Halibut Closed Until Further Notice

Gov;

I completly agree that the numbers have jumped because of better accounting by DFO. That being said I live and work out of Prince Rupert and you can't tell me the effort has not increased. We went from a few charter boats to not being able to find a parking spot anywhere near the boat launches. I think the last count was close to 250 business licences issued for the charter operations.

Also why do the commercial sports guys figure that any decline in stocks should be put on the shoulders of the commercial fisherman. If there is a decline then all those involved should feel the pain, not just one sector.
 
quote:Also why do the commercial sports guys figure that any decline in stocks should be put on the shoulders of the commercial fisherman. If there is a decline then all those involved should feel the pain, not just one sector.

Because the commies haven't even used up their quota, hence they obviously don't need that much while we are 'starving'!
 
When the division of allocation was set accurate numbers were not available for sport caught fish or calculated on our growth of population so we got a raw deal. Things should have been reversed to protect our tourizm and the right for all sportsfishermen where we had a larger portion of the pie. Not saying 50 / 50 but more like 70 / 30 or 65 / 35

Just like commercial fishermen we have a right to the resource in our country and I dont see our goverment offering to pay us not to fish when things get tough and they want less pressure on fish stocks.

A guide provides a service for those that annually may only fish 5 to 10 days a year with there catch feeding there family vs sold world wide. Our clients hire a guide rather then investing in a boat and all costs associated because thats there way of enjoying a natural resource and there right to do so how they want. We provide a service period and are paid to do so.

Yes with declining stocks we all should be cut back but the sportsfishermen are considered last on the list and lets face it its time for commercial boys to wake up and realze it is far better for this country in so man ways to take a long hard look at mabye giving back quoto without the sportfihermen paying for it. We pump huge dollars into commuities that need us to survive.

Cheers ME

revisedhookedonfishing.jpg


Nootka Marine Adventures
Email: h00kedonfishing@hotmail.com
 
Well said guys, feels good that the majority are on the same page and truly understand what is really going on here. I am sure glad you have the time and dedication required to research and develop a specific game plan to instil some hope, or this would feel like a lost cause. The meeting should be interesting!

Thank You.

www.tailspincharters.com
 
Hey bullcrap:

What inspired you to choose such a user name? I don’t find it endearing.

You wrote “… you can't tell me the effort has not increased.” You must not have read my earlier post as I stated …” While there has been an increase, the fishery is now stable”. Rupert did not double in a year, not a chance. Growth has come over the last 10-15 years coast-wide due to better sportfishing boats, more money available for people to buy them, GPS, navigational equipment improvements that can get people “on the fish” and better tackle technology to hook up when you find‘em.

What ever is wrong with growth of the recreational sector anyway? Be it a Joe-tin-boater like me or an operation that offers a service to the public, like a fishing resort, fishing charter or guide. I was in Rupert before Christmas and frankly any jobs and income going to the community looks like a real plus as she looking and feeling like a tired old lady without the logging and commercial fisheries of the past to keep her vibrant. The container port is only half done, unlikely to get next phase while no container boats are moving in the current economy and what is with all old run down buildings.

Here’s some quick cigarette package math for you:

7,920,000 lbs halibut = 2008 commercial halibut 88% quota @ approx 20 lb per fish equals 396,000 fish. This keeps 215 boats fishing with crew at average three to a boat = 645 crew. Approx 1841 halis per boat. Value to the BC economy of 3.60 per lb. Most of product exported. Adds small amt to the BC economy through boat supplies, processing and repairs. Plus there is 5.5 million pounds sitting in freezer unsold, not good!

1,500,000 approx lbs halibut = actual 2008 recreational catch @ approx 20 lb per fish equals 75,000 fish. 1.25 fish per angler. This keeps thousands of guides, charter operators employed up and down the coast per yr. Hali angling is enjoyed by approximately 60,000 license-buying anglers each year. Value $18.65 per lb landed to the BC economy. Also adds huge to the GDP of BC through tackle, bait, gas, vehicle and boat purchases, etc as well as providing international tourism experience. And the halis are all eaten!

So with only 18% of what the commercial guys pillage from the Canadian ocean each year, recreational halibut fishing provides way more. And lets say the commercial sector does suffer a reduction if recreational angling for halibut grows. There will be a mechanism to compensate that reduction with cash, yes cash, which is why you all fish for a living in the first place.

Your second point has no basis, as it is speculation at best as to who will take the worst blow as government will hopefully make up their mind one day. It is not about conservation. However, I am 100% sure the commercial halibut sector (along with their East Coast fishing brethren) would have an atomic meltdown in Ottawa if they were cut back by over 40% because of an accounting problem, just as the recreational sector has been by the 12% allocation framework debacle.

