John Duncan Statement on Halibut Allocation - Sept.7, 2011

[BearCove]

No breaks on fuel, are you kidding? My father owns the Petro Canada in Port Hardy, I know for a fact that the commerical fishermen get discounts, sometimes big discounts if they are fishing for or charging to big companies. The rec sector pays top price!

 

[searun]

No breaks on fuel, are you kidding? My father owns the Petro Canada in Port Hardy, I know for a fact that the commerical fishermen get discounts, sometimes big discounts if they are fishing for or charging to big companies. The rec sector pays top price!

True, and you can apply for the commercial discount.

 

[BearCove]

In order to get a commercial discount you need to have " Custom Clearance" only commercial operators can apply for it. Guides are not considered commercial in this area even know they have a commercial licenses. They all have to buy C license and operate under commercial laws but do not get the benefits

 

[fish4all]

I stand corrected I phoned the fuel barge here and there is a big discount for commercial vessels. $.04/liter.

So my next question is since there is no guiding license, if one was created could it not be created in a fashion that makes the vessel available for commercial rates?

 

[fish4all]

Back on topic.
fish4all do you have a problem with cutting back on how much Canadian halibut leaves the country to supply foreign commercial markets. Do you not see why this is wrong when guys like me are told to get off the water because the foreign markets take priority to my needs. The solution is clear to me, revoke quota from people that by there own choice do not fish. Give that quota to people that do fish. You know guys like you and me. Makes perfect sense to me, fishing quota for fisherman not for market speculators.

GLG
By the buy you still owe me a case of beer or a few drinks in the pub.
Will collect when this is over.

If this is ever done I will gladly buy many drinks.

First, i have stated before that i do not support investors holding quota.

Next i would ask who decides whom is an investor? Is it someone outside the industry that has invested money looking for a return? A retired fisherman that is either to old to fish or perhaps during these low tac's cannot afford to fish?The natives that own 18-20% of the quota but have yet to be equipped with boats?

My remarks on exporting:

Do I think it is fair that 60-70% of the halibut allocated to you has been taken by lodges and charters that cater to non-canadian residents? No
Do I think it is fair that some Americans can bring there boats here, run illegal charter businesses and take advantage of our waters? No
Do I think it is fair that there are fish plants in the north that cater to shipping fish out of province and country so their clients can continue to fish? No
Do I think it right that a guide can gift his fish to a tourist so that tourist can exceed his/her limit and, i would assume give a generous cash gift? No

Are these the foreign markets you were pointing at that are taking your fish? Do you feel that these foreign markets should come before someones need to earn a living?

My next question would be, what exactly are your needs? Are you feeding your house,your extended family, your block, the carpenter, the mechanic? How many halibut does a person need?

Before you start trying to take away someones lively hood it would be nice to clean some of this up, sit down over a few bevy's with some true facts and find a solution.

 

[Derby]

I see your making friends again fish4all...

 

[Gunsmith]

Pattison, not the real commercial halibut fishermen. This is my beef.

 

[searun]

I stand corrected I phoned the fuel barge here and there is a big discount for commercial vessels. $.04/liter.

So my next question is since there is no guiding license, if one was created could it not be created in a fashion that makes the vessel available for commercial rates?

Think it's a tad more than that, but regardless it would save me $600 a year.

 

[chris73]

If this is ever done I will gladly buy many drinks.

First, i have stated before that i do not support investors holding quota.

Next i would ask who decides whom is an investor? Is it someone outside the industry that has invested money looking for a return? A retired fisherman that is either to old to fish or perhaps during these low tac's cannot afford to fish?The natives that own 18-20% of the quota but have yet to be equipped with boats?

