G&M salmon article

juandesooka

Active Member
Published online yesterday, in paper today I think. Pretty ugly ... though in 2nd reading, realize it is talking about a sting in 1989....which is quite a while ago now. But still...


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...m_source=British Columbia&utm_content=2027602

Excluded transcript frustrates lawyers at Cohen inquiry
MARK HUME
VANCOUVER— From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published Wednesday, May. 18, 2011 9:14PM EDT
Last updated Wednesday, May. 18, 2011 9:19PM EDT

In the fall of 1989, two U.S. undercover fisheries officers, a fish broker and a native fisherman from the Fraser Valley sat in a hotel room near Vancouver and talked about illegally dealing in “tonnes” of salmon caught in the aboriginal food fishery.

“I’ve only produced, you know, maybe 100, ah maybe 150,000 pounds … I shipped to one guy 2 to 300,000,” says the fisherman when asked how much sockeye he can provide.

“Well, what we’re talking about is increasing your yearly production then maybe tenfold,” says one of the agents, posing as an American buyer. “Can you do that?”

“… if that’s the market and the cash is there, you know … we can produce that,” says the fisherman.

He goes on to say he can provide Chinook, pink and chum salmon too, which would be taken during native food and ceremonial fisheries on the Fraser River.

“What kind of Chinook volume are we talking about?” asks the agent.

“Ah, I would think that around here more than about 20 tonnes,” replies the fisherman.

The joint U.S.-Canada sting failed to lead to any charges, and a transcript of that secretly wired meeting was never filed in any court.

On Wednesday, an attempt was made to enter it as evidence at the Cohen Commission, a federal judicial inquiry into the decline of sockeye populations in the Fraser River. But commissioner Bruce Cohen rejected the document after a lawyer for an aboriginal group challenged its relevance.

Tim Dickson, speaking for the Sto:lo Tribal Council and Cheam Indian Band, said the document wasn’t in keeping with the commission’s mandate of not finding fault with any individual, community or organization.

“It’s not appropriate to this inquiry and I refer to the finger-pointing,” he said.

A copy of the transcript was obtained by The Globe and Mail, however, and it shows why top Department of Fisheries and Oceans enforcement officers, who are testifying at the commission this week, believe the illegal sale of native food fish has long been considered a big problem.

Phil Eidsvik, who is representing the BC Fisheries Survival Coalition at the inquiry, said outside the hearings it was frustrating not to be able to get the transcript on the official record, because it illustrates the magnitude of illegal fish sales and shows “this has been a problem for two decades.”

Scott Coultish, regional chief of DFO’s intelligence and investigation services, and Randy Nelson, director of conservation and protection, both estimated 97 per cent of the salmon caught under food, social and ceremonial (FSC) licences are illegally sold.

They also testified that 345,000 sockeye, found stored in industrial freezers during a 2005 DFO investigation, were FSC fish that were “most likely” headed for illegal sale.

During cross-examination, Anja Brown, a lawyer for the First Nations Coalition, pointed out that cold storage facilities don’t record where salmon come from, and that DFO has no evidence of where the fish ended up, because the fish weren’t tracked after leaving cold storage.

Mr. Coultish said DNA samples showed the sockeye were caught in the Fraser River, during the FSC fishery, but he agreed DFO didn’t know where the fish went. “Our belief … is that the fish were sold,” he said.

Ms. Brown, however, said it is possible the fish were used for food, social and ceremonial purposes.

“That could have occurred, yes,” agreed Mr. Coultish, who added he was skeptical that small communities would go to the expense of packaging and storing food fish in industrial freezers.

Outside the hearings, Jordan Point, executive director of the First Nations Fisheries Council, said it would be easy for native communities in the Fraser Valley to consume 345,000 sockeye in a year. He said he alone puts away 200 fish annually for feasts at funerals, weddings and other ceremonies, and there are 1,200 people on his reserve.
 
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It's all too vague-no one can deny that some people break the law but OTOH who in hell counted 345,000 fish?

Also-we all know some bands are worse than others and some have tried hard to clean up the trafficking of FCS fish-to the point of throwing band members off the reserve if they were caught doing it I think that was the Chehalis band that did that.


On Wednesday, an attempt was made to enter it as evidence at the Cohen Commission, a federal judicial inquiry into the decline of sockeye populations in the Fraser River. But commissioner Bruce Cohen rejected the document after a lawyer for an aboriginal group challenged its relevance.

Tim Dickson, speaking for the Sto:lo Tribal Council and Cheam Indian Band, said the document wasn’t in keeping with the commission’s mandate of not finding fault with any individual, community or organization.

“It’s not appropriate to this inquiry and I refer to the finger-pointing,” he said.
That's 100% correct and could be seen as an attempt by certain factions in DFO to deflect attention from their own incompetence.
 
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THe sad part is that this evidence which is now identified as non-evidence, will be the elephant in the room that no one can talk about, but everyone knows is there. DFO's incompetence comes directly from Ottawa and the fear of upsetting the first class citizens and their clueless urban supporting voters who have allowed this travesty to continue for a dozen years unchallenged. The staff on the front lines did their best with limited resources and "job security" fear tactics that had them worried about their own continued employment. More than a couple of biologists and officers left the department due to hypocrisy.

Did the FN's poach these fish? Of course they did. Stewards of the land and resource? No more than anyone else and less so due to the cloak of superiority that they hide behind.
 
