Fraser River Sockeye Update from PSC

[agentaqua]

Not wanting to flame any discussion here - but just because a net is in the water - doesn't necessarily mean they are catching many fish or overfishing, neither. Nets are normally more efficient than trolling or sportsfishing - but they number they take is dependent upon: 1/ whether or not there are any fish there; 2/ how long the net is in the water; 3/ the mesh size/length/depth of the net.

Fishing with nets in larger rivers with potential weak stocks and multi-species is riskier than net-fishing single-species runs - which can often happen in smaller rivers. The key to "risk-management" is timing - and knowing when *NOT* to fish when "weak" stocks are migrating.

There can be conservation concerns - and when there is - like the Skeena this summer - First Nations are not permitted to fish, then for those stocks of concern when they are migrating home.

There are "good" and "bad" fishermen in all sectors - but keep in mind First Nations are not actually a "special interest" group as some have claimed. They are actual holders of Rights and Titles - and after conservation needs are met - are owed a fiduciary duty by the feds to have their food needs met.

South of the border - check-out the Bolt Decision - if you disagree that First Nations in Canada need to have 1st priority on intercepting returning stocks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Washington
wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/salmon/BoldtDecision8.5x11layoutforweb.pdf
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/pu...rterly/unintended-consequences-boldt-decision

In the US - aboriginal fishermen have the opportunity to take up to 50% of the harvestable number of fish. That's not the way it works in Canada. This is how it works in Canada:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/aboriginal-autochtones/iapf-cipa-eng.htm

 

[Birdsnest]

I think first nations fisheries are in an excellent position to demonstrate proper selective fisheries where salmon stocks are targeted in their own systems where by catch of other runs and species of salmon is reduced to near zero. However this goes against tradition and other bands down the system will be left out. Pretty hopeless situation.

 

[Whitebuck]

Reeltime, I have grown up on the Fraser have spent the last 25 years on or it or it's tributairies at least 4 days a week.
You are clueless or have your head in the sand if you think the FN netting now and before isn't decimating anything that returns to the Fraser. Yes the comm fleet hasn't been unleashed yet, but on this year with absolute **** returns of sockeye and springs to the Fraser the FN have been running rampant with legal and illegal fishing.
There are many factors to the demise of these stocks....but anybody around the Fraser or knows what is actually going on between Boston bar and Steveston on a daily basis knows what is really happening.

Hopefully for you RT ignorance is bliss....for the rest of us in the know it ain't.
Again....here are the LEGAL openings
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes_Previous.html
Agreed Bottomfeedee wtf
Sorry Agentaqua...I call it the way I see it with time ON the water and first hand info with these SPECIAL groups, not what is written up on the internet.

 

[triplenickel]

There can be conservation concerns - and when there is - like the Skeena this summer - First Nations are not permitted to fish, then for those stocks of concern when they are migrating home.

Yet they do it every day, I see guys I grew up with posting pics on Facebook bragging about catch and full smoke houses.

 

[Reel Time]

you have brought up some great points, commercial fishing all over has put most salmon stocks at the point they are now, over fishing and this will never end mentality , the beef most people have out there is that we all should be conserving and enhancing all species of salmon out there- fn rec and commercial.The beef with me about FN is that they say they are protecting salmon when they are just taking every fish they get there hands on with no thought about the longterm effect. I v e said it before i m not a racist, just a rec. fisherman who would like to take his son and daughter fishing some day. Catching every fish till there extinct then saying it was our right is a sh###y excuse !!

Yes true, myself witnessed a first nations net strung up across the Fraser near McDonald beach between 2 pilings, it must have been left in over night, low tide in the morning left the nets exposed and there were tens of dead wasted Sockeye salmon. I think its a governing issue, Liberal white politicians too scared to speak up, no backbone to govern.

 

[finaddict]

Not wanting to flame any discussion here - but just because a net is in the water - doesn't necessarily mean they are catching many fish or overfishing, neither. Nets are normally more efficient than trolling or sportsfishing - but they number they take is dependent upon: 1/ whether or not there are any fish there; 2/ how long the net is in the water; 3/ the mesh size/length/depth of the net.

The tipping point seemed to happened several years ago when the Abbies won a court case that allowed them to drift net as well as set net. Set nets can only catch what swims into them and are notoriously inefficient. Drift nets catch a swath of the river from start point until the net is so full it cannot drift any further down stream. It may not be related but Chinook returns took a real downturn after that and for whatever reason, and have never really recovered. I don't pretend to know if there is a connection or if this is just co-incidence.