My remarks on exporting:

Do I think it is fair that 60-70% of the halibut allocated to you has been taken by lodges and charters that cater to non-canadian residents? No
Do I think it is fair that some Americans can bring there boats here, run illegal charter businesses and take advantage of our waters? No
Do I think it is fair that there are fish plants in the north that cater to shipping fish out of province and country so their clients can continue to fish? No
Do I think it right that a guide can gift his fish to a tourist so that tourist can exceed his/her limit and, i would assume give a generous cash gift? No

Are these the foreign markets you were pointing at that are taking your fish? Do you feel that these foreign markets should come before someones need to earn a living?

My next question would be, what exactly are your needs? Are you feeding your house,your extended family, your block, the carpenter, the mechanic? How many halibut does a person need?

Before you start trying to take away someones lively hood it would be nice to clean some of this up, sit down over a few bevy's with some true facts and find a solution.

You are so full of it, as usual. Lodges and guides take next to nothing themselves - they allow other fellow Canadians and foreigners to fish. Those foreign tourists spent huge amounts of money for one or two halibuts they can take each. I doubt there is any better economic return on those halibut caught and taken by foreign tourists using local charters or lodges to get the fish. All the other "factors" you listed are so insignificant that it is not even worth talking about it. A single long-line haul has likely more impact. Where does that leave your arguments? Redundant. Thanks for letting me clear this up so easily.

 

[searun]

Tx Chris, as usual a whole line of bs coming from f 4 all. About the only thing I can agree with is stop the illegal guiding from the US guys. Needs to be regulated. I also agree there needs to be a guide license to accompany my C license. What f 4 all forgets too is guides simply provide the ability for ordinary Canadian (and other) citizens to access the fishery unlike what happens on the east coast where there is NO recreational fishery, and even guides are commercial fishermen and the catch is sold as a part of their quota. Ever seen them fish for blue fin tuna...they call in when a fish is hooked, get a commercial tag number and that fish is recorded against a commercial license along with the catch is sold at market...so the guest never gets any fish. Robbery. If we went the f 4 all way, we would have the same bs going on here. Stand up and fight for your right to fish...or suffer the fate of what f 4 all wants to see happen with your fishery.

 

[gamechanger]

Guide licenses would solve a lot of issues, but me thinks would be seen by many as controversial...what do you think are the pro's and cons of a guide license and do you think the DFO should be licensing guides?

 

[DHA]

Guide licenses would solve a lot of issues, but me thinks would be seen by many as controversial...what do you think are the pro's and cons of a guide license and do you think the DFO should be licensing guides?

Brad, being that you are a member of DFO with input capabilities, perhaps you can give us a perspective that would show the direction that DFO would like it to go first. Then we can all ponder DFO's directive and see if it meshes with our position. Further I suggest that the guides assoc's take this to their members first, prior to answering an open public dialog that may kick the sports industry in the butt if they are not cautious with their public words and views.

DHA.

 

[gamechanger]

DHA, from what I know the Department doesn't have a direction, or if it does the minions like myself that work on the island don't know about it yet. If people think that discussing this at a meeting/meetings with the guides associations would be better than lets do that. We could talk about this through your local SFAC (Sport Fishing Advisory Committee) meetings too, which will be coming up in the fall. There's 10 committees on the South Coast that I will be meeting with Sept-Nov. I think its a conversation worth having.

I always want to hear what you guys in the industry think especially with topics like this because people in DFO think about them, and when I talk with other people in the department, who don't have the background in recreational fisheries that I do, it keeps things in perspective (for everybody).

gc

 

[DHA]

Maybe a seperate thread...what do you think?

It's best not to hijack threads, your observation is correct.

DHA.

 

[GLG]

Back on topic and I think Fish4all deserves to be answered by me as he does bring up points that need addressing. Tad late but I have been busy lately.

First, i have stated before that i do not support investors holding quota.

We agree on this point and if you can get Chris Sporer, manager of the Pacific Halibut Management Association (PHMA) which speaks for B.C. commercial halibut fishermen on side that would help.

Next i would ask who decides whom is an investor? Is it someone outside the industry that has invested money looking for a return? A retired fisherman that is either to old to fish or perhaps during these low tac's cannot afford to fish?The natives that own 18-20% of the quota but have yet to be equipped with boats?

