Fog ,Radar , Dying

[Islander57]

I do not have radar, wished I did a few times. I was hali fishing last weekend in the fog. There were lots of boats anchored around me in the Mud Hole, I heard many fog horns on ships, felt the wakes pass, I took pics and swore at a couple tankers, when fog lifted and we could see them, not sure if my aluminum top shows up as a contact for them. My question is; do the commercial huge tankers stay in the shipping lanes? The answer is NO, they were steaming right between all the anchored hali boats, VERY close to some anchor balls behind me. I was well over a mile NW of the shipping lanes according to my GPS plotter. I will ask Beamer to chime in on regs. I think this issue goes both ways, I am 100% sure us hali fishers were far from the outbound shipping lane yet ships passed in front and behind me and thru the hali fleet. WTH Sorry pic is flipped.

HMView attachment 44905 View attachment 44904 View attachment 44904

Sorry if you don't like my comment, but if you are going to anchor up even close to a shipping lane, and fog is present or immanent, then you might want to re-think your tactics. If you are going to fish like this, I might suggest instead of anchoring, you may want to opt to drift, and have the ability to bug out quickly if need be. Anchoring anywhere near a shipping lane, or where ships may divert from the shipping lane is a disaster just waiting to happen. Is halibut worth that risk to you????

 

[brutus]

Sorry if you don't like my comment, but if you are going to anchor up even close to a shipping lane, and fog is present or immanent, then you might want to re-think your tactics. If you are going to fish like this, I might suggest instead of anchoring, you may want to opt to drift, and have the ability to bug out quickly if need be. Anchoring anywhere near a shipping lane, or where ships may divert from the shipping lane is a disaster just waiting to happen. Is halibut worth that risk to you????

Also illegal to impead safe passage of ships,and not that shatp

 

[halimark]

Sorry if you don't like my comment, but if you are going to anchor up even close to a shipping lane, and fog is present or immanent, then you might want to re-think your tactics. If you are going to fish like this, I might suggest instead of anchoring, you may want to opt to drift, and have the ability to bug out quickly if need be. Anchoring anywhere near a shipping lane, or where ships may divert from the shipping lane is a disaster just waiting to happen. Is halibut worth that risk to you????

Not a matter of liking any post. I spent 33 years at sea on large ships and still believe that in this day and age we all need to share equally. Ever enter Hong Kong, Penang, Shanghai? All get along and without Radar, not fog but smog is predominant. If a fisherperson anchors in a shipping lane they are an idiot, conversely shipping lanes are there for safety reasons, if a tanker sails NM outside of a shipping lane crossing thru the anchored fishing fleet to save time and money they are idiots. I am not talking about one offs, tanker needs to divert due to engine issue or anchorage or fisherman anchors due to same engine issue. These large ships sailed thru us for no apparent reason with clear outbound lanes 2 HM to the East, nobody was close to the shipping lanes, and only 3 of maybe 12 did, the rest stayed in the shipping lane a few miles away.

Guess you have not fished hali in JDF as drifting only works seldom, so much junk on bottom to take your gear and currents would not allow your bait to hit many days. Your statement in summer would stop all sport fishing boats without radar, sockeye are way out, and its foggy daily. Do we not fish? No go the speed to be safe, pay attention to your surroundings and enjoy. Not long ago there were very few sport fishing vessels with radar, every one got along. There needs to be no more reason to stop our sport, both sides playing by the safety rules will continue to allow us to play. Vic traffic has gotten substantially busier on both sides, tons more sporties after hali and tons more commercial traffic. Both sides need to be smart and stay safe.

HM

 

[searun]

I think there needs to be a rule change...no running in fog without radar, period. Its just not worth it. Anchoring in fog without radar and AIS so you can also track the large vessels and get out of their way well ahead of time is a recipe for disaster as evidenced by those photos of how close the freighter got. AIS lets you see their projected track and calculate the risk of collision....I can see them coming 5 miles away and determine if their track puts me at risk. Love AIS. Also everyone needs to understand Marine law....those large vessels have the right of way, we have to yield and get out of their way per the collision rules.

 

[halimark]

I think there needs to be a rule change...no running in fog without radar, period. Its just not worth it. Anchoring in fog without radar and AIS so you can also track the large vessels and get out of their way well ahead of time is a recipe for disaster as evidenced by those photos of how close the freighter got. AIS lets you see their projected track and calculate the risk of collision....I can see them coming 5 miles away and determine if their track puts me at risk. Love AIS. Also everyone needs to understand Marine law....those large vessels have the right of way, we have to yield and get out of their way per the collision rules.

