Migration Routes

Charlie

Charlie

Well-Known Member
I finally found it and you are going to love watching this! :D:D[8D]

I have known this exsisted for several years, but couldn't find it. This information exsists for all tagged fish under the "Post" program! If you notice the bottom left hand corner, it shows the date! The name of the article is: Survival of Migrating Salmon Smolts in Large Rivers With and Without Dams at: http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0060265#pbio-0060265-b017

This is the intro to the vidio:
Video S1. Movement of Tagged Snake River Spring Chinook (2006) and Thompson River Spring Chinook and Steelhead (2005–2006) over the POST Array

The array is shown in magenta. In some cases, movements have been specified as straight lines because of uncertainty as to the exact path chosen. This animation has been created using the XVid open source codec; the codec can be uploaded from http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/ if the animation is not visible.

Here is the link you have to watch:
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/...i=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0060265.sv001

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS FOR THE FRASER RIVER SOCKEYE!!!!!!
 
Interesting read, better survival through the Columbia/Snake with all its dams than the Fraser until they hit the fresh/salt water interface.
Wonder why? As do the researchers.

Are sockeye smolts big enough to carry a tag?
 
Great post Charlie!

The P.O.S.T. project has really shown some fascinating results and is helping better understand outmigration patterns.

Few years back they found a California origin sturgeon crossing the arrays on the Fraser, HA!

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
“This is on their way out? That is kinda cool...would love to see the version for on their way in!!!”
This is on their way out. Post has the capability of activating and deactivating their tags to save battery life, so they do have that capability, but since salmon pretty much follow the same route back they probably don’t see the need?

"better survival through the Columbia/Snake with all its dams than the Fraser until they hit the fresh/salt water interface. Wonder why? As do the researchers.”
The belief is due to the smolts being larger?

“Are sockeye smolts big enough to carry a tag?”
Yes, in fact there were some Fraser Sockeye tagged between 2004 – 2007! That is why I stated I would love to see the information on them. That could be VERY interesting. If you look at the Thompson River salmon and steelhead, notice where the “Post” tracking “Final known location” is, that would be just north of Campbell River on June 15th... is that a coincidence? If I am not mistaken those salmon migrate to SEAK? I don’t know, but it might be worth finding out? If Post tracked the Sockeye and they disappeared just north of Campbell River… THAT WOULD BE VERY EMBARRASSING TO SOME!
 
'THAT WOULD BE VERY EMBARRASSING TO SOME!' Salmon smolts disappearing just north of Campbell River? [:0]

No not embarrasing at all. I am sure there are 'scientists' that could prove sea lice were in fact de-activating the POST tags and draining their batteries but actually had no effect on the smolts health.
[}:)]:D;)

God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
So far POST has pretty much only resulted in data for outmigrating salmon, Charlie. Theoretically the batteries might last for some early returners but reality is there are very few that do last that long. May it be only due to the fact that only a small percentage juveniles receive the tags and naturally 9X% never survive, or due to the technology limitations. BTW, salmon do not necessarily follow the same route back. In fact many travel in large circle patterns through the Pacific.
 
Charlie is there more proof of this as a 1 year study doesn`t really mean ****e, but I do agree it does make sense, as for a earlier post 18ft seas and a 1 min. interval where do you see this kind of sea as I sail most of the world and this is hard to figure, as I am just looking at some old posts.
 
quote:Originally posted by quicksilver11

Charlie is there more proof of this as a 1 year study doesn`t really mean ****e, but I do agree it does make sense, as for a earlier post 18ft seas and a 1 min. interval where do you see this kind of sea as I sail most of the world and this is hard to figure, as I am just looking at some old posts.
Click to expand...
Very big smile... You are kidding, right! :D:D:D
Here is the post: http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13360&SearchTerms=18,foot
quote: “I look for 5-8 foot tides, just my preference, but that is NOT "swells" or "sea state". Yes, take it to the "bank", as far as "swells", but the bigger swells does not mean the bigger the sea state?... the bigger the tide swing, which is effected by the moon does effect the size of the swells, usually storms effect the sea state! But it is NOT the size, as much as the interval? I am very okay, with having 18 foot swells @ 1 minute interval verses I would hate an 8 foot swell @ a 2 second interval? The closer the swells usually mean the higher the sea state, which equals "storm"! As the swells start spacing out... the storm has passed!”
Click to expand...

That statement was regarding swells – NOT seas and it was used as an example! :D:D </u>

But, sense you brought it up, Yes, I have been in 18+ foot swells, I really don't remember the interval of them. I have also been in 18+ foot seas - and if one is really dumb enough and want to see what 18 foot seas look like, go for it! All you need to do is for a storm or hurricane! You will find both, swells and seas 18+ foot - real quick! Did you know the safest place for a self-righting sailboat in a hurricane is not tied to a dock, but offshore, go for it… it’s a trip! Button it up, tie the tiller off, go down below - and start drinking! Also, search my posts? I think you will see the worst weather I ever discussed on this forum was Nootka Sound 2004. Once you find it, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. :D:D:D

As far as this study... I didn't do the study! Wish I had, as I would have nailed DFO to the cross over the Fraser Sockeye! [:0][:0][}:)][}:)]

Again, I think you need to re-look at the chart. The information concerning BC is based on more than “1 year” of data, since it says right on the chart, 2005 and 2006? But, if you like go to the Post website to verify and check the stats yourself! Post doesn’t have that nice animated chart, but all the information can be downloaded in excel. Then can be printed out, or chartet! Cheers - Have fun!
 