So that’s just what happened to us ... we want to go fishing, feed our families and contribute to BC’s economy with a whole lot less fish - actually 321,000 less halibut or 6,420,000 lbs per year. But Feb 1 we’re stuck at the dock when we should be on the water, my buddies tackle stores ain’t selling lures plus the local boat dealer looks death warmed over as he ain’t sold jack you know what!

Yeah, there is gonna be a recreational hali season but what will it be like and just how long do we have to wait for the news of when it will open. The complete uncertainty of it all is what is really upsetting the anglers – just like this post says “halibut closed until further notice”. Now you know why I am starting to lobby the federal government right now!


Governor


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
HERE HERE thanks again for a fantastic post!!!!!!!!!nice to see someone who REALLY sees the big picture!!!!!

Thanks Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
 
Governor,

Welcome aboard!

If your numbers are on the money, I wasn't off by much when I figured sport-caught fish brought about 10-times more back to the Province vs. the commercials'...

Give'em Hell!
 
Governor,

I sincerely applaud your enthusiasm and your posts. It is refreshing to see someone cut through the bullcrap (pun intended) and identify the real issues. Having said that, I caution you that trying to discuss fishing allocations with the federal government based on economics will be a challenge. To actually expect that they would consider economics logically in any fisheries is a stretch. The same has been tried with the sockeye fisheries in the Fraser Valley and other than continued missing fish and blatant poaching by other user groups, nothing was accomplished.

If you look strictly at the economics, a 50% reduction in all commercial fishery sectors and re-allocation to the recreational fisheries would make complete sense. Can you imagine how amazing fishing would be if we took the commies out of the picture? Can you imagine the prosperity that could be possible to local coastal communities if we opened the coast up for real tourism business? Even in a depressed economy, with a $0.75 Canadian dollar, our brothers from south of the 49th would flock to those communities if they knew they could take back a nice cache of salmon and halibut.

THe Feds care NOTHING about what happens in BC. THey NEVER have. The Ottawa beauracrats cannot see past the Ontario border. Remember sometimes logic will not apply.
 
Guys, this is looking good. I think we are at a point where most of us know what is going on, especially with some of the good posts that have gone up and been read by everybody (nice work gov). So what's the game plan? What's going to happen on the 3rd? Are we going to try and get a lot of people down to that meeting and let them hear our big voice?

Do we have some people lined up with a strategy to begin this battle? Hopefully we do, but if we don't we should organize this somehow and get some $$ together to get some legal counsel on this, get some people to start fighting for us, get some publicity on TV and in the newspaper, and start making a big stink about this. In the DFO the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and we have to bring this to light. We need to do our homework though to build credibility, so we need to have good catch stats, good economic stats and good speakers. Let's get this together...we can win this fight.
 
Thanks Millsy for bringing the discussion back to taking positive action. At the moment there is only the SFAB process available to us to advance our concerns in a professional manner. Problem with this process is it is strictly an "advisory" process. DFO staff can choose to either ignore or accept feedback. While the SFAB process does help advance our concerns, it's short-coming is really the advisory mandate.

What is missing is an organized "lobby voice" for salt water recreational anglers. The only group that is even close is the SFI, but far too few independent recreational anglers are actively involved or even members (myself included). The effect of this is at the moment the SFI is seen by many to only represent the big lodges.

As I see it we either put our money where our collective mouth is or stop our bitching. Maybe if we all joined the SFI we could have a greater say in advancing our agenda. If we don't think the SFI is the organization to accomplish that, then we need to get busy and form our own lobby group so we can move away from bitching to taking positive action to professionally lobby the real decision makers in Ottawa on the central issue of allocation.

Time to take meaningful action.....fish or cut bait guys.
 
Hey Sushi! You got connections! How about you educate some of your close buddies in Ottawa on how to fix this? This could bring us light years closer...
 
We need a positive plan on how to gitt’er dun! But before I share with all the SFBC readers my personal thoughts on the best way to address the injustice we continue to struggle with around the recreational halibut issue, I want to speak to some “conservation” concerns that were written earlier in this topic. One might wrongly conclude we as anglers care not for the species but just want to kill’em all for a buck to stay in business. Not so …

The truth is a little different. The total poundage of Halibut approved by the IPHC has been on a downward trend, yes that is true. If you are an uninformed armchair quarterback your logical mind thinks this is for conservation hence the world is falling in, the sky is collapsing and those greedy sporties want to kill every last one.

