More on white springs from AK

[searun]

Those "marbled" fish are lower Fraser fish, mostly Harrison. The reason for the marbled flesh is actually addressed in the original article posted. Of course it would be more sexy if the Russians were developing a secret cross breeding program aimed at taking down the Western free world chinook fishery.

 

[kronic_fisherguy]

cross breeding???
Is there a story I don't know? I have no idea they have ever cross bred them.
Perhaps we need some expert help here with this question.

I am refer to hybridization naturally occurring or possibly in a hatchery situation. From what I have read anyway there are documented hybridCoho/Chinooks. I recall there were fish disqualified in the Port Alberni Coho only derby as there were ruled Chinooks after opening them up. I wasn't there but heard from reliable sources. So why isn't it possible that White and red spring spawn and mix the genes that cause Marbling? Just asking and will ask at work tomorrow.

 

[agentaqua]

Excellent question kf.

My (limited) understanding is that the "red" colour in the flesh comes from the carotenid astaxanthin (as other posters such as searun and CL have already commented on); while the "marbling" comes from fats/lipids in between the fibers of the telomeres of the muscles. That's why farmed Atlantics have much "marbling" - as they are really couch potatoes fed potato chips....

Having said that: it is possible that the accumulation of pigments in the flash may happen over time - as a diet changes and food items with the pigments are consumed seasonally - and different components of muscles/tissues absorb pigments faster/slower than other areas - so a "patchwork" of accumulated pigments occurs over a time of diet change. I haven't seen anything specific about these changes wrt published info.

There is a genetic component - of course - but I would bet that the genetic component affects more of the life history of the animal - where it can be found when (e.g. river-type verses ocean-type Chinook) - and what feed animals it encounters and consumes - which affects the quantities and types of pigments consumed (in this case with Chinook - krill and the carotenid astaxanthin) - rather than the ability of the animal to absorb the pigments - but maybe both happen.

In this case "mixing" gene pools between Chinook and coho - or even between so-called "white" and "red" Chinook - would not necessarily produce marbling.

Again - I have not seen any science on this - but interesting questions none-the-less....

P.S: r.s.craven: do you find the whites smell like yellow cedar?

 

[Rum Buddies]

Excellent question kf.

My (limited) understanding is that the "red" colour in the flesh comes from the carotenid astaxanthin (as other posters such as searun and CL have already commented on); while the "marbling" comes from fats/lipids in between the fibers of the telomeres of the muscles.

A marbled chinook is different then a fish with red flesh and fat marbeling - like how you would describe a steak. A "marble" looks like some of the flesh is all white and some of the flesh is pink, usually a lighter pink then the deep red you see in some chinook.


Also FYI Telomeres are the end caps for DNA strands - you can't see them, nor will there be visible fat between them.

 

[kronic_fisherguy]

A marbled chinook is different then a fish with red flesh and fat marbeling - like how you would describe a steak. A "marble" looks like some of the flesh is all white and some of the flesh is pink, usually a lighter pink then the deep red you see in some chinook.


Also FYI Telomeres are the end caps for DNA strands - you can't see them, nor will there be visible fat between them.

Rodger that Rum Buddies! A patch work quilt effect.
A genetic research scientist on site was extremely interested when I asked the question and is going to do some research on the hybridization and or cross breeding theory we have touched here. Fact or fiction mystery or "Russian plot" as it may be! His field is genetics and actually cross breeding so I think I asked the right guy. Interesting field and inquisitive minds . Now are there any Chinooks. White, red or marbled or Coho , Coho/Chinooks around ? They all go in a can the same.

Tight lines Kronic

 

[UkeeDreamin]

A graduate student (from Waterloo, I believe) is studying Red and White Chinook at the Quesnel River Research Center as the Quesnel population has both red and white chinook and the centre has converted old hatchery raceways into closed spawning channels ideal for conducting many experiments. As carotenids are known to enhance the immune system, it is thought that their storage is beneficial to salmonids, which begs the question how and why white-fleshed, non-carotenid storing, chinook persist, particularly in systems with both red-fleshed and white-fleshed individuals. I believe she is looking at mate selection (early indication is that red females tend to spawn with red males but white females are more indiscriminate), difference in egg survival (as eggs from white females also lack pigment and may have a lower predation mortality) and rates of heterozygosity between the groups across a number of genes as increased heterozygosity (i.e. number of different genes an individual carries) is also linked to increased fitness (I understand that early results are showing higher rates of heterozygosity in white-fleshed individuals).

I believe this fall is the last of her field work/research so her masters thesis paper should be published in the upcoming year and add to the limited science available on this topic.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[kronic_fisherguy]

Extremely interesting and people in the know in my world digging into it! I got confirmation on the existence of Coho/Chinook also Coho/Sockeye hybrids! Really curios now! Any body have any information on the bright yellow spots on some salmon? What and or why?!

Kronic

 

[searun]

Highly interested in getting a copy of the research paper when complete, please keep us in the loop Ukee. Very interesting topic indeed. I suspect the theory being tested is whites have higher survival rate over reds.