Fishing with nets in larger rivers with potential weak stocks and multi-species is riskier than net-fishing single-species runs - which can often happen in smaller rivers. The key to "risk-management" is timing - and knowing when *NOT* to fish when "weak" stocks are migrating.

Unfortunately, knowing when not to fish and actually not fishing are two very different scenarios for the Abbies between Steveston and Hope.

There can be conservation concerns - and when there is - like the Skeena this summer - First Nations are not permitted to fish, then for those stocks of concern when they are migrating home.

I am less familiar with the compliance in the Skeena, but it is a pretty easy river to police with the highway running a couple hundred kms of its length.

There are "good" and "bad" fishermen in all sectors - but keep in mind First Nations are not actually a "special interest" group as some have claimed. They are actual holders of Rights and Titles - and after conservation needs are met - are owed a fiduciary duty by the feds to have their food needs met.

Agreed that there are good and bad apples in all sectors. Also agreed that FSC needs need to be met. The issue is that there is no enforcement of this quota, and that the bands in the Steveston to Hope stretch have grossly over harvested for decades.

South of the border - check-out the Bolt Decision - if you disagree that First Nations in Canada need to have 1st priority on intercepting returning stocks:

In the US - aboriginal fishermen have the opportunity to take up to 50% of the harvestable number of fish. That's not the way it works in Canada.

I do not disagree with the Abbies getting priority for personal food requirements. The problem is that in Canada, there is no will to enforce this by the Feds, who have little if any concern for the issues in the West and this is true regardless of who is in power. What is needed is a little "come-to-Jesus" wake up call for the Feds and particularly the SCC of the dire situation for Pacific Salmonids and that ALL parties need to be cut back drastically. I personally believe that unless there is significant enforcement of the rules, properly backed by the Feds and ultimately the SCC with extremely little lattitude for interpretation, salmon returns up the Fraser are doomed.

 

[agentaqua]

Yet they do it every day, I see guys I grew up with posting pics on Facebook bragging about catch and full smoke houses.

My understanding 3x5 - was that it was closed for sockeye and open for Chinook for FSC fishing: http://vancouversun.com/business/lo...orecast-at-all-time-low-sports-fishing-closed

 

[Whitebuck]

AA, Have u ever fished the Skeena or been to the area?

 

[agentaqua]

Yep.

 

[Admin]

Going to clean this thread up right now as it has skewed completely off track. Stick to factual information regarding the subject at hand. We are never going to get into a discussion about race or other politically based topics on this fishing forum.

 

[Admin]

There has been lots of leeway given on this thread until it deviated into a conversation that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. You may not agree with openings for fishing and those views were allowed to be expressed. Factual information has been posted with no problems arising. Insinuating that people are doing something illegal without valid proof falls into a different category and needs to be addressed with the proper authorities. As for the conversation of whether or not there should be a right to fish for FSC, that is completely political and will never be solved here so once again, take it up with those who may be able to affect change, but don't expect it to survive here, as it will only lead to a fight.
This will be the last post addressing this.

 

[agentaqua]

Lodge owner says business at risk after 'crazy' federal decision to close sockeye fishing on the Pitt River
Larry Pynn
More from Larry Pynn
Published on: August 18, 2016
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-...on-to-close-sockeye-fishing-on-the-pitt-river

 

[Whitebuck]

Great article lol....love the last sentence of it!!
FN closed for salmon Fraser!!!??
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html

 

[agentaqua]

Mid-Season BC Salmon Update
Posted by Trish Hall on August 15, 2017
By Greg Taylor, Senior Fisheries Advisor
https://www.watershed-watch.org/201...mon-update/?sp_ref=328601276.392.182716.f.0.2

 

[Whitebuck]

Neither article wants to address the daily in river netting. Typical people who dont want to or dont know whats actually going on with the Fraser.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Neither article wants to address the daily in river netting. Typical people who dont want to or dont know whats actually going on with the Fraser.

Due to a Supreme Court of Canada Ruling these is nothing we can do about that. We had our change to take a better deal and instead were greedy and push it to the Supreme Court and they ended up ruling way in the Natives favor. It would now have to go back to the Supreme Court to be challenged.

Whitebuck you also forgot

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFOpenTimes-eng.pdf

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFPrevOpenTimes-eng.pdf

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html

 

[Whitebuck]

Didnt forget...just get tired of posting for the blind and those with their heads in the sand.
FYI...I spend a lot of time with the Upper and mid Fraser bands and I 100% support them and their use of traditional methods. Almost zero gill and set netting above Boston Bar.