Has everyone had enough of kicking the crap out of each other?

[fish4all]

Originally Posted by searun

Maybe to take the opposite view, lets examine what a world would look like if we actually followed the vision some have advanced here suggesting we split off the guides and lodges into a fully commercial fishery. Wonder what that would look like? We should think about a few possibilities....

What if we made the guide/lodge a fully commercial operation and licensed them the way we do the commercial fishing sector?

What if? well that would free up a lot of the 15% for the actual rec fishery for one. Come to think of it, if we removed you guys from the equation we could probably get by with 5% and have full season of 2/3 of halibut, kill wild coho, and a whole multitude of benefits. If you think this would be a good thing for guides and lodges please fill me in. I don't think most of the current operations could afford the licensing. And while we are going down that road, let make sure they get all the great benefits of being a commercial operator. One board observers, on board cameras, mandatory checks at port for every trip, purchase of by catch quota, mandatory log books, etc etc and of course the cost that is associated with all of that. This would also eliminate any cash jobs, as every trip would have to be tracked.

What might happen if the commercial fishing industry and guide/lodge operators teamed up to take ITQ quota away from the recreational sector?

with what money? other then the big shots in the industry, joe blow guide cant afford quota. Your idea would be to have guides buy up rock fish quota? halibut quota? Salmon etc? I know salmon is not itq, but you are now commercial so you gotta pay to catch those to! It is to much to pass on to the consumer in the price of a trip, and just eating the cost is not feesible I don't think



Could the recreational sector without the guide/lodge group match those resources, attend those meetings, help influence things that benefit recreational fishing if they go it alone?

With the right leader, not only could they match the resources, they would bury the industry. I am sure there is a fair bit of money in the industry and some smart folks, But I would venture to say there is ALOT more money and the resources to match in the pockets of some of the guys paying to be on those boats. I am not sure that is a bear you should poke. Think about all of the successful people that pay to go fishing and the money and people behind them. You really want to go up against that?

If the recreational sector lost a lot of the highly talented volunteers who come from the guide/lodge group, how would we replace that talent?
See answer above

bingo... excellent remarks

 

[searun]

I see both sides, but I think people need to see the big picture. There are tons of things going behind the scenes to protect our fisheries.

If we split up rec/guide/lodges , and don't work together it is not a good thing. We also need to get off the computer and meet face to face. It is so easy on here to blurt out stuff anonymously and not get called on it. The people that support us work hard on a daily basis on there own time not on forums but working in groups to solve these problems.

If you think you can do better I encourage any of you to contact your local chairs and ask to help. Maybe if you listen to them by speaking with them you would understand why things are the way they are. I for one would like it if we could all get along on here. We all want the same thing...

There is no conspiracy theory here. Our fishery is a complexed issue and not easy to solve. You can blame DFO for that. These guys that volunteer are softening the blow for us and trying to give us opportunities with what we are given. Without them we would be a major mistake.

Totally agree - especially getting together face to face and working through some of these issues. These computer forums are highly impersonal and it is far too easy to take a remark completely out of context. I think (maybe naively) the more we can spend time together listening to one another, getting better informed, the easier it will be to find our way through these issues. I think we are on to something here.

 

[Sculpin]

I agree as well. The in fighting and flat out personal attacks on the fishing forums against sports fisher to sport fisher is completely non productive and does absolutely nothing positive for the cause. The commercial sector feeds off of this type of behavior. I am trying my best to get out to these meetings to meet more and more folks in person, face to face, to help come up with some solutions to the problems.

I will continue to encourage others to do the same.

 

[GLG]

Splitting the recreational fishing sector between the tin boaters and guide/lodges is a bad idea.
In effect you create a two tier system with winners and losers.
Who wins would be up to how you divide the recreational quota.
Someone is going to lose and how do you know it won't be the tin boaters.

If you say the guide/lodges should buy commercial quota, well....
The current government is trying that with the Experimental Halibut License.
Hows that working for them?