Simple answer is the people that fish, not stand on shore waiting for the mailman to deliver a cheque. Not the guys with 12 foot boats that claim they fish. Quota for fisherman period. Use it or lose it, no renting allowed, as it’s not yours to do so. After all it belongs to the people of Canada.

My remarks on exporting
Do I think it is fair that 60-70% of the halibut allocated to you has been taken by lodges and charters that cater to non-canadian residents? No

I call BS as the fact is that over 70% of the lodge and charter clients are Canadians. I would like to remind you that your sector ships 80% outside of Canada. Do the math where is the Canadian Halibut TAC going. Yup the vast majority leaves the country.

Do I think it is fair that some Americans can bring there boats here, run illegal charter businesses and take advantage of our waters? No

That’s an enforcement issue and not an allocation issue and has no place in this discussion. Bringing this forward only shows your weak position.

Do I think it is fair that there are fish plants in the north that cater to shipping fish out of province and country so their clients can continue to fish? No

Are you saying that our Alberta or American friends are breaking our laws when they come here and go over their limits? I call BS as I know for a fact that they respect our laws when they holiday here just like we do when we go there. Besides this is an enforcement issue and not an allocation issue and has no bearing on this subject.

Do I think it right that a guide can gift his fish to a tourist so that tourist can exceed his/her limit and, i would assume give a generous cash gift? No

If a guide gives a fish to a client with no strings attached I have no problem with that. If he expects to get paid for a fish then that’s against the rules and it becomes an enforcement problem, not an allocation issue. Again not relevant to this subject.

Are these the foreign markets you were pointing at that are taking your fish? Do you feel that these foreign markets should come before someones need to earn a living?

Why yes your commercial foreign markets are taking my fish. That’s my whole point. It’s wrong to have a commercial foreign markets needs come before my needs. After all this is the Canadian TAC we are talking about is it not.

My next question would be, what exactly are your needs? Are you feeding your house,your extended family, your block, the carpenter, the mechanic? How many halibut does a person need?

Glad you asked, as I need 2 a day and a possession limit of 4.
What right do you have to say what I do with the fish I have caught? As long as I don’t sell or barter it you have no say in what I do with it. If I what to give someone a fish I will do so. Your job is to supply the Canadian commercial market not poking your nose in my personal business. If there is Canadian TAC left over than I am not opposed to you supplying foreign commercial markets. Of course after me and my fellow Canadians needs have been meet.

Before you start trying to take away someones lively hood it would be nice to clean some of this up, sit down over a few bevy's with some true facts and find a solution.

I’m not messing with anyone’s lively hood (sp?), I’m just trying to point out the fact that the allocation is unbalanced between the Canadian sectors. When the recreational sector is being told to get off the water because the foreign commercial market needs come first, Yup I have a problem. What would you say if you went to you local lumberyard and they said, sorry but we shipped all the 2X4 to foreign markets as they come first? How about if you went to the gas station and were told the same thing with fuel. I know what I would say.

If taking allocation away from your sector affects your business then I would suggest you look at your sector and find a way to rationalize (gov speak) your fleet. May I be so bold as to say, give the quota to the real fishermen and no quota to speculators in the Halibut market. Clean up your act and you will find there is plenty of Canadian TAC to go around for all Canadians. If you need support from my sector I will be there as well as many on this board. But until I stop seeing halibut being exported and I’m told to get off the water, well we will have a problem between us.

Last I checked the commercial sector is closed November 16 and they still have 2 million pounds left in the water. That amount represents more than double what the rest of us Canadians were allowed this year. If caught this will be shipped to foreign commercial markets and yes I sit here and only wish I could go out and try to fish for one. Had friends call from Alberta to ask if it was still open, sorry boys the season is done call back in February or March maybe April. Where did all the Halibut go? Well you might know what I told them. Yup exported, as we Canadians aren't first on the list.

GLG