Well, in truth there is an issue with the total Pacific stock. There is a shift in the demographics. Large older spawning females in certain year classes are not as prolific as has been witnessed in the past. But, and this is a huge positive I will share in this post later, there is an enormous amount of juvenile males in the current stock mix that are growing up through the system. In times of uncertainty of stock, the IPHC guidelines use a quick down and slow up approach. Which translated into coffee shop English means … if you have any concern about the stock move quickly and broadly downward in harvesting and when the stock returns to normal slowly ratchet up the fishing. Sounds logical.

Additionally, just a couple of years ago the IPHC scientists decided that being very precautious about not over fishing halibut was the best way forward. So they agreed to reduce the total annual catch Pacific-wide as a starting basis for all future TAC approvals. Then through some scientific studies of halibut migration, decided that some of the halibut swimming around in Canadian waters may in fact belong to Alaska’s stock. So they changed the Canadian share of catch downward again. (Maybe this is actually more of a behind the scenes USA lobby effort to get more halibut for them than a true scientific finding – you know … pay a scientist and he can prove what is needed on the day i.e. smoking is good for your health as the smoke kills dangerous germs in your mouth and throat but forget to mention you gonna die from lung cancer)

So the point here is Canadian harvesters (all sectors) got the short end of the wedge from the IPHC in the past few years. Yes, there is rightly a minor concern about the stock but most of the drop in Canada’s TAC is for management reasons not any major conservation concern.

As I see it, no one can claim with any solid foundation that Pacific halibut is in a conservation concern, crisis or otherwise if the IPHC states there is a total biomass of over a billion pounds out there in the ocean with a total exploitable biomass of 325,000,000 pounds. Nor can North America pass the red face test if they allow 54,080,000 pounds to be caught in 2009 of which about 5-6 million will be by-catch in the Alaska Trawl Fleet nets. Just think for a minute – 54,080,000 million pounds divided by 20 lbs (average weight of hali landed) = 2,704.000 fish. I catch five or six a year and feel I am doing good! Conservation concern my UU !

Really precautionary management is good for sustainability of the stock and long-term viability of the harvest sectors. The juvenile males coming up through the stock will be a real blessing to all in the future. IPHC already agree that the stock abundance is going up may be even way up over the next few years and if the young lads survive we will have way more lbs per year to catch. But who knows?

This all translates to the recreational halibut anglers as a harvest sector in Canada are being screwed badly. The IPHC management measures (real or lobbied) over our fishing in Canadian waters, our federal government with a bogus 12% allocation, and a commercial sector who believe they own all the fish and don’t want the recreational sector to have more, all box us in and kepp us unfairly tied to the dock.

So now we all know the truth and can eloquently respond to any nay-sayers, we need to move on Ottawa big time. Stay tuned for my next post


Governor


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
quote:get some people to start fighting for us, get some publicity on TV and in the newspaper, and start making a big stink about this

Well has anyone from the SFAB invited the press to the meeting? That would be a logical place to start I would think.
 
quote:Originally posted by millsy

Guys, this is looking good. I think we are at a point where most of us know what is going on, especially with some of the good posts that have gone up and been read by everybody (nice work gov). So what's the game plan? What's going to happen on the 3rd? Are we going to try and get a lot of people down to that meeting and let them hear our big voice?

Do we have some people lined up with a strategy to begin this battle? Hopefully we do, but if we don't we should organize this somehow and get some $$ together to get some legal counsel on this, get some people to start fighting for us, get some publicity on TV and in the newspaper, and start making a big stink about this. In the DFO the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and we have to bring this to light. We need to do our homework though to build credibility, so we need to have good catch stats, good economic stats and good speakers. Let's get this together...we can win this fight.

I refer you to the meeting being held in Victoria and the full agenda.
You will note that there are 2 meetings.
 
quote:Here’s some quick cigarette package math for you:

7,920,000 lbs halibut = 2008 commercial halibut 88% quota @ approx 20 lb per fish equals 396,000 fish. This keeps 215 boats fishing with crew at average three to a boat = 645 crew. Approx 1841 halis per boat. Value to the BC economy of 3.60 per lb. Most of product exported. Adds small amt to the BC economy through boat supplies, processing and repairs. Plus there is 5.5 million pounds sitting in freezer unsold, not good!

1,500,000 approx lbs halibut = actual 2008 recreational catch @ approx 20 lb per fish equals 75,000 fish. 1.25 fish per angler. This keeps thousands of guides, charter operators employed up and down the coast per yr. Hali angling is enjoyed by approximately 60,000 license-buying anglers each year. Value $18.65 per lb landed to the BC economy. Also adds huge to the GDP of BC through tackle, bait, gas, vehicle and boat purchases, etc as well as providing international tourism experience. And the halis are all eaten!