When this subject comes up I'm amazed how the commercial fishermen on here pipe up and throw their support behind dividing the recreational sector. I'm sure they would like nothing better then us to go down that path. That speaks loudly as to why this would be a bad idea. I'm not new to this game and have watched, listened and spoken to many with more knowledge then me and I don't know anyone that would like to go down that road. I also have no problem debating the subject as long as it is done in a civil way.

As for SFAC/SFAB it sure would be nice not to see pitch forks and mobs on the internet this winter.
We lost a lot of good people on this site because of what happened last year.
We will see what happens this year and if some decide to pull out thier pitch fork and raise a mod....
I'm out of here.....
GLG

 

[profisher]

You can call guides/lodges commercial, but it is really not the most accurate choice of a word to best describe us. Commercial fishermen earn a living by fishing by the pound, the more fish they catch the better their profits. Guides/lodges fish by the hour/day and the more hours or days equals more profits. Guides/lodges are only "commercial" by being a business within the recreational fishery. Not unlike a marina, tackle store, boat/motor dealership. We all support recreational anglers. I think there has always been a tiny bit of animosity towards guides from the weekend guy because while the weekend guy slugs away at work all week the guides are fishing 7 days a week with their guests. Now with quota being forced on us, less fish available and the threat of shortened seasons the weekend guy sees the guides as a threat to his weekend fishing. I get it. The issue is complex and I'm not going to get into the politics of the mess we are in. I'm just going to say that there is only one truth that speaks to every native, commercial, guide/lodge and joe angler.....we need more fish!! That is where we ALL need to focus our efforts as a single unified and strong voice.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

On that note Gil any updates on the experimental and amount used/participated this year? I'm worried it will have definitely gone up justifying it to DFO

 

[GLG]

On that note Gil any updates on the experimental and amount used/participated this year? I'm worried it will have definitely gone up justifying it to DFO

Word I got was FAIL... but that was a while back.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Well I heard the nootka places said no one used any....but that's a pretty small sample size.

 

[profisher]

The amount actually used and paid for is in the hundreds of pounds. That at a time when the halibut TAC is at its lowest. The experimental quota has no where to go but down as TAC goes up. It will fail.

 

[Clipper]

Just saying but when was the last time that the government (any government) actually admitted that any of their projects was a failure? I'll see pigs flying before that happens!

 

[Sculpin]

Well I made this thread up in haste and inserted a rant after posting it. I turned out ok in the end lol.

I have another beef though. I will not (as long as the admin doesn't ban me) allow sneeky commercial fisherman hiding behind the sports fishing label to post their propaganda and twist issues around so that the true sports fisher people start in fighting. Be truthful in your posts and have common ground and meaningful discussions. That is all I have ever asked for from anyone on this forum. I have been truthful with every single post I make. Everything I do in life is the truth. It kind of follows me around. That's life. I know quite a few commercial fisher people and have contact with them through out my life. They are genuine and honest people with nothing to hide. They are very open with discussion about fisheries and we agree and disagree about a lot of things. It is a very productive relationship FACE TO FACE.

The only thing I am trying to promote on this forum is a united front within recreational fisher people. Nothing more, nothing less. Period. If someone wants to twist my postings around then that is a problem they need to work out with themselves. I am for recreational fishing. I am for sustainable commercial fishing. I am for everyone trying to make things work.

Cheers,
John

 

[SophiaB]

Can you give us some examples of sneaky commercial fisherman?

Fish4all is openly a commie. So he doesn't count. Other then that, id like to know who else.

What I would like, is when people have opinion, even though its not status quo, instead of people getting their backs up, they hear the guy out, and if they so feel inclined, respond productively. Instead what happens on here is anyone that doesn't toe the line, gets blasted, labelled as a commie, personally attacked or banned. Sorry if the line wasn't so crooked it would be easier for more people to tow it.

 

[Dave S]

Can you give us some examples of sneaky commercial fisherman?

Fish4all is openly a commie. So he doesn't count. Other then that, id like to know who else.

