this post and agree that they should have put the hole for the cables etc. up higher however mine is completely sealed with a rubber boot and there has never been any water intrusion into the bilge. No boot would be a potential problem, for sure.

 

[Foxsea]

I checked my 542 after reading this post and agree that they should have put the hole for the cables etc. up higher however mine is completely sealed with a rubber boot and there has never been any water intrusion into the bilge. No boot would be a potential problem, for sure.

If you don't have a boot, or it's (often) too small, get one of the rubber plumbing vent flashings for a roof. They are cheap, really tough and flexible, made for outdoor exposure and have "steps, so they'll accept anything from 1-1/2" to 3" in diameter and fit snugly. Cut the lower flange down if you need to, put it through the (neat) transom well cut-out from the inside, bolt it through, seal it and then put a hose clamp around the area near the wire/cable penetration.

I haven't needed to but for a water-tight seal, after wires and cables are positioned correctly, you could fill the boot cavity with spray foam from the back. Tape the cables / wires up so you can get them out without the foam gluing to them.

 

[juandesooka]

Foxsea: those are EXCELLENT suggestions that I will be pursuing. I was just out looking at boot on my boat ... the boot has a big hole in the middle where the hoses have spread it, from all the different pressures of things moving around. Like cheap rain gear or watches, I'd call it "water resistant" but not "water proof" ... it might protect from a little splashing or a little rain, but not from pounding seas. Your modification looks more like the heavy duty application needed here.

 

[Foxsea]

Foxsea: those are EXCELLENT suggestions that I will be pursuing. Your modification looks more like the heavy duty application needed here.

Thanks! However, any good judgement has usually come to me as a result of my earlier, poor judgement.
I have used this fix twice and it has stood up well for many years - over 11 on my Tyee. The OEM parts seem inadequate for this critical application.

 

[wolf]

thats what we did to spray foam but remeber not to use a lot the guide that did it to that boat had that shiat every where LOL LOL
you just want to seal it.

 

[Shepnoir]

Use a spray bottle filled with water if the foam starts to creep and get messy. The water retards the expanding properties of the foam.

 

[wolf]

COOL i didnt know that....