So, how do you know a FN lawyer is lying her face off.....answer, as soon as she opens her yap. Give me a break, so are we all that stupid and utterly brain dead? Perhaps they can get away with that line of BS before a Judge, but dont try that on the public. We were born, but not yesterday.
 
go on the cknw website and on the mike smith show at 12:30 go into the audio vault and john cummings and erie cree were on debating this worth a listen
 
The only way to know the truth beyond a reasonable doubt, is to prove it; otherwise, just simply shut up! It's not worth your breath or effort that you make in typing or to speak contrary to. Show us the truth, do not make it up for convenience sake.

Ding Dong!
 
Maybe; or perhaps more in line with a single individual trying to impress a potential buyer, who in the end was unable to produce what he stated that he could. If DFO has nothing, then how can any person call it as the gospel? There are many things effecting Fraser fish, not just a single man who never delivered what he promised. Supposedly, according to SFI, there are over 200,000 halibut anglers fishing in BC. Is there any effect on Fraser fish from law biding anglers catching their legal and rightful creel? It's deeper than what has been half heatedly presented on the surface, to state otherwise is futile to the future of our fish.

Ding Dong!
 
2.jpg



:p :D:D
 
Absolutely no issue, closed minds think alike; I am pleased to have my alternate view. :)

Ding Dong!
 
I was jus joking....... :D

I have seen/heard from uppers to know that this should be brought up and taken for consideration.

I figured out how to do the ignore list thing tho too ;)
 
Hmmm... I don't think one needs to rebute those comments or prove much of anything? Canada just needs to enforce their laws there. They certainly do know illegal salmon are taken from the Fraser!

Illegal salmon are smuggled into the U.S. quite often. The last batch I know of was in 2009 and as referred and stated Canada (DFO) really doesn't do much about any illegally caught salmon, even when they do know about; that is pretty much a given and known. However, guess what - It is still illegal for anyone to pocess illegally caught fish here in the U.S. and it will get seized. If you really want proof, not a problem. How about 109,000 pounds illegally caught Chum, out of the Fraser, caught with "gill nets," and seized here in the U.S. in 2009? Who do you think is the only ones capable supplying those "gill net" caught and seized illegal Chum?

"According to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration investigators, the deep cuts on almost each fish are signs that they were illegally taken in gill nets from Canada's Fraser River, then sent off to the United States."

http://www.nwcn.com/news/consumer/62607472.html
 
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To which my :) indicates a funny. I am already banned from this site, so ignoring me, well, that would just mean it was still there even though it shouldn't be. :)

Ding Dong!
 
Hmmm... I don't think one needs to rebute those comments or prove much of anything? Canada just needs to enforce their laws there. They certainly do know illegal salmon are taken from the Fraser!

Illegal salmon are smuggled into the U.S. quite often. The last batch I know of was in 2009 and as referred and stated Canada (DFO) really doesn't do much about any illegally caught salmon, even when they do know about; that is pretty much a given and known. However, guess what - It is still illegal for anyone to pocess illegally caught fish here in the U.S. and it will get seized. If you really want proof, not a problem. How about 109,000 pounds illegally caught Chum, out of the Fraser, caught with "gill nets," and seized here in the U.S. in 2009? Who do you think is the only ones capable supplying those "gill net" caught and seized illegal Chum?

"According to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration investigators, the deep cuts on almost each fish are signs that they were illegally taken in gill nets from Canada's Fraser River, then sent off to the United States."

http://www.nwcn.com/news/consumer/62607472.html

Oh Charlie, you only need to visit "Little America" to understand smuggled fish into the USA. Do you really, honestly think that Indians are the only people to blame for the state of our fish?

I know that you are smarter than that. I know you know that I know that also, so petty debate is kind of nonsensical.

Ding Dong!
 
Oh Charlie, you only need to visit "Little America" to understand smuggled fish into the USA. Do you really, honestly think that Indians are the only people to blame for the state of our fish?

I know that you are smarter than that. I know you know that I know that also, so petty debate is kind of nonsensical.

Ding Dong!
There is no debate! And, who is saying any Indians are to blame for the state of the salmon? However, the smuggling of fish into the United States happens to be and is a "huge issue," and is looked for constantly. It happens to not only be from Canada, but is especially from Asia and Asian fishing boats - just do a search on it! It is all over the place! Just saying Canada already knows it is happening and chooses to do nothing about it! No debate to it!!!!!!!
 
Oh Charlie, you only need to visit "Little America" to understand smuggled fish into the USA. Do you really, honestly think that Indians are the only people to blame for the state of our fish?

Of course not.. But how many are they taking? How many are unaccounted for through truck bed sales... Don't tell me it doesn't happen. They are saying it is...:rolleyes:

THEY are saying it is..... we've seen it for a long time.

but is especially from Asia and Asian fishing boats - just do a search on it!

All to make a buck.........
 
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Of course not.. But how many are they taking? How many are unaccounted for through truck bed sales... Don't tell me it doesn't happen. They are saying it is...:rolleyes:

THEY are saying it is..... we've seen it for a long time.

Sorry your note is not clear, are you saying that American's are smuggling fish from Tahsis across the boarder legally into the USA? Or are you blaming Indians for the state of our fish?

Personally I believe that there are many factors affecting the state of our fish. Namely people are to blame, well, people and environmental conditions that people may be linked to; so, yes I have determined that people are the issue. The whole entire issue, is people; nothing more, nothing less. Just people.

Ding Dong!
 
Sorry your note is not clear, are you saying that American's are smuggling fish from Tahsis across the boarder legally into the USA? Or are you blaming Indians for the state of our fish?


Seriously?
 
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