What I would like, is when people have opinion, even though its not status quo, instead of people getting their backs up, they hear the guy out, and if they so feel inclined, respond productively. Instead what happens on here is anyone that doesn't toe the line, gets blasted, labelled as a commie, personally attacked or banned. Sorry if the line wasn't so crooked it would be easier for more people to tow it.

Says the guy who is well known for personal attacks against those who don't see things his way. Oh the irony.

 

[SophiaB]

Says the guy who is well known for personal attacks against those who don't see things his way. Oh the irony.

 

[bigbruce]

Well I made this thread up in haste and inserted a rant after posting it. I turned out ok in the end lol.

I have another beef though. I will not (as long as the admin doesn't ban me) allow sneeky commercial fisherman hiding behind the sports fishing label to post their propaganda. This will end right here and right now. Be truthful in your posts and have common ground and meaningful discussions. That is all I have ever asked for from anyone on this forum. I have been truthful with every single post I make. Everything I do in life is the truth. It kind of follows me around. I hope it spreads and takes hold with someone else. That's life. I know many commercial fisher people and have constant contact with them through out my life. They are genuine and honest people with nothing to hide. They are very open with discussion with me and we talk about fisheries and agree and disagree about a lot of things. It is a very productive relationship FACE TO FACE.

The only thing I am trying to promote on this forum is a united front from recreational fisher people. Nothing more, nothing less. Period. If someone wants to twist my postings around then that is a problem they need to deal with themselves. I am for recreational fishing. I am for sustainable commercial fishing. I am for everyone trying to make things work. I am open and honest about what I do.

Cheers,
John

And when you're wrong about someone, John - what do you do then?

Ever hear of the Law of Unintended Consequences? I clearly understand that the SFAB recommended, and the DFO enacted, the Sportsfishing slot and bag limits for Halibut so that there would be an opportunity to extend the season. I understand that this was not intended as a conservation tactic. I understand that if conservation was an issue, slot limits would have been imposed on the commercial fishery as well.
However, the point that I tried to make earlier, and the one that (I think) Foggy tried to raise on the other thread is that insofar as the recreational halibut fishery is concerned is that a, perhaps unintended, consequence of the slot limit is that many recreational fishers are adjusting their techniques such that they are targeting smaller rather than larger halibut and are being forced to release the larger ones they do catch. That, to me at least, means that there are more large breeding females left to do their thing - which, again to me at least, is good for the resource in the long run.

I really can't see how having this opinion would lead anyone to assume I was a "sneeky (sic) commercial fisherman hiding behind the recreational label". I was simply trying to make an innocent observation.

In terms of my being a "fishing newbie", I think I am - given the vast experience of many of the folks participating on this Forum. We've been on the Island for 6 years now and after all of the work we've done on our house and gardens, I've only been able to somewhat actively use my boat for the past three seasons.
I think if you check my posts, you will find that they deal less with actual fishing techniques (other than seeking advice - which I truly value) and more with peripheral issues around boating, regulations, quotas and the like.

Finally, I do appreciate your passion for the sport and the resource. I share it, although probably not with the same degree of fire. I also golf ('nuff said).
I do wish, however, that you tone down the rhetoric a bit and perhaps refrain from jumping to the conclusion that just because someone doesn't see the world through the same glasses you do they are somehow against the cause. Frankly, this is the kind of attitude that I believe will drive people away from making valuable contributions to the Forum as well as to the broader organizations such as the SFAB and the SVIAC. I'm not surprised the turnout for the meeting in Victoria was so low, and won't be surprised if other local SFAC meetings have similar experiences.
Frankly, I'd like to get together with you over a beer sometime and talk fishing - or more specifically, talk catching. You've obviously got a hell of a lot more experience at the game than I do and I'm always looking for ways to increase my catching/fishing ratio.
Cheers,
Bruce

 

[Gunsmith]

And they are off said the monkey as he backed into the fan!

 

[Sculpin]

Thanks for that Bruce. I'm sorry I was a little trigger happy in the other thread. My passion and fire may be too intense at times and can boil over into non productive and nonsensical dialogue. Maybe we will get together sometime.