You work for FEDs? Want our numbers and sport to be dead faster? What would mandatory radar do to our already dwindling numbers? Don't think, local marinas would like "no launching without radar" as all summer here in Vic its foggy daily in JDF. Not sure about accident numbers but guessing thousands of boats anchor every year in the fog without radar, very few incidents. Guessing tankers have that technology and more, maybe they know how many feet they can pass us in the FOG while shortcutting OUTSIDE the shipping lanes. Even multi billion dollar warships with more than radar hit things (been there). Just need to slow down and be safe. We have enough dumb rules already. Even guys with radar can be dumb. Time for common sense, not more laws.

HM

 

[brutus]

You work for FEDs? Want our numbers and sport to be dead faster? What would mandatory radar do to our already dwindling numbers? Don't think, local marinas would like "no launching without radar" as all summer here in Vic its foggy daily in JDF. Not sure about accident numbers but guessing thousands of boats anchor every year in the fog without radar, very few incidents. Guessing tankers have that technology and more, maybe they know how many feet they can pass us in the FOG while shortcutting OUTSIDE the shipping lanes. Even multi billion dollar warships with more than radar hit things (been there). Just need to slow down and be safe. We have enough dumb rules already. Even guys with radar can be dumb. Time for common sense, not more laws.

HM

Common sense is not there in lot of case,putting yourseft in a sketchy situation is not common sense, its like driving in a snow storm at night with no winter tires and headlights. Radar ,Ais, if your going to go out in the fog is common sense

 

[halimark]

Not to bring up an old thread but WTH. Out for the derby today, even managed a couple but not derby size. Almost got run over by a big ship. No fog, NOT in shipping lanes, ship did NOT go to anchorage but did proceed south then west in JDF, visibility was horizon. Dam A-Hole altered course and sailed right thru the whole hali derby anchored boats. Look in pic. Ship was a cable tender so no excuse not knowing where they were. Better positioning equipment than any other ships. Displayed Union Jack, ship called "London"? Look at pics, ship in background was in lanes, in my mind this idiot deliberately gave me the pucker/wholly **** get the knife in case we start going fast. There is a song by Bruce Cockburn that defiantly came up today. Probably a reason we cant own them. A discharge would have happened today. Why would they even risk doing such a dumb thing to a family? Got the whole dam ocean, nobody was in "their" lanes.

 

[bottom feeder]

jesus christ that is close !!!!!!!!!! was out on sat in the derby for a couple hours at the horseshoe in oak bay before we got blown off but like halimark said we saw guys in rough seas with strong winds actually anchoring in the shipping lanes?????? for what - a halibut ???? if you got into trouble on sat where we were you were in big trouble !!! not worth it!!!! common sense !! live to fish another day

 

[searun]

jesus christ that is close !!!!!!!!!! was out on sat in the derby for a couple hours at the horseshoe in oak bay before we got blown off but like halimark said we saw guys in rough seas with strong winds actually anchoring in the shipping lanes?????? for what - a halibut ???? if you got into trouble on sat where we were you were in big trouble !!! not worth it!!!! common sense !! live to fish another day

Couldn't agree more...no fish is worth your life. Common sense says follow the rules...large commercial vessels have the right of way and if those of us insist on anchoring in the shipping lanes it will lead to area closures because a few individuals didn't bother to use common sense and follow the rules - which are there for all of our safety. As for anyone wandering out on a foggy day without radar...you are crazy.

 

[halimark]

Couldn't agree more...no fish is worth your life. Common sense says follow the rules...large commercial vessels have the right of way and if those of us insist on anchoring in the shipping lanes it will lead to area closures because a few individuals didn't bother to use common sense and follow the rules - which are there for all of our safety. As for anyone wandering out on a foggy day without radar...you are crazy.

As long as you understand that NOT any of the 30 boats that dam crazy A hole drove thru was any where near the shipping lanes. Again I wont make any statement too the Oak bay boats referenced as I was not there. I was there today for this idiots unsafe crap. Don't think commercial traffic should have free reign of our coastlines. That's only for the Navy.