Curious where you got these numbers from.
 
bullcrap:

The data came from two sources, both showing identical numbers. The November 2008 Sport Fishing Institute news letter ran an article on halibut and also the data appeared in an official letter sent out by the chair of the Sport Fishing Advisory Board's Halibut Committee. Data is based on DFO catch data, statistics Canada Survey data and industry information.

Personally, I think the number for recreational halibut is too consertvative at $18.50 per lb, as it was based on only 10% of the total annual money brought in by the recreatioanl sector. My gut tells me halibut is now a higher number than 10%. But I prefer to use info from my research not skewing things with personal exaggeration.

Was your 250 licenses for charter operator business licenses in Prince Rupert a bit of a porkie? Or are you lumping in river guides too, as I know there's a cart load of low gunwaled aluminum boats with jet-flow outboards kicking around town which obviously run the Skeena for salmon and steelhead.


Governor


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
Time to have a sling shot to fire at the seals and one to fire at the DFO. DFO need to take more pride in thier job and informing the government of the real issues at stake.
 
So here’s my take on what we need to do:

Draft a lobbying action plan - bring the troops together – agree to the plan – get commitment - choose a spokesman – find 20 willing participants to help out with the grunt work - start a war chest - form an Ad Hoc Coalition to start with - prepare a one-message media package – prepare a set of briefing papers for use in meeting politicians – pool our knowledge and contact base - start lobbying

JFK said “Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country”

Who can participate – every one who has legitimacy in the recreational fishing sector should be welcome. We need as many as possible. Guys and girls who fish, guides, charter operators, fishing clubs, tackle stores, tackle distributors, tackle manufacturers, marinas, fishing resorts, boat dealers and repair shops, Chambers of Commerce, tourism advocates and any businesses that need the revenue brought on by recreational anglers (Hotels, Motels, Inns, Transportation Companies, Gas Stations, etc.) Organize our “few good fisher-men” to visit and enlist as many as possible into the coalition.

Bottom line we want our halibut fishing opportunities back to normal by March 1st or the gloves come off. Being nice and agreeing to work with the department has got us boxed in with an unworkable quota system, reduced possession limits and unpredictable open and closing in South VI so far (and I know other communities who got slammed by this too). And we all have heard the potential draconian measures that might arrive in 2009.

Let’s git’er dun! How are we going to be effective in our efforts? In my opinion …

What works:
Have large numbers of anglers write unique letters to MPs about the halibut debacle
Visit the riding office of all federal politicians on VI with a single message
Push for a meeting in Victoria with senior Ottawa DFO and politicians
Send a delegation to Ottawa to lobby in their faces
Hold a rally and invite the media (must have 300 plus attend to be a win)
Hold a protest fishery and invite the media (25 boats minimum)
Run boats on trailers around Victoria at dead slow speeds and invite the media (150 boats on trailers minimum)
Block the harbour around the commercial halibut boats and invite the media
Seek possible court action over allocation policy ($ 500,000 to get to the supreme court)

What likely won’t work:
A petition
Contacting provincial MLAs
Email letter rants
Non-unique form letters
Talking it through again with DFO
Waiting patiently

What of the “what works” shall we do? All if we have too! Meeting on February 3 in Victoria is two parts as Old Black Dog reminded you. Short SFAB meeting, followed by non-SFAB in-camera agree-to-the-plan session.

Do we seek to divide the recreational sector? Absolutely NOT! We must come forward with a united message. So crafting our briefing and media materials carefully is vital. Will we work with other groups? Heck YES!

The Sport Fishing Institute is a great voice for the whole angling community. They are supported by and strongest in industry representation (Big lodges, tackle manufacturers and dealers). They have long-standing credibility and are a well-run organization. Met with Minister Shea last week. They have always been about keeping the sector as one. They are lobbying for halibut allocation fairness already. Don’t seem too active in Victoria area for the anglers, guides and charter operators.

The BC Wildlife Federation also a strong voice for the hunters and anglers of BC. Have been getting more outwardly active of late in tidal waters issues. Met with Minister Shea last week about halibut. Some great people on their Tidal Waters Committee. Have recently taken over the Sport Fishing Defence Alliance. Not very active on salt-water fishing issues off South Vancouver Island.

Anglers have as a sector been notorious in our apathy and expectation that some other sap is doing the foot work for your fishing interests in the past. Will history repeat?

Judgement day is soon upon us - Are you with us or agin us?

Agree on the above? If not, post a better plan!


Governor


God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
 
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