But PDO occurred 150 years ago as well and there are reports that the Fraser alone was home to 100 million Sockeye every year. And we thought 30 million were a lot in 2010! Add to that millions of Chinook and Coho and many more millions of Pinks and Chum and multiply that by the number of great salmon rivers we had from California up to Alaska! I don't think there is any hatchery production today that can mimic that. The ocean has a huge potential. Of course, as sharphooks mentioned, natural up and down cycles always happened. Only today it cycles tight around the critical minimum survival line.