HM

 

[mayday]

Just to be clear though - from a rules perspective, there is no such thing as "commercial rights", or size or tanker vs small - ONLY if a vessel is restricted in it's ability to maneauver, or in a shipping channel - if neither of those apply, than standard Colregs apply - so if a big tanker is not in a shipping lane, or not in a narrow channel, then potentially a 10' runabout is the stand-on vessel (depending on heading) - that doesn't mean you can't be "right" and still dead, but it does help to at least know the "rules"

 

[searun]

Might is right anywhere...on land or sea. You are 100% correct on that. Let's think also for a moment about the location we are talking about here...its in one of the busiest traffic separation approach/egress areas on our coast. Literally 1000's of vessels transiting in all weather conditions. Fog is an especially dangerous situation, requiring considerable due diligence IMO. Couple of Rules to consider here:

Rule 9

Narrow Channels—International (a) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable. (b) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway. (c) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway. (d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel. (e) (i) In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking can take place

Rule 10 Traffic Separation Schemes—International (copied relevant sections)

A vessel navigating in areas near the terminations of traffic separation schemes shall do so with particular caution. (g) A vessel shall so far as practicable avoid anchoring in a traffic separation scheme or in areas near its terminations. (h) A vessel not using a traffic separation scheme shall avoid it by as wide a margin as is practicable. (i) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any vessel following a traffic lane. (j) A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.

Rule 40 - Radar Reflectors

(a) Subject to paragraph (b), a vessel that is less than 20 metres in length or is constructed primarily of non-metallic materials shall be equipped with a passive radar reflector. (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply where (i) a vessel operates in limited traffic conditions, daylight, and favourable environmental conditions and where compliance is not essential for the safety of the vessel, or (ii) the small size of the vessel or its operation away from radar navigation makes compliance impracticable. (c) The radar reflector prescribed in paragraph (a) shall, (i) be capable of performance through 360 degrees of azimuth and responsive to a radar frequency of 9.3 GHz (corresponding wave length 3.2 centimetres), (ii) have an equivalent echoing area of 10 square metres measured perpendicularly to the main radar lobes, (iii) be mounted or suspended higher than the superstructures and, if practicable, at a height of not less than four metres above the water, (iv) be positioned and painted so as not to be visually prominent, (v) be capable of maintaining its performance under the conditions of sea states, vibration, humidity and change of temperature likely to be experienced in the marine environment, and (vi) be clearly marked so as to indicate any preferred orientation of mounting. (d) The azimuthal polar diagram of the radar reflector prescribed in paragraph (a) shall have a response not less than minus 6 dB with reference to the maxima of the main radar lobes (i) over a total angle of 240 degrees, and (ii) within any arc of more than 10 degrees.

 

[mayday]

Riiiiiiight, so we agree that a tanker OUTSIDE of a shipping lane, and not in a narrow channel, doesn't have any "rights" from a rules perspective? No different than a semi at a 4-way stop - depending on the conditions he still has to give way to the smart car - doesn't make the little car any less dead if things go wrong, but again from a rules perspective............

 

[tinboatrobb]

The ship us called Cable Innovator, it is based in London and was heading from Ogden point to port angels. Did you contact the ship on your vhf and ask what the captain was thinking? Just curious.

 

[halimark]

No never called ship to ask. Did yell a few vulgarities to the persons looking down on us. Port Angeles is far to the East of us and way further east of the shipping lanes, that proves my point even more that they are A-holes. Why not stay in the outgoing lanes then turn East? They had even less reason to transit south 2 miles WEST of the outbound lanes deliberately transiting thru not only us but the other 20 anchored boats.

Not sure why Searun keeps mentioning Fog. Today's visibility was to horizon. No sane reason to pass thru us all with open lanes to the east, especially when his destination was east.

HM

 

[Islander57]

Maybe it's just me, but if I was watching any ship approaching, knowing it was coming very close to where I was anchored, I would simply pull up anchor and get out of the way. But....that's just me.

 

[brutus]

Maybe it's just me, but if I was watching any ship approaching, knowing it was coming very close to where I was anchored, I would simply pull up anchor and get out of the way. But....that's just me.

Smart move lol

 

[brutus]

Smart move lol

Quick release clips, 20$ at the local marine store, saved my life a few times.

 

[Islander57]

Quick release clips, 20$ at the local marine store, saved my life a few times.

This is the second set of pictures HM has posted of ships passing very close to where he was anchored up. In this instance, as he said, visibility was to the horizon. I think rather than watching a ship approaching that close and taking pictures of it, airing on the side of caution would be to simply pull anchor and get out of the way. As much as I like halibut, I'm not going to risk getting run over just because I think I'm right. JMO.

 

[seadog19]

off race rocks / at 90 degrees to light is change over to Victoria traffic vhf ch 11, ( inbound) outbound and all of juan de fuca and gulf across south of constance bank that is seattle traffic zone channel 05a for all commercial ….. in the case of the cable layer in the picture.. if he is heading to port angles, then he is going straight across to pick up a pilot..