As you said Charlie 18 ft sea 1 min interval I have sailed in 90% of the waters in the world and haven`t seen it ya I know what they look like!!!
 
quote:Originally posted by quicksilver11

As you said Charlie 18 ft sea 1 min interval I have sailed in 90% of the waters in the world and haven`t seen it ya I know what they look like!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the PM, quicksilver - I understand your point! [:eek:)]
So, for clarification, as you are talking about the interval being @ 1 minute, I want to make sure there no misunderstanding and I am still leaving it bigger... that interval was used as an example, only! and to emphasis the difference and importance between swell height and interval!! :D:D:D

It still has nothing to do with "this thread", but thanks for bringing your point to my attention! It is valid! :D
 
quote:Originally posted by nedarb2

quote:Originally posted by chris73

BTW, salmon do not necessarily follow the same route back. In fact many travel in large circle patterns through the Pacific.
Click to expand...

before coming back into the coastal area the same way they went out to return to the rivers?? they do large circle loop(s?) during their life cycle/migration http://www.bcsalmon.ca/Resources/wildsalmon/pages/BC salmon migration chart.htm
Click to expand...
Well I guess you can interpret some of the following information as you wish, but here are the facts! At least as I know them! :)

The last sheet is a 2005 report from Alaska concerning the SEAK Troll Fleet, so when you look at it, it is NOT the current TAC, but for reference on what and whose Chinooks they were harvesting. Once you look at it you can see one reason this was a good year! I got to catch some of our good old Washington fish! :D :D

Alaska did just publish their 2009 Bristol Bay Salmon Season Summary. I warn you, if you look at it you will probably cry, but here it is: http://www.cf.adfg.state.ak.us/region2//finfish/salmon/bbay/brbpos09.pdf

Concerning the migration questions, this may help with the answers, so here you go! It is as current of information I can find! If anyone has more current information, please share!

There are two distinct types or races among Chinook salmon, which have evolved:

“One race, described as a "stream-type" Chinook, is found most commonly in headwater streams of large river systems. Stream-type Chinook salmon have a longer freshwater residency, and perform extensive offshore migrations in the central North Pacific </u> before returning to their birth, or natal, streams in the spring or summer months. Stream-type juveniles are much more dependent on freshwater stream ecosystems because of their extended residence in these areas. A stream-type life history may be adapted to areas that are more consistently productive and less susceptible to dramatic changes in water flow. At the time of saltwater entry, stream-type (yearling) smolts are much larger, averaging 3 to 5.25 inches (73-134 mm) depending on the river system, than their ocean-type (subyearling) counterparts, and are therefore able to move offshore relatively quickly.”

These are the fish that will be in the lower center area of the chart and they will be inside the Continental Shelf, also as the chart shows. Some of all our fish do migrate there. They swim with the currents and Chris I agree with 100%, "In fact many travel in large circle patterns through the Pacific.", I believe that has been proven several times! Which is also probably why we think the are moving? They are, they are following the currents and the bait! A lot of these fish from Washington are the ones that never migrate past the north end of VI and do reside on the WCVI banks.

“The second race, called the "ocean-type" Chinook, is commonly found in coastal streams in North America. Ocean-type Chinook typically migrate to sea within the first three months of life, but they may spend up to a year in freshwater prior to emigration to the sea. They also spend their ocean life in coastal waters. Ocean-type Chinook salmon return to their natal streams or rivers as spring, winter, fall, summer, and late-fall runs, but summer and fall runs predominate.</u> Ocean-type Chinook salmon tend to use estuaries and coastal areas more extensively than other pacific salmonids for juvenile rearing. The evolution of the ocean-type life history strategy may have been a response to the limited carrying capacity of smaller stream systems and unproductive watersheds, or a means of avoiding the impact of seasonal floods. Ocean-type Chinook salmon tend to migrate along the coast. Populations of Chinook salmon south of the Columbia River drainage appear to consist predominantly of ocean-type fish.”

These are our biggies! The primary “ocean-type” Chinook along the coasts based on the SEAK Troll, are mostly from Oregon and Washington coasts, Upper Columbia River summer and fall stocks, Thompson River (during the month of July), and SEAK. Chinook from the Oregon and Washington coasts and Thompson River are the larger, more mature and the largest. Chinook from the Upper Columbia summer and fall stocks are present as both immature and maturing. Chinook salmon from the Lower Columbia, Willamette River, Puget Sound, coastal British Columbia, and SEAK were noted as smaller, less mature individuals. They also travel with the currents in a large circular pattern, but can also be found very close to shore!

The whole article is here: http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/fish/chinooksalmon.htm#distribution



CHINOOK MIGRATION FOR ALL STOCKS & ALL COUNTRIES NOAA STUDIES, COMPLETED IN 2007!</u>!

chinooksalmon.jpg



THIS IS ONLY THE SEAK CHINOOK TROLL HARVEST!</u>

salmonmigration.jpg
 
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